Jump starting issues with SRS ECU - 2013 FIAT Ducato 3.0L (1 Viewer)

Feb 15, 2021
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Hi All
Just joined this forum and rejoined the Motorhome fraternity after more than 20 years caravanning. However I have a problem which I have researched to the nth degree here and on other web forums. I have also contacted FIAT dealerships and my suppling dealer.
The issue partly being I was unable to visit the motorhome in storage for a few months over the winter period following an injury / operation and when I did the battery was flat and it needed to be jump started. This I did with a power pack following best practise (and FIAT Manual recommendations) connecting the the provided positive terminal under the bonnet and a suitable earth. The vehicle started quite easily with the booster and we allowed it to charge some from the alternator having removed the booster. Unfortunately I was unable to take the motorhome from storage so had to leave it in the storage.
I should say at this point the starter battery was brand new when I purchased the motorhome last July 2020.
After a couple more weeks I felt okay to fetch the motorhome from storage back tour house. Again the battery was flat and it needed a booster jump start. Again the vehicle started fairly easily and we disconnected the booster all set and we were ready to go. However there was bleeping from the dashboard and the airbag light would not go out!!! To cut a long story short I followed advices on here and removed the said unit and off it went to "CrashData" (great team) who were unable to fix as it was beyond repair. A new one was despatched and duly fitted. All good now. As an aside I was quoted approx £600 from a local dealer and was informed the warranty did not cover this type of incident. It took me 10 minutes and cost £350 ish.
Since then the motorhome has been at our home address hooked up to the mains and I have installed a battery optimiser / maintainer to look after the starter battery. We would much prefer the motorhome to be in the storage centre but cannot afford another incident.

Now here are the questions :-
1 - How do I stop this happening again if I need to jump start the motorhome? Expensive if the battery goes flat and this seems to be a regular issue motorhomes suffer with.
2 - Is there a real-life solution to flat starter batteries on motorhomes which have been left for several weeks without hook up and or starting? There again is a lot of sometimes confusing and conflicting advice on here. Please don't say disconnect the battery as this is not a satisfactory solution - no alarm = no insurance!

FYI I have a solar panel managed by a Sargent control unit etc... I also have an alarm / immobiliser fitted which I am told only draws a nominal current when armed.

Any help would be appreciated to try and solve this potential recurring issue or have I just been unlucky this time?
 

Ivory55

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On the Sargent panel there is a button to choose leisure or van battery, this would get more solar in to the van battery, but solar doesn’t do a lot in the winter
 
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Tombola

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get a battery master, leave your solar charging the leisure battery and the battery master will keep the cab battery topped up.

Don't you also have a switch under your sargent panel that allows solar charging to select leisure or cab ?

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Aug 26, 2008
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1 - How do I stop this happening again if I need to jump start the motorhome? Expensive if the battery goes flat and this seems to be a regular issue motorhomes suffer with.

A bit extreme perhaps but removing the Airbag SRS module when the MH goes into storage avoids the risk that it will be FUBARed if you need to jump start the MH.
 
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Aug 7, 2020
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Why wouldn't the warranty cover it..mine is booked in to fiat dealer with similar problem? Was hoping to get it done under warranty?
 
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TheBig1

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I would be thinking about unplugging the airbag ecu if the van will sit a long time in storage. And add a piece of sticky neoprene rubber just uphill of the ecu to divert any condensate from trickling over and into the ecu from the windscreen

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Jun 12, 2016
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A bit extreme perhaps but removing the Airbag SRS module when the MH goes into storage avoids the risk that it will be FUBARed if you need to jump start the MH.
Do this and you are going to likely have issue with the vehicle ECU which will need reset by dealer
When you have the airbag module away for repair you are told not to start the vehicle
 
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Dec 16, 2017
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I was told that when jump starting don't rush it. Connect up the two vehicles then leave the 'donor' vehicle running at a fast tickover for at least 5 minutes before trying to start. This allows a bit of charge to be put back into the flat battery and allows voltages to equalise and give a better chance of success on first attempt.
Otherwise there can be an issue whereby if the leisure battery is low as well, as the vehicle with the flat battery turns over its enough to open the charging relay. As a result the alternator immediately "sees" a need to charge both batteries and ramps up the current, which can then overload items such as elektobloks, sargeants etc., as well as the alternator.
Maybe wrong on the details, but I jumped our van a few times due to lockdown non use before we fitted a battery master and the waiting trick worked for us. YMMV of course.
 
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Feb 21, 2016
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If the battery has been flat half it’s short life it may be damaged beyond repair,so needs to be checked by charging and seeing how it behaves.

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Oct 10, 2018
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Is it possible that the solar setting on the Sargent control is set incorrectly and is not allowing the smart charging feature to operate allowing it to keep all batteries charged up as it should.
The operation of this system is listed in the Resources section of this site if you do not have it.
 
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tarw24
Feb 15, 2021
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Thank you for all the advices, I will try and update all here.
The sargent unit is set up correctly following a telephone call with their tech team - very helpful thanks - it is worth checking this. I also have the download operation manual thanks.
Not an option to keep disconnecting the ECU, as noted in the thread this could upset the main ECU and would need a visit to FIAT - more money!
Luckily the Battery is all okay since the addition of a battery optimiser and I have been disconnecting from the mains for a few days and no problems starting the vehicle. The optimiser quickly returning to maintenance mode when hooked back up.
RE the waiting for some charge from the starting vehicle - this was not an option as I was using a booster which I did leave connected for a few minutes before starting (not sure of this does anything though?) There should not be any issues with power surges and or voltages with a booster unit though!
WRT the warranty booth my supplying dealer, FIAT dealer and the warranty company say not a warranty issue, however I intend to challenge and will report back.

It seems I have done all the correct things BUT:-
1 - The issue remains of the starter battery going flat if left in storage with no hook up - I have looked at getting another solar panel to just charge the starter battery. However as stated earlier in this thread the solar reliance is poor at best during the winter (Ivory55).
2 - The jump starting is basically lottery as to whether or not it will crash the ECU again!

Thanks again for all your help and contributions.
 
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Oct 10, 2018
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Would it be possible to set the solar to the starter battery when in storage and then isolate the habitation battery via the Sargent ECU as I think this battery does not drain very much normally.
The other alternative is ,as suggested, to fit a Vanbitz battery master linking the batteries, their website describes its operation very well and it is very easy to fit.
my solar set up, 100watt ,keeps my starter and 2 x habitation batteries topped up ok during the winter.

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Gellyneck

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On the Sargent panel there is a button to choose leisure or van battery, this would get more solar in to the van battery, but solar doesn’t do a lot in the winter

Where is the airbag module located?

slightly right and in front of the passengers feet under the cover ( on a Ducato )

thanks ,mines a Peugeot but will have a look tomorrow .(y)
Ours is offset slightly to the right of the centre line partly hidden by a removable panel below the centre opening storage box. Closer to the driver's left foot if a right-hand drive model.
Why wouldn't the warranty cover it..mine is booked in to fiat dealer with similar problem? Was hoping to get it done under warranty?
Flat battery, and consequential issues, is \ are not covered under warranty.
Is it possible that the solar setting on the Sargent control is set incorrectly and is not allowing the smart charging feature to operate allowing it to keep all batteries charged up as it should.
The operation of this system is listed in the Resources section of this site if you do not have it.
As you say there is a setting in the control panel to set charging to various options, vehicle, leisure, Smart, etc however this only works, according to Sargent, on EHU on a 2013 model FIAT. When on solar panel it defaults back to leisure only. That's not what I read in the manual though! Think he also mentioned this may have been changed in later models.
When we had the same airbag ECU issue Sargent recommended putting the PSU (EC500) into shutdown as that killed any power draw from the leisure battery and look to minimise the draw on the vehicle battery as much as possible. The only draw we have is from the ECU and the alarm \ trackers and, touching wood furiously, we seem to be able to get up to 2 months before vehicle battery gets down to 12.2-12.4v which is, I believe, around 60-70% charge.
Solar seems to keep leisure at 12.6-12.7v.
 
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tarw24
Feb 15, 2021
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Okay another update following along an informative discussion with a FIAT commercial technician.
Re the starter battery going flat when in storage - there should only be a max 20mA drain on the battery when vehicle turned off and key removed. Mine is approx 18mA. This therefore would basically discharge a battery below starter capacity in about a month! Not a solution but good to know!
WRT the jump starting and ECU damage risk - there should be no risk if the correct procedure is followed:-
Locate the positive jump starting terminal under the bonnet - see photo. Connect the RED jumper cable to this.
Locate the earth / ground lug attached the the chassis at the front bonnet cross member - see photo. connect the BLACK jumper cable to this.
The vehicle should then jump start with no problems unless there are other technical issues present, without affecting the ECU's etc...
Failure to connect at these points may lead to battery, wiring and or ECU damage - for clarity this is exactly what I did.
It appears I was unlucky and this was a coincidental failure at the point of jump starting the vehicle and there must have been an underlying issue with the ECU.

So fingers crossed all round if I have to jump start the vehicle again.
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I have a 2013 Auto-Trail Mohawk with a EC500 PSU and a EC480 control panel. Over the years I have tried every option to maintain the hab and vehicle batteries. I found the most effective way is to shut down the EC500 with the black button and then all solar is directed automatically to the hab batteries, this removes the parasitic drain of the EC500 PSU saving valuable power. The vehicle battery is kept topped up by the Hab batteries via a Vanbitz battery master. Historically while in storage even with solar I needed to put he van on charge a few times over the winter months. This winter I haven't needed to do it at all and both hab batteries and the vehicle battery are fully charged.

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Unless you need the battery for a tracker if it is in safe storage why not disconnect the engine battery by removing the earth lead. The immobiliser and clock will make a drain on the battery. Most compounds I have worked on motorhomes in there is no benefit to the alarm as it is a controlled environment.
 
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tarw24
Feb 15, 2021
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ttarw24 , Have you confirmed that the solar panel / solar controller are working as they should be ?
To the best of my ability - all the settings are correct and the Tab batteries have been fine. The issue being through the darker months the starter battery has suffered.It is not a straight split charge as it favours the Hab. batteries.FYI I have 2 Has. batteries so they take some up keep when the sun doesn't shine.
Actually maybe the solar panel as installed is not up to the job!! good point I will check this out also.
Gives me something to do other that get under the wife's feet :LOL:

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Sep 3, 2012
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Hi Jimbo, Jean here from Crash Data. I have dropped some removal instructions for you below.
Please feel free to give us a call if you would like to have a chat about your airbag module.
Thanks,I don't have an issue ,I was just at curious to know where it was, for future reference.
Thanks for the info and picture .I will check as I seem to have more connections on the cab battery than you show. (y)

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SandraL

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A lot of motorhomes have solar panels that charge the cab battery. Just removing the starter batt earth lead will not unpower the cab and seatbelt ecu without disconnecting or covering the solar panel.
 
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A lot of motorhomes have solar panels that charge the cab battery. Just removing the starter batt earth lead will not unpower the cab and seatbelt ecu without disconnecting or covering the solar panel.
Could you explain why power is still at the ecu when the battery is disconnected and a short time delay please to allow ecu to come to rest.
I changed my air bag ecu with no issues by doing that and I have 140w solar.
 
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Gellyneck

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Thanks,I don't have an issue ,I was just at curious to know where it was, for future reference.
Thanks for the info and picture .I will check as I seem to have more connections on the cab battery than you show. (y)
You'll have a number connected to the positive terminal which don't show in the photo. We've got about half a dozen of them.

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SandraL

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Could you explain why power is still at the ecu when the battery is disconnected and a short time delay please to allow ecu to come to rest.
I changed my air bag ecu with no issues by doing that and I have 140w solar.
If your solar has the facility to charge the starter battery it will still supply power to the cab electronics as in most cases the leisure battery earth and the solar regulator earth are connected to the chassis, so there is a circuit from solar controller to chassis to ecu earth via chassis.
The other, charging, lead is connected from the solar controller to the starter battery, the end with all the fuses. So there is, if the sun is shining, 12v supply to the cab.
Just removing the earth cable from starter battery will not stop this circuit.
Im sure many have removed the ecu successfully without disconnecting their solar charge circuit, but there will probably be a few that didnt.
 
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Oct 29, 2008
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My airbag ecu failed, and the battery was fine as kept charged by solar.
Fiat replaced the exu for free, I paid labour only. My van was 4 years old.
 
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Aug 7, 2020
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Jezport did the dealer offer you this or did you have to contact Fiat yourself? My Fiat dealer is doing this but charging £400
 
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