Is your Ford roadside recovery policy worthless? (1 Viewer)

[x17ken]

I would think that most recovery agents will have access to the various databases eg VED, MOT etc. Poorly worded but they will be able to tell if you have paid it or not!

I'm sure you are right on this. But the law in the UK when we had tax discs said that it was an offence to "fail to display" your disc. Thankfully we have now moved on and access to databases is available to prove you have paid your VED without having a bit of paper stuck to your windscreen. Unfortunately the wording of the policy seems to be out of date on this point. However it might still be relevant in other EU countries' "road fund" arrangements. I would welcome views on this.

 

[Stoosal]

I'm sure you are right on this. But the law in the UK when we had tax discs said that it was an offence to "fail to display" your disc. Thankfully we have now moved on and access to databases is available to prove you have paid your VED without having a bit of paper stuck to your windscreen. Unfortunately the wording of the policy seems to be out of date on this point. However it might still be relevant in other EU countries' "road fund" arrangements. I would welcome views on this.

As long as vehicle complies with laws of home country it should be ok….ie if law in uk means you don’t need to display then ok in other countries. You couldn’t display what you don’t have. If it was ever an issue you could always show them online

 

[gus-lopez]

However it might still be relevant in other EU countries' "road fund" arrangements.

No 'tax discs' here in spain.
We have "Permiso de circulación" for which each local council sets its own amount. Your ITV (MOT) is only valid if you have paid for the years 'Permiso'. Or it might be the 'Permiso' is only valid if you have a current ITV?

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[Sandancers]

As long as vehicle complies with laws of home country it should be ok….ie if law in uk means you don’t need to display then ok in other countries. You couldn’t display what you don’t have. If it was ever an issue you could always show them online

I'd disagree with a bit of the above. You can run tyres in the UK down to a lower tread than lawful in France, so if a French cop stopped you and examined your tyres they would be unimpressed with, "But they are OK with the laws of UK matey."

 

[x17ken]

I hate to say this because of another can of worms - Its OK in UK law to flat tow a car behind your MoHo. Ask a French cop if its OK in his country because its OK in the UK. I know..I know... but I couldn't resist

 

[Stoosal]

I'd disagree with a bit of the above. You can run tyres in the UK down to a lower tread than lawful in France, so if a French cop stopped you and examined your tyres they would be unimpressed with, "But they are OK with the laws of UK matey."

I meant in relation to ved but take you’re point.

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[x17ken]

No 'tax discs' here in spain.
We have "Permiso de circulación" for which each local council sets its own amount. Your ITV (MOT) is only valid if you have paid for the years 'Permiso'. Or it might be the 'Permiso' is only valid if you have a current ITV?

I don't want to go too far off-piste with this point, but Gus-lopez poses a very good question here. In the UK you cannot pay VED (road tax) unless you can satisfy basic road safety requirements - ie. you have insurance (3rd party minimum) and have passed MOT checks if your vehicle is over 3 years old. If you cannot satisfy these conditions you must scrap or declare off-the-road (SORN). Historically the VED disc on your windscreen was visible proof that you were road safe and entitled to have your vehicle on the public highway. I suspect in Spain that the road safety check (MOT) is also a pre-requisite to the Permiso. Why would you pay the Permiso if you were not legal on the road? I'm surprised that there isn't also an insurance requirement in Spain before paying the Permiso - perhaps Gus can clarify on this point. Coming back the original point. In the UK we don't need to prove on our road worthiness with a paper disc in the windscreen any more. The annual re-registration of our on the road safety with the DVLA is still happening but it is all done electronically, and our vehicles' status is available instantly to approved agencies. Insurance policies should be updated to reflect this to remove the silly possibility that your claim might be rejected because of a failure to comply with an out of date legal requirement for visible windscreen display.

 

[yvonneid]

I contacted Ford Commercial Customer Services yesterday. This was their reply. I'll be cancelling my 5 year "service" with them, which is only really a check, but I thought I had Ford Service Activated Recovery with it, and indeed with every service I've had done at AM Phillip in Broxburn! Fortunately, as I say, I also have Nationwide Recovery. For all it costs I may also restart my recovery plan with Comfort when I renew my insurance in May. At least they don't seem to have hidden conditions. I'm actually seething about the Ford situation, but truthfully, not that surprised really. It seems that from all angles we're stuck with what they (don't) offer after they have our money. I love my van and it probably wouldn't prevent me buying another Ford because, by all accounts, other manufacturers are just the same!

 

[PaulandAngie]

Current update from my initial email to both Ford and the AA. Response back from Ford basically says please contact the AA. The response back from the AA says please contact Ford! I have resent the email to a different address and will follow up with a call midweek. As far as the maximum weight is concerned the log book says revenue weight of 3500kg and the Benimar plate in the engine says the same irrespective of the Ford sticker on the door pillar so my query will be the length restriction for now. If you have a recent Ford base vehicle and they have become popular across the manufacturers recently please add your weight to this issue, we are all in this together. Thank you.

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[gus-lopez]

I'm surprised that there isn't also an insurance requirement in Spain before paying the Permiso - perhaps Gus can clarify on this point.

Theoretically you are required to show insurance when booking in for your ITV(mot) but I have never been asked.
At present your ITV pass comes with a 'sticker for the windscreen showing when it has to be tested next . The intention is to do away with the sticker in the next few years & you will have to show it on your phone if asked.
The 'permiso' is supplied by your local council & payment is to them & as said the rate varies between council to council in a region & between regions.

 

[x17ken]

Current update from my initial email to both Ford and the AA. Response back from Ford basically says please contact the AA. The response back from the AA says please contact Ford! I have resent the email to a different address and will follow up with a call midweek. As far as the maximum weight is concerned the log book says revenue weight of 3500kg and the Benimar plate in the engine says the same irrespective of the Ford sticker on the door pillar so my query will be the length restriction for now. If you have a recent Ford base vehicle and they have become popular across the manufacturers recently please add your weight to this issue, we are all in this together. Thank you.

A very unsatisfactory response from both organisations. Hopefully your follow-up will get a more considered response. When I phoned the AA in relation to my breakdown they immediately checked the DVLA record. My revenue weight was higher than 3500kg hence their initial refusal to provide support. I explained that it was the same vehicle as was registered when new. They then asked for me to send a photo of the Ford plate on the door pillar. I did just that and that's when I was told that the 3550kg was outside their max for recovery. I really appreciate your help on this and I will follow up as necessary when you have got a written response. Like you and others here I am very unhappy about the uncertainty around this - so much so that I signed up for the Nationwide Flex account on the weekend for additional peace of mind.

 

[Platelet]

A very unsatisfactory response from both organisations. Hopefully your follow-up will get a more considered response. When I phoned the AA in relation to my breakdown they immediately checked the DVLA record. My revenue weight was higher than 3500kg hence their initial refusal to provide support. I explained that it was the same vehicle as was registered when new. They then asked for me to send a photo of the Ford plate on the door pillar. I did just that and that's when I was told that the 3550kg was outside their max for recovery. I really appreciate your help on this and I will follow up as necessary when you have got a written response. Like you and others here I am very unhappy about the uncertainty around this - so much so that I signed up for the Nationwide Flex account on the weekend for additional peace of mind.

Could that possibly bring up a C1 issue?

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[x17ken]

Could that possibly bring up a C1 issue?

This is a really good question. Converters of motorhomes specify the limits of vehicle gross weight post-conversion. The weights must be under the maximum weights specified on the underlying vehicle by Ford, Fiat, Mercedes etc. Converters down-plate to increase their potential customers - ie to include those with ordinary driving licences without higher weight entitlements. When they do this they give very little consideration to living with a vehicle with an impractical payload limit -but that's a separate point. Their objective is to sell motorhomes to the widest possible market.
Driving licence entitlements are earned through testing. If you are driving a vehicle on an ordinary driving licence without grandfather rights (C1 etc.) or separate testing for higher weight vehicles, technically you can be outside the law by reference to the the plate of the vehicle manufacturer. But converters can and do override the vehicle plate by defining a lower weight maximum. This is ok. It's within the law - until you come up against a recovery organisation that is concerned about the vehicle plate not the converters reduced weight plate.

 

[PaulandAngie]

Still waiting on a reply after escalating with both the AA and Ford Assistance. Reality is the initial communications are fended off through the customer service teams who have absultely no clue, don't read emails and resend the original terms and conditions after insisting that the vehicle is registered by the letter writer before moving forward! Comical service from both so far. We will be either insuring with the RAC or Caravan club for their respective relays which comes at a significant cost but our peace of mind. I will however persevere because someone in their organisations needs to realise that they have sold a service that is not available, highlighting the fact that they dont cover their current vehicles.

Hopefully a sensible reply soon!.

 

[CRD]

Ford 3550kgs but that plate has been superceded. My profile should explain why this is a topic I am reasonably knowledgable about. I am currently in the process of up-plating. Going to 4000kgs would not increase axle weights so having had air suspension fitted on the rear and changing the tyres to 119/121 I have applied for increase to 4100kgs which increases axle 2 by 180kgs. Once that's complete and the new plate is on I will look at someone like Red Pennant for my breakdown/recovery.

Just picking up on this comment from a few weeks ago.

If the converters plate says 3500Kg and supersedes the manufacturers plate, then it sounds like the weight of 3500Kg should have been stated on the Certificate of Conformity and that is what should be used to register the van with the DVLA.

It sounds like your DVLA details should show 3500Kg, but then, of course, your road tax would increase.

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[K9Motorhomers]

Just picking up on this comment from a few weeks ago.

If the converters plate says 3500Kg and supersedes the manufacturers plate, then it sounds like the weight of 3500Kg should have been stated on the Certificate of Conformity and that is what should be used to register the van with the DVLA.

It sounds like your DVLA details should show 3500Kg, but then, of course, your road tax would increase.

3500kgs is stated on C of C (Swift). V5 states 3500kgs. Tax always been £325. Now up-plated to 4100kgs and tax £165

 

[CRD]

Sorry, I was referring to x17ken 's vehicle, using your comment.

 

[K9Motorhomers]

Sorry, I was referring to x17ken 's vehicle, using your comment.

Ah ok no problem

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[Platelet]

This is a really good question. Converters of motorhomes specify the limits of vehicle gross weight post-conversion. The weights must be under the maximum weights specified on the underlying vehicle by Ford, Fiat, Mercedes etc. Converters down-plate to increase their potential customers - ie to include those with ordinary driving licences without higher weight entitlements. When they do this they give very little consideration to living with a vehicle with an impractical payload limit -but that's a separate point. Their objective is to sell motorhomes to the widest possible market.
Driving licence entitlements are earned through testing. If you are driving a vehicle on an ordinary driving licence without grandfather rights (C1 etc.) or separate testing for higher weight vehicles, technically you can be outside the law by reference to the the plate of the vehicle manufacturer. But converters can and do override the vehicle plate by defining a lower weight maximum. This is ok. It's within the law - until you come up against a recovery organisation that is concerned about the vehicle plate not the converters reduced weight plate.

That’s what I was getting at, if you’re stopped by the police which plate will they choose to enforce. They may choose the higher and you’ve got your MH impounded, 6 points for no insurance, license issues and recovery charges. In the UK you would probably argue your case in court but in Europe at the side of the road?

 

[Stoosal]

If there was any issue I would show them V5…….thats what the vehicle is registered as with DVLA surely?

If a new weight plate is used to the vehicle the previous one should be removed so there should only ever be the current valid one to see.

 

[K9Motorhomers]

If there was any issue I would show them V5…….thats what the vehicle is registered as with DVLA surely?

If a new weight plate is used to the vehicle the previous one should be removed so there should only ever be the current valid one to see.

Never remove any plate.

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[Stoosal]

Never remove any plate.

Apologies…….correct. The old plate remains and new one added.

 

[poppycamper]

Sorry for your dilemma,have you read the t&c's
AA I believe recover upto 7500.Check your paperwork and get back to them

Cheers

The AA are quite clear that they will not attend/recovery a motorhome or caravan over 3500kg.
The reason I reluctantly, after near 40yrs membership I went with Green Flag.... no size/weight limits...

 

[dunnah01]

The AA are quite clear that they will not attend/recovery a motorhome or caravan over 3500kg.
The reason I reluctantly, after near 40yrs membership I went with Green Flag.... no size/weight limits...

Somebody better tell FoMoCo then

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[Emmit]

I would think that most recovery agents will have access to the various databases eg VED, MOT etc. Poorly worded but they will be able to tell if you have paid it or not!

I think that this policy has changed since I bought my Ford.

I’m sure the limiting factor for me at the time was the 3500kgs limit, not the length. (That and the fact I would have had to travel 80 miles to the Ford main stealer and the difference in cost between local garage service and a Ford one meant it was more cost effective to take out a separate policy!)

I think the AA provided services to those with a Nationwide account and there were a few issues at the start with that until AA clarified weight and length dimensions relative to motorhomes. Hopefully this will be the same.

"
I think the AA provided services to those with a Nationwide account and there were a few issues at the start with that until AA clarified weight and length dimensions relative to motorhomes. Hopefully this will be the same."

We nearly fell foul of this when we had to call upon Breakdown services from NW.

The operator at the other end of the phone, after asking me the Gross of our van, (3700kgs) said we weren't
covered as it was over 3500kgs.

I pinned her to the back wall so to speak and told her that;
1. She should speak with a manager to clarify what she was telling me and ;
2. If they did not provide cover, I would organise this myself and send them the bill/
take them to the SCC in lieu. (This is not a seaside town in Cornwall.)

She came back 15mins later and blatently lied, telling me that the T&C's had recently changed
and I was covered.

 

[x17ken]

"
I think the AA provided services to those with a Nationwide account and there were a few issues at the start with that until AA clarified weight and length dimensions relative to motorhomes. Hopefully this will be the same."

We nearly fell foul of this when we had to call upon Breakdown services from NW.

The operator at the other end of the phone, after asking me the Gross of our van, (3700kgs) said we weren't
covered as it was over 3500kgs.

I pinned her to the back wall so to speak and told her that;
1. She should speak with a manager to clarify what she was telling me and ;
2. If they did not provide cover, I would organise this myself and send them the bill/
take them to the SCC in lieu. (This is not a seaside town in Cornwall.)

She came back 15mins later and blatently lied, telling me that the T&C's had recently changed
and I was covered.

You did better than me. I didn't get any admission that the AA's T&Cs had changed when I needed their assistance. The best I got in a very stressed-out call was "as an exception we will give you basic start-up support" If that doesn't work you will have to pay for another recovery organisation to retrieve your vehicle.

 

[x17ken]

Still waiting on a reply after escalating with both the AA and Ford Assistance. Reality is the initial communications are fended off through the customer service teams who have absultely no clue, don't read emails and resend the original terms and conditions after insisting that the vehicle is registered by the letter writer before moving forward! Comical service from both so far. We will be either insuring with the RAC or Caravan club for their respective relays which comes at a significant cost but our peace of mind. I will however persevere because someone in their organisations needs to realise that they have sold a service that is not available, highlighting the fact that they dont cover their current vehicles.

Hopefully a sensible reply soon!.

I'm grateful to you both for you efforts on this, but not holding my breath on a satisfactory reply any time soon. Until I hear otherwise, I will continue to assume that the roadside recovery policy with new Ford-based motorhomes does not give you the cover you think you are getting. Take steps to get alternative cover - just as you and I have - extra unwelcome cost for peace of mind.

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[Emmit]

You did better than me. I didn't get any admission that the AA's T&Cs had changed when I needed their assistance. The best I got in a very stressed-out call was "as an exception we will give you basic start-up support" If that doesn't work you will have to pay for another recovery organisation to retrieve your vehicle.

The T&C's hadn't changed.
She was talking bow locks but didn't want to admit she was useless.

 

[gus-lopez]

f you’re stopped by the police which plate will they choose to enforce.

The last one.They don't get a choice.

In the UK you would probably argue your case in court but in Europe at the side of the road?

Most know the rules.