Interesting - Electric Campervan with 250 mile range

[Onemanandhisdog]

& only yesterday there was an article by Ng boss stating they needed electric prices to rise at least 70% to fund wind farm construction because at the present rates no one wants to build them.Personally I cannot see why rates have to be fixed so that they will build them.It should be the same as anything else you fund & build it your self & hope to profit from it.

The windfarm off the South Coast was completed in 2018, they are talking of more than doubling the size of it and already the turbines are twice as efficient as the ones used 5 years ago. As long at the pylons they put in are good for 20 or 30 years then it is upgradeable and profitable if the companies are prepared to wait.

While I was looking to see when it was completed, I discovered it isn't as French as I originally thought, it's always had E.On all over it but, Mr Google tells me - " RWE Renewables UK Limited is the majority shareholder with 50.1 per cent of the shares, Canadian energy company Enbridge has 24.9 per cent and Equitix with 25 per cent. E. ON UK developed the project through to consent and managed the construction on behalf of all three owners."

 

[starquake]

Ref: Wind farm building, the issue is the offshore farms, they are very expensive to build and the problem isn't the cost, it's the high cost of finance at moment due to ... the high interest rates now so that debt costs more so they want a higher guaranteed percentage to guarantee a return, which they can't do when the cost of capital is currently 5.5%...

I own part (about 0.35%) of Ripples first phase of wind farm (Graig Fatha) and can say the farm has returned in actual money generated at this point roughly half of the capital it cost to build. In the last 1.5 years alone... on what should have been a 7.5 year period to repay that amount of capital. Wind is anything but needing subsidy when built on land, it's a very profitable endeavour. The issue in the UK at least is there is still a virtual morotorium on onshore wind in England (Wales and Scotland are fine) with 4 turbines built a year for last 10 years -> and all the above compliants are about offshore costs. Offshore (even with a higher subsidy) is still a money printing exercise regardless of the current "industry complaints". Let us build wind onshore, it's quick, easy (it takes about 1 year of which most is planning and grid connection), and profitable (and overall according to survey results popular around local areas too). It also saves a lot of the need for grid reinfocement that off-shore causes, as the generation is nearer to the consumption. If you want you can blame me partly for the high price of energy, however we just take a yearly "fixed" rate for generation from the utility we sell the energy to. This year Octopus get all the farms energy, and are paying oddly more than I pay Octopus per unit when my average rate taken into account. That obviously can't continue so we are expecting a lower rate in next years PPA agreement.

UK would have zero issues if they coudl let commercial and private windfarms build on prem more farms (Ripple have near sold out of EVERY project so far announced). I can highly reccomend such co-ops as a way to effetcively hedge your bets on future electricity pricing -> as said, buying my annual usage effetcively if it keeps going as is, by mid year 4 of production at latest the entire capital will have been repaid to build the farm, and I'll have 20 years of effetcively free home electricity (i'll still have to pay transmission costs admittedly).

 

[busby]

I like how EVs drive. Very easy.
The block will come from far too little electricity being produced in the UK. (We are currently...now, at this moment....importing 10% of our required energy, when the exporters (France at this time) own usage increases due to more and more EVs and ASHPs, they will inevitably have to stop exporting to us and will need it themselves...couple this with a loss of nuclear that's coming our way.

Wonder where leccy will come from??Our energy Tzar wants to see an end to gas
..Must know something we don't know..BUSBY.

 

[SpeedyDux]

& when short Spain supplies it to them at the expense of its own consumers.

we get that multiple times per week here but not because they want to encourage consumption but because usage is so low.

& only yesterday there was an article by Ng boss stating they needed electric prices to rise at least 70% to fund wind farm construction because at the present rates no one wants to build them.Personally I cannot see why rates have to be fixed so that they will build them.It should be the same as anything else you fund & build it your self & hope to profit from it.

But will you be allowed to use them? you can't legally park in most of them now without getting a cctv parking ticket.Additionally at my daughters of the 6 car charging points opposite the house 4 are solely for taxis. no private use although it does happen. plus maximum of 1hour then you get a parking ticket

AS above spain also supplied them huge amounts of electricity ,not because we had it spare but because the price was far better than selling it to the peasants so up north they suffered from cuts on & off.:

France's problems were partly caused by their idiot politicians having decided that nuclear should be phased out beginning with Fessenheim, and wind and solar prioritised instead. The recent energy crisis forced them to do a u-turn. They also had to fully nationalise EDF.

Wind farms ought to be re-named subsidy farms. Because that's what they are. If they were able to stand on their own two feet and provide a return on investment there would be no need to have subsidies of any kind for renewables like wind generation. The hollow promise of cheap renewable green energy - my energy bills are proof that this is utter drivel. The more wind turbines they construct, the higher the cost of electricity to consumers. Greta's Law.

 

[Guigsy]

France's problems were partly caused by their idiot politicians having decided that nuclear should be phased out beginning with Fessenheim, and wind and solar prioritised instead. The recent energy crisis forced them to do a u-turn. They also had to fully nationalise EDF.

Wind farms ought to be re-named subsidy farms. Because that's what they are. If they were able to stand on their own two feet and provide a return on investment there would be no need to have subsidies of any kind for renewables like wind generation. The hollow promise of cheap renewable green energy - my energy bills are proof that this is utter drivel. The more wind turbines they construct, the higher the cost of electricity to consumers. Greta's Law.

Sorry, this just isn't true. By pretty much every measure, on-shore wind and solar farms are now cost competitive per lifetime unit with gas. Offshore is only slightly more expensive and still cheaper than coal. All are several times cheaper than nuclear.

Fossil fuel companies get massive tax breaks that are effectively subsidies that far outweigh anything that renewables get.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[starquake]

Wind farms ought to be re-named subsidy farms. Because that's what they are. If they were able to stand on their own two feet and provide a return on investment there would be no need to have subsidies of any kind for renewables like wind generation. The hollow promise of cheap renewable green energy - my energy bills are proof that this is utter drivel. The more wind turbines they construct, the higher the cost of electricity to consumers. Greta's Law.

Wind farm I am a part of has no subsidy. We get paid market rates on a 1 year fixed PPA agreement to a utility (Octopus).
They don't need subsidys, they just need government to allow planning for on-shore farms without a SINGLE complaint killing the entire project as it is now.

The entire subsidy thing is nuts, if you read the actual supply side news, the issue is many of the offshore farms are FAILING to sign up/enable for their fixed rate contracts as it would make them less money than being on the open market at moment. 2027 that madness ends and the big offshore farms will be forced to sell for their governement mandated max price, and any excess will be repaid to your eleetcricity supplier. https://www.current-news.co.uk/sign...-offshore-wind-farms-to-delay-cfd-activation/ if you are interested in this topic.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Sorry, this just isn't true. By pretty much every measure, on-shore wind and solar farms are now cost competitive per lifetime unit with gas. Offshore is only slightly more expensive and still cheaper than coal. All are several times cheaper than nuclear.

Fossil fuel companies get massive tax breaks that are effectively subsidies that far outweigh anything that renewables get.

Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was mainly referring to offshore wind, where the majority of the UK's planned expansion will be.

When windfarm investors backed out of the next phase in the North Sea because the CFD cap is set too low by the government, which they said makes it uneconomic, I rest my case.

 

[starquake]

Wind farm I am a part of has no subsidy. We get paid market rates on a 1 year fixed PPA agreement to a utility (Octopus).
They don't need subsidys, they just need government to allow planning for on-shore farms without a SINGLE complaint killing the entire project as it is now.

The entire subsidy thing is nuts, if you read the actual supply side news, the issue is many of the offshore farms are FAILING to sign up/enable for their fixed rate contracts as it would make them less money than being on the open market at moment. 2027 that madness ends and the big offshore farms will be forced to sell for their governement mandated max price, and any excess will be repaid to your eleetcricity supplier. https://www.current-news.co.uk/sign...-offshore-wind-farms-to-delay-cfd-activation/ if you are interested in this topic.

Effectively if you don't understand the above at moment the wind farms on CfD's are actually (ie those with subsidys) are currently paying money to your electricity supplier, rather than being paid BY them for electricity, as the amount over the strike price they are being paid is all being refunded.

If anything CfD's are the moment are lowering your bill significantly and without them you would have (given wind is 30-40%) today, and many CfD (today) are set at about 7p a kwh ... ie, if power is above 7p a kwh the difference is paid to your bill.

Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was mainly referring to offshore wind, where the majority of the UK's planned expansion will be.

When windfarm investors backed out of the next phase in the North Sea because the CFD cap is set too low by the government, which they said makes it uneconomic, I rest my case.

Thats because cost of finance is 5.5% (Blame interest rates) and their make about 5.5% ROI per annum on a wind farm (average time to repay should be 20 years based on my investment case). Would you invest on a 25 year project with interest rates at 5% where you have a ROI of 0.5% a year. It doesn't make financial sense. Blame the interest rates, not the windfarm operators as that is the reality.

 

[Guigsy]

Perhaps I should have made it clear that I was mainly referring to offshore wind, where the majority of the UK's planned expansion will be.

When windfarm investors backed out of the next phase in the North Sea because the CFD cap is set too low by the government, which they said makes it uneconomic, I rest my case.

Unecomonic means it costs more than it makes. That's not the case here. Windfarms can easily "wash their face" in terms of the balance books.

What you're talking about is investors not getting enough return on their investment. That comes from the company's profit. High profit means charging the public too much for electricity.

 

[starquake]

Unecomonic means it costs more than it makes. That's not the case here. Windfarms can easily "wash their face" in terms of the balance books.

What you're talking about is investors not getting enough return on their investment. That comes from the company's profit. High profit means charging the public too much for electricity.

The ROI is effectively nil at moment. Bear in mind companies primary responsibility is to shareholders not the customers of electricity, and a 0% ROI means nothing will get built.

The whole point of a CfD is to guarantee ROI to a small percentage, and limit exposure/excess profit beyond that so they can't make over that 5% profit fitgure. It's not a subsidy, as if like now power is higher than the strike price the government gets that back NOT the company owning the wind farm.

It's not wind farms causing the excess problem, it's the companies in middle east and asia selling gas causing the gas price to be high thats causing excess profits as CfD's actually stop any company raising too much at all -> hence the link I posted proving some (smaller) wind operators are cheating the system to not activate their CfD as they can make more by stringing it out the full 3 years between a farm being built and CfD being activated.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[SpeedyDux]

And another thing - high interest rates are partly the result of rising energy prices fuelling inflation, so some of that is down to the windfarmers. If they don't want to invest because the ROI is too low at current rates then there is something wrong with their business model.

An economy that relies on ZIRP is not a healthy economy. The BoE should maintain interest rates at their historic average in the 4.5-5% range and not bow to pressure to lower rates back down to "emergency" levels. There are lots of good reasons for this.

 

[starquake]

And another thing - high interest rates are partly the result of rising energy prices fuelling inflation, so some of that is down to the windfarmers. If they don't want to invest because the ROI is too low at current rates then there is something wrong with their business model.

An economy that relies on ZIRP is not a healthy economy. The BoE should maintain interest rates at their historic average in the 4.5-5% range and not bow to pressure to lower rates back down to "emergency" levels. There are lots of good reasons for this.

Its not economy. Bonds are costed on a market which is bank base rate + a %. Thats how corporate finance works when you borrowing say $200mil for a offshore farm (bear in mind a single turbine is $2.5-5m depending on model). The corporate team agree a X year bond on those terms. Whilst interest rates high it's uneconomical on a CfD at current rates -> thats just fact, it's borderline so uneconomical at present they would be paying UK government to build them and operate, which plainly won't happen.

I agree the high electricity prices are causing this, but it's not the wind farms on CfDs that are as they are actually paying money back to your suppliers and lowering your bills given they payback in general anytime electricity wholesale is above 9p, which is pretty much all the time now. The problem is gas, as the last used unit prices all electricity, and gas is up from 2p to 6p in the period (but down from the 12p heights it was at at peak). Gas firms and oil utilities are not the people investing in wind farms mostly that being wind companies, who have to finance on the open market, which is bank base rate + a risk %. Some are oil firms and with their profits for those being taxed at 65% why would they invest in the UK given offshore spend is more economical and profitable for them. Companies will do nothing without a ROI case, and they'll build for highest ROI. This governments tax approach fails to reconise that, and so do Labours policys sadly given I suspect they will win the next election. Expect a lot of offshore workers to be moving to more friendly offshore wind countries like the US surprisingly.

Wind gets such a bad press from people in the media who have never read or understood a CfD to actually be a cap on the max wholesale price of electricity which is exactly what it is.

 

[busby]

France's problems were partly caused by their idiot politicians having decided that nuclear should be phased out beginning with Fessenheim, and wind and solar prioritised instead. The recent energy crisis forced them to do a u-turn. They also had to fully nationalise EDF.

Wind farms ought to be re-named subsidy farms. Because that's what they are. If they were able to stand on their own two feet and provide a return on investment there would be no need to have subsidies of any kind for renewables like wind generation. The hollow promise of cheap renewable green energy - my energy bills are proof that this is utter drivel. The more wind turbines they construct, the higher the cost of electricity to consumers. Greta's Law.

For 270 days last year

Sorry, this just isn't true. By pretty much every measure, on-shore wind and solar farms are now cost competitive per lifetime unit with gas. Offshore is only slightly more expensive and still cheaper than coal. All are several times cheaper than nuclear.

Fossil fuel companies get massive tax breaks that are effectively subsidies that far outweigh anything that renewables get.

I read last week that for 270 days last year the wind didn't blow so no wind power..BUSBY.

 

[Langtoftlad]

AS above spain also supplied them huge amounts of electricity ,not because we had it spare but because the price was far better than selling it to the peasants so up north they suffered from cuts on & off.:

Similar at BA, they made engineering a 'profit centre', so they ended up prioritising competitor's aircraft rather than fixing our own

 

[starquake]

For 270 days last year

I read last week that for 270 days last year the wind didn't blow so no wind power..BUSBY.

You read incorrectly thats complete nonsense. More than happy to share actual generation data for my actual wind turbine share. I can tell you it generated power near every day. If 270 days was true I would have received no income for 9 months of the year. (in reality I received income every single... day).

Last years electricity data; Blue is wind - do you see a single DAY without wind? I don't.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[starquake]

Should add that data is from gridwatch.co.uk sourced from Elexon (which is the UK's electricity grid data service provider). Where is this 270 days of no wind evidence?

I would add last year which I published above was also a historical low for wind data, with last summer being "very" low. Last year in July I got paid about £40 for my generation share, this July I got £150 to demonstrate that difference.

 

[busby]

Should add that data is from gridwatch.co.uk sourced from Elexon (which is the UK's electricity grid data service provider). Where is this 270 days of no wind evidence?

I would add last year which I published above was also a historical low for wind data, with last summer being "very" low. Last year in July I got paid about £40 for my generation share, this July I got £150 to demonstrate that difference.

Only stating what I read..BUSBY.

 

[Gromett]

When windfarm investors backed out of the next phase in the North Sea because the CFD cap is set too low by the government, which they said makes it uneconomic, I rest my case.

You can rest what ever you want. The government Goofed big time.
They set the CFD contract price for offshore wind at £44/MWh.
The wholesale price at the time of the auction was £119/MWh

So the government were asking companies to sign a contract that tied them into a price that was not only below the current wholesale price it didn't factor in the very high inflation over recent years due to covid/ukraine.
They could put their investment into other installations that didn't require a CFD contract and just get commercial rates, much better return.

The subsidy is not there anymore for offshore. It is a guaranteed floor, nothing more. Pretty much every existing CFD contract is currently paying the government money on each MWh generated.

 

[SpeedyDux]

You can rest what ever you want. The government Goofed big time.
They set the CFD contract price for offshore wind at £44/MWh.
The wholesale price at the time of the auction was £119/MWh

So the government were asking companies to sign a contract that tied them into a price that was not only below the current wholesale price it didn't factor in the very high inflation over recent years due to covid/ukraine.
They could put their investment into other installations that didn't require a CFD contract and just get commercial rates, much better return.

The subsidy is not there anymore for offshore. It is a guaranteed floor, nothing more. Pretty much every existing CFD contract is currently paying the government money on each MWh generated.

I've been saying for some time that the UK's energy market is rigged. CfD contracts are another kettle of rotten poisson.

Meanwhile, I am forced to pay 55p per day standing charge for electricity (up 10p) and 32.788p per kWh (down very slightly but still fixed for several months). Which is equivalent to £327.88 per MWh - a vast amount compared against the wholesale price, or even the CfD cap for the new bids.

I have no idea what the approx £200 per year standing charge pays for because it lacks transparency. As far as I know it is pure guaranteed profit for my energy supplier. Only a few years ago the infrastructure and distribution cost was included in the tariff, so the extortionate daily standing charge reeks of double-dipping. Thanks, Ofgen. [sarc/]

No doubt someone will reply along the lines of the rapidly increasing standing charge is there to pay for smart meters, and new UHV infrastructure to connect the offshore windfarms to the Grid. Well, if that isn't a subsidy I don't know what is. Windfarmers should be paying for this stuff. In the same way that house developers have to pay for infrastructure for new dwellings, instead of getting a free ride.

As for the electricity tariff, the gulf between it and the wholesale rate implies that a bunch of companies in between the actual generators and my electricity meter are taking a juicy cut, and have no real incentive to bring their costs down. Also, they are allowed to play the markets like Centrica did, making windfall profits from trading gas contracts, on top of everything else.

 

[Stoosal]

Let us build wind onshore, it's quick, easy (it takes about 1 year of which most is planning and grid connection), and profitable (and overall according to survey results popular around local areas too).

excuse me but popular around local areas…….absolute bollocks!
I have numerous windfarms forced onto me, my neighbours and destroying the views over our whole region and there is no advantage to any of us that couldn’t be gained by building them out if the way offshore…….perhaps your company that builds them could reimburse my estimated house value devaluation, estimated to be near to £30,000ish because you want to make money! I keep forgetting how much my electricity bills have come down since all these wind farms have surrounded us……oh,they haven’t!

Fuming…..

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Gromett]

I read last week that for 270 days last year the wind didn't blow so no wind power..BUSBY.

That's a good one. I have seen some lies spread about wind power but that one takes the biscuit

Not saying you are lying, but you have been lied to if you read that somewhere.

 

[Marauder]

It's all getting very silly..

its always been very silly

 

[busby]

That's a good one. I have seen some lies spread about wind power but that one takes the biscuit

Not saying you are lying, but you have been lied to if you read that somewhere.

But Gas still produces more electricity than wind...BUSBY.

 

[Gromett]

But Gas still produces more electricity than wind...BUSBY.

Huh? What has that got to do with your original statement?
I know gas produces more than wind currently and for now.

How about accepting you were wrong on the 270 days or provide the evidence please? Don't do a coolcats and change the subject

 

[starquake]

excuse me but popular around local areas…….absolute bollocks!
I have numerous windfarms forced onto me, my neighbours and destroying the views over our whole region and there is no advantage to any of us that couldn’t be gained by building them out if the way offshore…….perhaps your company that builds them could reimburse my estimated house value devaluation, estimated to be near to £30,000ish because you want to make money! I keep forgetting how much my electricity bills have come down since all these wind farms have surrounded us……oh,they haven’t!

Fuming…..

Some say not and there are some who disagree, but academic research here does say 9/10 are in favour from people surveyed. Theres not just one piece of research saying this, it's about 70/30 in favour across all academic resarch..

The popularity of onshore wind farms in rural areas revealed by Oxford Brookes research - Oxford Brookes University

Onshore wind farms as a sustainable solution to the energy crisis are more popular with the public than many people think, according to a study by a senior lecturer in psychology at Oxford Brookes University.

www.brookes.ac.uk

I could pass other surveys saying same, doesn't help personal circumstance.

Octopus DO offer (substantial) discounts if one of their turbines are near your house so may be woth checking of your local turbines are Octopus one.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[starquake]

I've been saying for some time that the UK's energy market is rigged. CfD contracts are another kettle of rotten poisson.

Meanwhile, I am forced to pay 55p per day standing charge for electricity (up 10p) and 32.788p per kWh (down very slightly but still fixed for several months). Which is equivalent to £327.88 per MWh - a vast amount compared against the wholesale price, or even the CfD cap for the new bids.

I have no idea what the approx £200 per year standing charge pays for because it lacks transparency. As far as I know it is pure guaranteed profit for my energy supplier. Only a few years ago the infrastructure and distribution cost was included in the tariff, so the extortionate daily standing charge reeks of double-dipping. Thanks, Ofgen. [sarc/]

No doubt someone will reply along the lines of the rapidly increasing standing charge is there to pay for smart meters, and new UHV infrastructure to connect the offshore windfarms to the Grid. Well, if that isn't a subsidy I don't know what is. Windfarmers should be paying for this stuff. In the same way that house developers have to pay for infrastructure for new dwellings, instead of getting a free ride.

As for the electricity tariff, the gulf between it and the wholesale rate implies that a bunch of companies in between the actual generators and my electricity meter are taking a juicy cut, and have no real incentive to bring their costs down. Also, they are allowed to play the markets like Centrica did, making windfall profits from trading gas contracts, on top of everything else.

CfD's are a cap on wholesale rate, nothign more nothign less, and the £44 the government is offering is 4.4p a kwh in real terms. Thats why no-one building wind farms would you do that, when the actual price is 12-19p at moment. If the price is above 7p for older farms and 9p for more recent (on last round) then the energy companys get a rebabate capping their spend at 7 or 8p. Hinkley point C's CfD is about 10p a unit in comparison.

The standing charge is mostly up due to failed energy companies. ie, us all paying for energy companys selling energy below actual price back in 2020 which is why they all failed. Octopus have a good blog explaining what it's made of, but it's basically transmission fees for most part (ie cost of running grid). It's not guaranteed profit for the energy company as most LOSE money on the standing charge element (Octopus again is one who are below the price cap on this, and all of it goes to National Grid and ofgem in summary to pay for the previous failed companies). Smart meters are a VERY VERY tiny part of standing charges, and are really not the problem. If you didn't know an electricity company pays less for a smart meter than a normal meter which is WHY they are pushing them. If you want to pay yet more standing charges, stay away from smart meters. (the standing fees from 2025 ish for smart meters on half hour metering are about 25% OF those from normal meters, so I expect if ofgem allow it, you'll find smart meter tariffs get even cheaper whilst non-smart ones get more expensive). If you are really interested in energy pricing and cost elements - Probably worth you reading about TnOus charging if you really want to know this topic, but as a good example if you didn't know you pay per unit a ~ 15p a unit uplift for any unit you consume between 5 and 7:30pm most days, with it being 1p a unit for transimission at other times, and "free" overnight. Thats why despite wholesale pricing being ~11-15p at moment you end up paying 30p, as without a smart meter your electricity supplier has to assume you may use it all at peak periods. Smart meters = good as you can prove you are not. Theres a guide on charging pricing and how it's calculated but it's a dry 200 page read if you really are interested, but you do need to have worked in the energy insustry to understand some of the acronyms. https://www.nationalgrideso.com/ind...transmission-network-use-system-tnuos-charges is a good starting point.

Ref; grid interconnects it may surprise you to knwo that wind, and other farms actually have to pay at market rates to the grid for their connection. It's not "free" or subsidised by standing fees. Again why I knwo this is I'm acutally paying to have the 2nd phase of the wind farm I invest in to be connected. The grid does have to pay to move energy from where you connect to elsewhere at times, but thats no different to a coal/gas plant neeeding energy moving from A to B. Its yet another reason why selling energy at 4.4p a unit as the current CfD requires is uneconomnical as the grid connection will cost for a big wind farm about 2p of that profit over time.

If you are paying 32p a unit today, frankly you are being ripped off by your energy company. Switch -> there are companys (Octopus as one) selling energy at actual wholesale costs, metered half hourly. But you need a smart meter, so if you are a refusenik for these you can't acces the cheap energy because of the high transmission cost element as above. Why not get one and save half your costs? (My and I imagine a few other fun members juding by a recent post on this years Octopus incentives pay an average of 20p a unit). I'm on Itelligent octopus which is 29p peak, 7.5p off peak. I'm not even going to offer a referral here, theres no reason to. If you are paying an "old" big 6 provider thats why you being ripped off. There is a reason Octopus are now no 2 in customer numbers in the UK from not existing 5 years ago...

There is a reason commercial supplies have been on half hour billing for last 15 years and above transmission costs are it.

If you want to pay the wholesale rate: https://octopus.energy/smart/agile/ -> and they'll even pay you to use energy when the grid is over capacity as it has been ~ 10 times this year. This tariff isn't without risk as the max rate can be £1 a kwh, but I can say people on it seem to average around 20-25p.

 

[busby]

Huh? What has that got to do with your original statement?
I know gas produces more than wind currently and for now.

How about accepting you were wrong on the 270 days or provide the evidence please? Don't do a coolcats and change the subject

No I wast wrong ..my newspaper source was wrong..You know you rreally remind me of my humourless virtually Edwardian headmaster at Grammar school..Don't think we would get on for a minute if we actually met. because your arrogant and rude..BUSBY.

me

 

[Gromett]

No I wast wrong ..my newspaper source was wrong..You know you rreally remind me of my humourless virtually Edwardian headmaster at Grammar school..Don't think we would get on for a minute if we actually met. because your arrogant and rude..BUSBY.

me

Arrogant and rude? You made a statement that I believed to be factually wrong. I asked you about it, made sure you knew I was being light hearted by using a benign expression "taking the biscuit" and laughing about it.
You came back at me with a totally unrelated thing, neither saying you had been misled or had misremembered it. Or alternatively providing any evidence for your claim. I would have been happy with either. I don't mind being proven wrong.
I asked you politely to provide evidence using the word please as my mother taught me. And compared you to coolcats who loves changing the subject. Not exactly rude or humourless at any point.

Seems to me that it may be you that is a touch sensitive when questioned about a post you make, and try to change the subject rather than admit an error, misremembering or misreading?
I have re-read my two posts and cannot see anything wrong with my posts that would have provoked this outburst

Oh well.... I don't think we will need to struggle too hard not to meet so fortunately neither of us will have to make much effort on that front

 

[busby]

Arrogant and rude? You made a statement that I believed to be factually wrong. I asked you about it, made sure you knew I was being light hearted by using a benign expression "taking the biscuit" and laughing about it.
You came back at me with a totally unrelated thing, neither saying you had been misled or had misremembered it. Or alternatively providing any evidence for your claim. I would have been happy with either. I don't mind being proven wrong.
I asked you politely to provide evidence using the word please as my mother taught me. And compared you to coolcats who loves changing the subject. Not exactly rude or humourless at any point.

Seems to me that it may be you that is a touch sensitive when questioned about a post you make, and try to change the subject rather than admit an error, misremembering or misreading?
I have re-read my two posts and cannot see anything wrong with my posts that would have provoked this outburst

Oh well.... I don't think we will need to struggle too hard not to meet so fortunately neither of us will have to make much effort on that front

Think you really need to lighten up...life is not as serious as you try to make it...Relax and I am sure your friends and family will be much happier...BUSBY.

 

[Gromett]

CfD contracts are another kettle of rotten poisson.

Nothing at all wrong with CFDs or connection fees. The problem is the system used to set the wholesale price. That is what is screwing everything up.
Get rid of marginal pricing and use average cost and pricing would end up closer to European market rates.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}