Hymer B754 2.8 JTD Tag Axle is it Rear Wheel Drive?

[Grint]

Could someone please confirm if the 2003 Hymer B754 2.8JTD (Tag/Double Rear Axle) A Rear Wheel Drive vehicle?

 

[donkey]

That would be a no. Can't see how you could have rear wheel drive and a tag axle. Presumably you are on a Fiat, Peugeot or Citroen base vehicle.

Geoff

 

[WESTY66]

I would say it’s front wheel drive

 

[CazPaul]

Front wheel drive for sure

 

[Grint]

That would be a no. Can't see how you could have rear wheel drive and a tag axle. Presumably you are on a Fiat, Peugeot or Citroen base vehicle.

Geoff

It's Fiat engines, 2.8JTD. However seems bizarre to me for it to have the high payload it does ie: 4,500kg & 5,500kg Gross Train (giving a permissible 1000kg trailer Weight), 2 rear axles and have it all being dragged from the front?

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[bigalw35]

That would be a no. Can't see how you could have rear wheel drive and a tag axle. Presumably you are on a Fiat, Peugeot or Citroen base vehicle.

Geoff

Check out a lot of lorries, tag axle AND rear wheel drive, drive is generally on the front axle of the two

 

[donkey]

It's Fiat engines, 2.8JTD. However seems bizarre to me for it to have the high payload it does ie: 4,500kg & 5,500kg Gross Train (giving a permissible 1000kg trailer Weight), 2 rear axles and have it all being dragged from the front?

My normal Peugeot Boxer has trailer towing capacity of 2,500kg and as you say all dragged from the front.

Geoff

 

[donkey]

Check out a lot of lorries, tag axle AND rear wheel drive

Well this not a lorry with twin wheeled drive, plus sophisticated air suspension to maintain sufficient weight on the drive axle.

Geoff

 

[CazPaul]

JockandRita will confirm it’s definitely FWD.

 

[poppycamper]

plus sophisticated air suspension to maintain sufficient weight on the drive axle.

Can you please elaborate how air suspension, sophisticated or not can possibly move weight to the drive axle??

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[poppycamper]

Well this not a lorry with twin wheeled drive,

Think you have to quote the whole of bigalw35 and not just the part you want to.
He stated

Check out a lot of lorries, tag axle AND rear wheel drive, drive is generally on the front axle of the two

Absolutely no reason why a moho could not be rear wheel drive to "front back axle" with a free running 3rd "rear rear axle" for extra load bearing.

 

[donkey]

Can you please elaborate how air suspension, sophisticated or not can possibly move weight to the drive axle??

Simply by reducing the air pressure at the additional axle air bags. They also often have a dump control for use if traction is lost at the drive wheels. this either removes all air pressure from the additional axle or indeed lifts it off the ground completely.

Geoff

 

[JockandRita]

JockandRita will confirm it’s definitely FWD.

Grint. I certainly can confirm that the B754 (which is the same layout both externally and internally as the E690), is definitely FWD on a Fiat/ALKO chassis.

We up plated ours from a GVW of 4500Kgs, to 5500Kgs, with a total train weight from 5200Kgs, to 6500Kgs.
All legit and above board.

There is one A Class MH on a Mercedes/ALKO chassis, which does have RWD on one of the rear tandem axles, but I can't remember which manufacturer it is.

Cheers

Jock.

 

[poppycamper]

Simply by reducing the air pressure at the additional axle air bags. They also often have a dump control for use if traction is lost at the drive wheels. this either removes all air pressure from the additional axle or indeed lifts it off the ground completely.

Geoff

donkey . Thanks for the reply and what you are saying, however I really do struggle to see how what you are saying would indeed work....
Your quote " or indeed lifts it off the ground completely" really does have me confused.... Sorry

 

[Guigsy]

With a tag layout, there's probably more load per axle on the front then there is on either of the individual rears.

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[JockandRita]

Your quote " or indeed lifts it off the ground completely" really does have me confused.... Sorry

More applicable to HGVs than to MHs. IIRC, it's all done by load sensing valves, causing the tag axle to raise or lower.
If struggling to get up a ramp with a 6 x 2 Tractor unit with a loaded trailer, I can raise the tax axle thereby giving me a better grip with the drive axle. Once clear, I can either lower the tag axle manually, or let the system do it automatically, as it senses the load again............................none of which is applicable to MHs.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[poppycamper]

More applicable to HGVs than to MHs. IIRC, it's all done by load sensing valves, causing the tag axle to raise or lower.
If struggling to get up a ramp with a 6 x 2 Tractor unit with a loaded trailer, I can raise the tax axle thereby giving me a better grip with the drive axle. Once clear, I can either lower the tag axle manually, or let the system do it automatically, as it senses the load again............................none of which is applicable to MHs.

Cheers,

Jock.

Yes I understand the concept on a lorry, but I was referring to the quote by donkey who made it abundantly clear to bigalw35 that he was not refering to lorrys but mohos. And i was just enquiring how air suspension on a motor home could raise an axle of the ground??

 

[funflair]

Grint. I certainly can confirm that the B754 (which is the same layout both externally and internally as the E690), is definitely FWD on a Fiat/ALKO chassis.

We up plated ours from a GVW of 4500Kgs, to 5500Kgs, with a total train weight from 5200Kgs, to 6500Kgs.
All legit and above board.

There is one A Class MH on a Mercedes/ALKO chassis, which does have RWD on one of the rear tandem axles, but I can't remember which manufacturer it is.

Cheers

Jock.

I thought that you would point out that is a tandem not tag Jock I believe the tandem, or does the one driven axle make it a tag even though it doesn't lift ? anyway I think it was Frankia had the exclusive for a year but never progressed with it.

I found something but then realised it was on facts so a link might not work, the post was from Clive Mott.

#21 · Feb 4, 2011

The alco tag axle on the Merc has been around a bit. It started over two (or was it three?) years back at Dussledorf with a single rear axle Merc with fully independant rear suspension and chassis by Alco. It was on the Merc stand. I covered it in MMM at the time in "Salon Snippets" It looked well engineered. The tag axle variant is a genuine tag axle (Unlike the Fiats) because its a non driven axle sat next to a rear driven axle. The suppleness of the suspension should help on wet grass but only having two wheels driving out of a total of 6 will not. The original Merc 616 had a single rear axle with twin tyres each side giving drive on four out of six tyres. Theoretically twice the grip of the tag axle variant. But not fully independant rear suspension.
From experience expect around 18 MPG average out of the 3 litre Auto pulling around 6 tonnes.

C.

 

[funflair]

Yes I understand the concept on a lorry, but I was referring to the quote by donkey who made it abundantly clear to bigalw35 that he was not refering to lorrys but mohos. And i was just enquiring how air suspension on a motor home could raise an axle of the ground??

OK it might not lift an axle but a 4 or 6 channel air bag system could drop the pressure in the non driven axle thereby ensuring that the driven axle had full contact on rough ground etc, the trouble would then be that the one axle and tyres would then be overloaded so most likely not a good idea.

 

[JockandRita]

I thought that you would point out that is a tandem not tag Jock I believe the tandem, or does the one driven axle make it a tag even though it doesn't lift ? anyway I think it was Frankia had the exclusive for a year but never progressed with it.

I normally would Martin, but some folks just don't take any notice.
A tag axle trails a driven axle, where most, (but not all), can be raised or lowered. The twin axle set up on a Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen ALKO chassis, are tandem axles, as neither of them are driven.

A mid lift axle, is one which precedes the driven axle, and invariably can be raised/lowered either manually or automatically.

OK it might not lift an axle but a 4 or 6 channel air bag system could drop the pressure in the non driven axle thereby ensuring that the driven axle had full contact on rough ground etc, the trouble would then be that the one axle and tyres would then be overloaded so most likely not a good idea.

In that scenario Martin, I would expect some electrickery/load valves to be fitted, which would kick in at a detected speed of 10 -15 MPH for example, which would then balance out the axles to take the load evenly, keeping things safe and legal.
Is there such a system on a MH?

Cheers,

Jock.

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[funflair]

I normally would Martin, but some folks just don't take any notice.
A tag axle trails a driven axle, where most, (but not all), can be raised or lowered. The twin axle set up on a Fiat/Peugeot/Citroen ALKO chassis, are tandem axles, as neither of them are driven.

A mid lift axle, is one which precedes the driven axle, and invariably can be raised/lowered either manually or automatically.


In that scenario Martin, I would expect some electrickery/load valves to be fitted, which would kick in at a detected speed of 10 -15 MPH for example, which would then balance out the axles to take the load evenly, keeping things safe and legal.
Is there such a system on a MH?

Cheers,

Jock.

I don't think so Jock, but you are right it would need to be properly managed.

 

[JockandRita]

I don't think so Jock, but you are right it would need to be properly managed.

No, I didn't think so either Martin.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Grint]

Check out a lot of lorries, tag axle AND rear wheel drive, drive is generally on the front axle of the two

My thoughts entirely mate, front wheel drive just doesn't seem right. Thus I'm looking for confirmation that it's the 2nd Axle is actually driven

 

[Badknee]

Check out a lot of lorries, tag axle AND rear wheel drive, drive is generally on the front axle of the two

Correct

 

[Badknee]

My thoughts entirely mate, front wheel drive just doesn't seem right. Thus I'm looking for confirmation that it's the 2nd Axle is actually driven

Your moho is a Ducato up to the B pillar where the seatbelts are attached. All the drivetrain finishes there too, the Alko chassis is bolted on by Hymer, the wiring, rear brake system and the exhaust hung and that’s it.

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[donkey]

My thoughts entirely mate, front wheel drive just doesn't seem right. Thus I'm looking for confirmation that it's the 2nd Axle is actually driven

Hi. Are you actually still thinking this vehicle is anything other than front wheel drive? What or why made you think it was anything else? Did the seller indicate that it was rear wheel drive?

Geoff

 

[Blue Moon]

My thoughts entirely mate, front wheel drive just doesn't seem right. Thus I'm looking for confirmation that it's the 2nd Axle is actually driven

No, sorry, definitely front wheel drive. The 2 rear axles, tags, call em whatever are dragged along. I’m not aware of Fiat ever making a rear wheel drive Ducato unless someone can tell me differently.

 

[Snowbird]

I had a 754 until a couple of years ago. Definitely FWD. Can easily be uprated to 5000kgs. Hymerdid doa RWD tag some years ago on the Mercedes chassis. It was the 750 Sclass. Not many were made and they do command a good price when they do come to the market. Below is my old 754.

 

[Figaro]

I'll bet there's a lot of wheel spin on those doing a standing hill start on wet roads

 

[poppycamper]

I'll bet there's a lot of wheel spin on those doing a standing hill start on wet roads

Figaro Not according to donkey . Apparently you can use the air suspension to move ALL the weight to front axle and get you out of any mud or indeed any hill starts. have to say got my doubts .

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