Hartal hab door mech issue, Pilote Explorateur (1 Viewer)

[Bonkers the Dog]

Greetings,

I have an issue with the above, a 2013/14 LHD Pilote Exploratuer Diamond Edition.

The central locking works fine, I can hear it activating when I depress the fob remote; both on & off.

However, when unlocking, despite hearing the actuator, the door will not open.

So I stripped off the cover. Everything appears normal and all connecting rods and components appear present. There is no sign of damage or missing parts. A thorough clean and lube made no difference. I removed the oval bar that is sprung loaded, and the spring behind it, everything appears good, no wear, no distortion.

There appears to be an up/down sliding component that

engages/disengages when the lock is active (see image no 4). When locked it's counterpart moves back from the sliding lock mechanism thus physically disengaging the handle from the lock, all very nifty, but that's where I feel the fault lies. The action of deactivating the lock reengages it by way of a spring and shallow cams, however, it appears to have stopped functioning.

I removed the spring, it is good, I removed the internal pivoting arm, that's good as well.

I am now stumped.

I am attaching a few piccies. If anybody has any experience of this model I 'd greatly appreciate your input.​

Coincidentally, (not that I am a great believer in it...) last week I had to do a quick repair-again- on the hab door lock outer handle. the door was working fine, but the external handle connectors on the inside were just failing to activate the release mechanism and not allowing the locking pins to rise above their counterpart opposite, although, as I said, it worked fine on the inside handle; go figure as the yanks say. It was solved with a heath robinson bodge! I have to say that the whole mechanism appears overly complex and rather flimsy, leading to stretched or misaligned con-rods and worn plastic parts. No doubt the gift that keeps on giving....to the parts department!

The two issues seem unrelated, but then as I said, I don't believe in coincidences...

 

[Augusta08]

Looks like job for someone familiar with the mechanism, best left alone by amateurs IMHO

 

[Mr Colpot]

Is it the Alarm Fob you are pressing or the Ignition Key Fob?
Has it ever worked?

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

Yes,

It all worked AOK up till the other day. The problem just raised its head out of nowhere which I thought a bit unusual, no warning at all.

Hera ya on the pro comment, I'm beginning to think that myself, but the tight, stubborn Scotsman in me might just have one more shuffty at it to be sure to be sure!

 

[Kim H]

If the counterweights are loose that prevents you from opening the door from the inside. Try nipping them up (not too much, else you could fracture the plastics around them). We had the same problem and this was our fix.

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[Mr Colpot]

Ours locks and alarms on the alarm fob but the alarm fob only takes the alarm off - I have to use the ignition key central locking to unlock the hab door.

 

[Ditcha]

Hi we had the same problem, if the central locking is working that tells me the mechanisms are working fine, we had the outer handle fail which caused the same problems you are describing, see pics basically the inner handle is a slave to the outer one (I blamed the boss for being to enthusiastic pulling the outer handle when opening).

Basically the spindle with the counter weights had snapped and also the area were the handle pivots I did a repair but wasn't permanent because we couldn't get a replacement when away. On my return I replaced it and all has been well since I purchased it from here:

https://www.motorhomeandcaravanaccessories.co.uk/burstner/door-handle-hartal-outer-505

The two parts that have the blue cross on were used for the temp fix so ignore these

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

Ha! Nice one, you blame your missus, I blame the kids. They are always pulling on it like a couple of angry chimps. The external handle has the same wear pattern at its base as the example in your picture. I shall investigate...

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

Ooooo. Good job I was sitting down when I followed that link! I've come over a little queer....

I'll get my trusty tools out tomorrow and have a good root around.

Cheers again.

 

[tonyidle]

Love the way they hacked a hole in the door with a blunt saw. And carefully fitted the angled self-tappers. It's a miracle it ever worked. (Mine's the same by the way but working OK so far. I daren't look to see how it's "installed").

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[Vic. Parsons.]

I have a French friend with a Bavaria, also made by Pilote.
His door lock mechanism would open the hab door easily from the inside but was a problem to open from the outside.
His van had been back to the Pilote factory numerous times and they replaced the whole door lock mechanism but this did not solve the problem.
I had a look at it for him and discovered that the locking pins moved the full arc when operated from the inside handle, but only part of the arc using the outside handle.
If you look at the metal arm that lifts in a slot when you operate the outside handle, (i think its the left hand vertical metal rod in your picture) you will see it moves a few mm before lifting the black platic piece and then the locking pins. This means the pins have not moved far enough to release on the keepers.
My solution was simply to use a small zip tie in the gap of the slot so that there was no delay in the mechanism lifting the platic part and therefore the pins moved through the full arc and this solved the problem.
It seems the manufacturer got the length of the bends in that particular metal rod wrong by a few mm.
Try the zip tie and Let us know if it works for you as well.

 

[Ditcha]

I have a French friend with a Bavaria, also made by Pilote.
His door lock mechanism would open the hab door easily from the inside but was a problem to open from the outside.
His van had been back to the Pilote factory numerous times and they replaced the whole door lock mechanism but this did not solve the problem.
I had a look at it for him and discovered that the locking pins moved the full arc when operated from the inside handle, but only part of the arc using the outside handle.
If you look at the metal arm that lifts in a slot when you operate the outside handle, (i think its the left hand vertical metal rod in your picture) you will see it moves a few mm before lifting the black platic piece and then the locking pins. This means the pins have not moved far enough to release on the keepers.
My solution was simply to use a small zip tie in the gap of the slot so that there was no delay in the mechanism lifting the platic part and therefore the pins moved through the full arc and this solved the problem.
It seems the manufacturer got the length of the bends in that particular metal rod wrong by a few mm.
Try the zip tie and Let us know if it works for you as well.

Yeah I agree with you but the reason mine was not moving enough was because the handle mechanism was broken so not moving it up enough I used a small nut and bolt through the slot instead of a zip tie to achieve the same outcome but it was just temporary but did work, I have highlighted the area on the pic below

 

[Vic. Parsons.]

Yeah I agree with you but the reason mine was not moving enough was because the handle mechanism was broken so not moving it up enough I used a small nut and bolt through the slot instead of a zip tie to achieve the same outcome but it was just temporary but did work, I have highlighted the area on the pic below

View attachment 340899

It's been a while since I looked at my friends lock mechanism so wasn't absolutely sure of the part. As I remember, he had to pull quite hard on the outside handle, so maybe after time it would damage the handle itself.
It may be because Pilote changed the whole thing, that this solution worked for him, but it looks like yours must have developed another problem.
Not a good lock all round really, as you say, a bit over complicated.

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

Yup, dealt with the slack problem last time. Instead of the zip tie method I used an mate nut glued to the top of the rod bracket to take up the slack. Like your chums van it was/is always easier to open it form the inside than the outside, just a piss-poor design really. The cynic in me can't help feel that it's designed poorly so they can charge you £140 for a new handle...I don't bloody think so! I'd rather jury rig a string pull and hang it out the window; bandits!

The problem I have is a wee bit different. I'm sitting here tapping away just waiting for the weather to improve so I can go out and have another crack at it; I shall not be beaten!

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

A slow rotting scrotum related death to auto correct! It should read "mate nut".

I didn't use one of my mates nuts.

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[Bonkers the Dog]

ah! I give up.....

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

So. After much disassembly, swearing, skint knuckles and coo-like peering I think I have it....

It's definitely f**cked.

Close examination reveals that the grey, moulded plastic handle housing has a hair line crack in it and the 4 cm spindle that the handle and its counter weights are attached to and pivot round is cracked longitudinally, a very weird failure method, looks like an inherent casting problem as I think it may be sintered powdered metal.

But who knows? What I can't figure out is how those two failures stop the dead lock mechanism from re-engaging. The three different faults seem unrelated. But then again, I am no engineer.

So the only option is to replace as the two local Hartal agents weren't interested in helping me, neither was the local mobile man. Must be nice to be able to turn down business...w******s.

It's all turning into a bit of a Saga, as usual.

Hurumph.

 

[Ditcha]

Yeah that was exactly my problem if you look at my pics the parts with the cross on them I epoxyed them on were the crack was and re-tightened the shaft even tough it was cracked in half it lasted for a while but steadily worsened when I bought the new handle it was £105 delivered but price has changed now, but once fitted all worked fine again.

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

How did you disconnect the connecting rods? They seem jammed in their housing really tightly, I tried prying one out with some pliers but I stopped in case of over enthusiastic damage.

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

I have found a replacement for £90...but I can't see if it comes with the internals. The actual door is called, "Hartal Lux" who'd a thunk it? I currently have feelers out to dealers.

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[Ditcha]

How did you disconnect the connecting rods? They seem jammed in their housing really tightly, I tried prying one out with some pliers but I stopped in case of over enthusiastic damage.

You need to unclip them use a screwdriver to ease the black plastic clips off rods