Google/Nest cameras cloud servers being shut down. Devices becoming bricks. (1 Viewer)

Jan 30, 2020
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Actually highlights a real problem, as in, what the companies believe the life of a product/service/app/cloud hosting to be and the consumer, could be wildly different… well moderately different at least!
 

GJH

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Actually highlights a real problem, as in, what the companies believe the life of a product/service/app/cloud hosting to be and the consumer, could be wildly different… well moderately different at least!
The commonest example over the years in my experience has been printers. Companies don't update drivers for new operating systems so they either don't work or don't function fully.
 
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The commonest example over the years in my experience has been printers. Companies don't update drivers for new operating systems so they either don't work or don't function fully.
I think that is a Windows specific problem isn't it? I think it has hit windows twice from memory. Windows up to version 3.11 all used the same drivers I seem to recall they were DOS drivers. Then windows 95 introduced a new architecture?
Those worked all the way through 98, ME and XP? Then in Vista they introduced signed drivers and this broke them again? Also perhaps 32 bit to 64 bit drivers caused an issue? But I think Vista drivers will still work on Windows 11 systems today?
I am not a windows person so don't know for sure. I stopped using windows in early 2000's and moved to Linux.

On Linux once a printer works, it works pretty much forever as the driver is "built into" the kernel. I don't know for sure but I think Apple only breaks stuff when they move to different architectures. Things broke when they launched OS/X as it was an entirely new OS architecture. Then they broke when they moved from PowerPC to Intel CPU?

Anyway all that is moot. With printer drivers you know it is coming and can plan for it long term. You are given years of your existing OS before it finally goes EOL and you lose that printer driver. With cloud hardware/software combinations they give you as little as a month or two's notice and then it bricks it.
 

Coolcats

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It's something we are all becoming hostage too. My Hive heating control didn't work when Hive went down, so how long before these companies start a subscription only service for smart homes?
Agreed Microsoft are slowly moving to a cloud only based service, an example is they would prefer you to use 365 office apps and not a one time purchase and their email service will no longer work with a 3rd party or outlook desk top client unless you pay money. It is extortion
 
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The commonest example over the years in my experience has been printers. Companies don't update drivers for new operating systems so they either don't work or don't function fully.
Never had that problem with any of my printers but I had a Samsung TV for the kitchen until Samsung took off the Youtube app when one year old, making it a brick for me. I don't think I'll ever buy a Samsung TV again.

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Never had that problem with any of my printers but I had a Samsung TV for the kitchen until Samsung took off the Youtube app when one year old, making it a brick for me. I don't think I'll ever buy a Samsung TV again.
I am not a fan of smart TV's. I would rather have a dumb TV and add features myself. But then again. I haven't had a TV for almost 18 years so...
 

GJH

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I think that is a Windows specific problem isn't it? I think it has hit windows twice from memory. Windows up to version 3.11 all used the same drivers I seem to recall they were DOS drivers. Then windows 95 introduced a new architecture?
Those worked all the way through 98, ME and XP? Then in Vista they introduced signed drivers and this broke them again? Also perhaps 32 bit to 64 bit drivers caused an issue? But I think Vista drivers will still work on Windows 11 systems today?
I am not a windows person so don't know for sure. I stopped using windows in early 2000's and moved to Linux.

On Linux once a printer works, it works pretty much forever as the driver is "built into" the kernel. I don't know for sure but I think Apple only breaks stuff when they move to different architectures. Things broke when they launched OS/X as it was an entirely new OS architecture. Then they broke when they moved from PowerPC to Intel CPU?

Anyway all that is moot. With printer drivers you know it is coming and can plan for it long term. You are given years of your existing OS before it finally goes EOL and you lose that printer driver. With cloud hardware/software combinations they give you as little as a month or two's notice and then it bricks it.
I don't know whether it is Windows specific but have known it a number of times on different printers with different Windows versions. Printers still work to an extent using the drivers built into the OS but (as mentioned in my first post) often do not work fully. It doesn't affect all printers from all companies (for example I ran a HP Laserjet for years under various different Windows versions) but it does affect many. The problem has tended to rear its head when buying a new PC with a newer OS version. Whilst the printer (which may not be all that many years old) would continue to work happily on the old OS version that doesn't help if the PC has gone :)

I don't agree that there is little notice with cloud based systems. I was still working in IT when they first came out and one job I had to undertake was studying the terms and conditions which applied to them decide whether they were safe to use. A constant theme was that the supplier could withdraw whatever it wished to at any time so whilst the final notice might be only a month or two, notice has been built in from the start.
 

GJH

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Never had that problem with any of my printers but I had a Samsung TV for the kitchen until Samsung took off the Youtube app when one year old, making it a brick for me. I don't think I'll ever buy a Samsung TV again.
I won't buy Samsung these days. The most expensive printer brick we have ever had was a Samsung colour laser which refused to work after changing a PC; a reasonably new TV had to be replaced when Samsung neglected to keep licencing up to date (made even worse by them changing their minds after we had bought a new one because they said their decision was final) and (from my own experience anyway) their devices tend to contain far more bloatware than other manufacturers.
 
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Jan 30, 2020
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I don't know whether it is Windows specific but have known it a number of times on different printers with different Windows versions. Printers still work to an extent using the drivers built into the OS but (as mentioned in my first post) often do not work fully. It doesn't affect all printers from all companies (for example I ran a HP Laserjet for years under various different Windows versions) but it does affect many. The problem has tended to rear its head when buying a new PC with a newer OS version. Whilst the printer (which may not be all that many years old) would continue to work happily on the old OS version that doesn't help if the PC has gone :)

I don't agree that there is little notice with cloud based systems. I was still working in IT when they first came out and one job I had to undertake was studying the terms and conditions which applied to them decide whether they were safe to use. A constant theme was that the supplier could withdraw whatever it wished to at any time so whilst the final notice might be only a month or two, notice has been built in from the start.

Almost every bit of commercial software has open source in it, so you’re screwed anyway, either from a security perspective or support, EOL etc etc 🤷‍♂️
 
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Almost every bit of commercial software has open source in it, so you’re screwed anyway
I don't understand this. Can you explain what you mean please?

I am 100% open source except for 2 bits of software which I can easily replace with alternatives. Not had any issues.

Centos for instance which I have relied on for decades was suddenly ceased and EOL'd with very little warning. Because it was opensource it was simply forked and another organisation took over maintenance of this fork (Rocky Linux).

Open source to me is better than commercial proprietary.

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Also on opensource. I refuse point blank to use anything linked to Oracle.

I was using MySQL and OpenOffice. Both of which ended up in Oracle's grubby mitts.

I now use MariaDB and LibreOffice which are forks of the above and are in fact better than the originals now.
 

kevenh

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they would prefer you to use 365 office apps
They’d prefer you to and office 365 is what you’d end up with just clicking through their default OS installation options but buy once Office is on their online store yy
 
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Never had that problem with any of my printers but I had a Samsung TV for the kitchen until Samsung took off the Youtube app when one year old, making it a brick for me. I don't think I'll ever buy a Samsung TV again.
Sony do the same with other services on their tvs.
 

Coolcats

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They’d prefer you to and office 365 is what you’d end up with just clicking through their default OS installation options but buy once Office is on their online store (y)
I am wondering how long that will be an option, they have de-featured office and you just get the basics, which is what most people want but suspect it is only time before being able to buy office and use it without an annual subscription to 365
 

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The TV we changed to was sony because we have had these for years and the current lot are android so no restriction on the apps you can add.
We have a Phillips TV, it is powered by Android but never ever connect it to the internet. Why would I want apps on a TV?
 
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I am wondering how long that will be an option, they have de-featured office and you just get the basics, which is what most people want but suspect it is only time before being able to buy office and use it without an annual subscription to 365
Most of the big software vendors appear to be moving to the subscription only model. Adobe and MS are not alone in this :( Thankfully I don't use any software like that.
 

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I am not a fan of smart TV's. I would rather have a dumb TV and add features myself. But then again. I haven't had a TV for almost 18 years so...
As above our smart TV is dumb it isn’t connected to the internet.
 
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As above our smart TV is dumb it isn’t connected to the internet.
If you dont make use of the smart features why did you bother buying a smart one?

We have a smart tv and do make use of it.

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Coolcats

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If you dont make use of the smart features why did you bother buying a smart one?

We have a smart tv and do make use of it.
Most if not all TV’s have an underlying operating system such as Android in this case owned by Google, Google wants your data and uses it to make money. I am not naive enough to let Google have my data, the argument of ‘I have nothing to hide’ is a poor one in that Google wants to profile each and every one of us, then sell services and products or push information (adverts) to influence our purchases it’s all aimed at making Google richer.

So coming back to the TV it’s hard to buy a quality TV without it being ‘smart’ but what you can do is to choose not to connect it to the internet or if you do as we have done via a separate computer.

Amazon, Google, Facebook all want your data, I’m not paranoid just careful and would hope others are the same.
 
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We have a Phillips TV, it is powered by Android but never ever connect it to the internet. Why would I want apps on a TV?
Because most of TV content is Cr*p and repeats and is not on when you want to watch. Simples!
 

Coolcats

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Because most of TV content is Cr*p and repeats and is not on when you want to watch. Simples!
I did not say I don’t stream, I choose the device to watch TV on, you can stream the programs from free view sites such as the bbc itv ch4 5 etc but you do not have to use a TV app to do this and avoid Google Amazon as far as possible etc. to do this I have a Mac Mini and an Apple TV. I choose to use Duck Duck Go for my search engine rather than Google this reduces what information Google and Amazon get. I also get my films via Curzon or Apple. Data may be collected but not used in the. Same way as Amazon or Google. You have choices in how much data to give away and how much TV to watch and who to get it from. We never listen to adverts we always mute the sound.

So there we have it, it’s about choice and ours is to give as little away as possible and to add we would never ever have a smart speaker that listens to every conversation.
 
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I don't know whether it is Windows specific but have known it a number of times on different printers with different Windows versions. Printers still work to an extent using the drivers built into the OS but (as mentioned in my first post) often do not work fully. It doesn't affect all printers from all companies (for example I ran a HP Laserjet for years under various different Windows versions) but it does affect many. The problem has tended to rear its head when buying a new PC with a newer OS version. Whilst the printer (which may not be all that many years old) would continue to work happily on the old OS version that doesn't help if the PC has gone :)

I don't agree that there is little notice with cloud based systems. I was still working in IT when they first came out and one job I had to undertake was studying the terms and conditions which applied to them decide whether they were safe to use. A constant theme was that the supplier could withdraw whatever it wished to at any time so whilst the final notice might be only a month or two, notice has been built in from the start.

I hate Microshaft and its endlessly fiddling with its OS and changing menus and commands for no good reason. GJH has explained why I still have a laptop running XP Pro, mainly so I can carry on using my trusty 20-year-old HP Laserjet, and my slightly younger HP scanner/copier and its clever software. There is some faff involved in stransferring documents, but that saves buying new peripherals. I also don't want to send a perfectly good working printer etc to the tip. Manufacturers are trying to force us to replace every kind of consumer goods at least every 5 years and also making them unrepairable. Not great for the environment. Very wasteful.

I don't trust e-books for similar reasons. An e-library in the cloud can easily disappear overnight, with or without notice. They may be cheaper initially than printed books, but at least the hard copy version isn't ephemeral, subject to the whims of e-commerce. In several ways it is a store of value. Real books can increase in value, especially rare 1st editions signed by the author. Win-win.
 

kevenh

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On the flipside, I’m many years into researching just what the issue is using connected devices, opting into the most verbose feedback with devices and website cookies, etc.
My life is unchanged with Amazon, Google etc. knowing even the extra stuff let alone the basics.

I often precipitate in beta release programs of software and hardware so that’s where opting into sending diagnostic info started but even outside of beta programs, if developers can improve their released apps with this feedback, I’m glad to help.

I’m not gullible and look for unsolicited info requests.
Mrskevenh never accepts updates, cookies, etc. and gets cross when she can’t get info she wants or apps stop working. Hmm!

If I was concerned about customer data usage, apple would be included as someone to be concerned about but I’ve provided sources for why before - obviously unheeded or their customer data usage deemed to be OK 🤷‍♂️

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