Gearbox filler / breather?

[Allanm]

Found a small oil leak from one of the driveshafts a few weeks ago ( 2018 Ducato 2.3) so took it to our local Fiat Professional and they replaced the seal. Great.
Took the van home and it has been parked for just over a week on the lawn. I moved it on Saturday and found an oil patch on the grass, about 4 inches across.
Thinking the seal was leaking again, I looked under the van. Driveshaft seal is fine, but I noticed oil just about to drip off the gearbox drain plug. Wiped it of and the drain plug moved!
They obviously hadn’t tightened it up properly so oil has leaked out.
Problem is, how much has gone missing and without emptying it out and measuring it, there is no way of checking.
I’m not risking a drive to the garage so drove in the car.
Typical French garage, no mechanics in today but I spoke to someone on the desk who said I need to speak to one of the mechanics, can I come back tomorrow? I may need to get the van recovered to the garage to sort it out.
Well, no, I didn’t fancy another drive back and dont want to wait till they could see it, so I said give me 3 litres of gearbox oil and I’ll change it myself. At least I know it’s done right!
So, armed with the oil, I am assuming I empty out the old oil and refill via the breather on top of the gearbox?

This one with the black plastic cap?

 

[pappajohn]

If you haven't tightened the drain bung I would wipe off any oil and put a receptacle under it, leave for the same length of time plus a day to account for it being stationary and see how much oil has collected..
It may be as little as an egg cup full and not worth bothering about.
I doubt the garage would do more than put a cupful in and call it done....or maybe just tighten the bung.

 

[tacr2man]

I would be putting a full synthetic in to make the most of the opportunity .

 

[Stealaway]

I would be putting a full synthetic in to make the most of the opportunity .

Why fully synthetic? What type is the standard oil?

 

[Silver-Fox]

I’d be informing the garage they better come and collect it and do a full oil replacement foc if it’s down to them.

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[Allanm]

The garage gave me 3 litres of the proper oil, which is fully synthetic anyway. Unfortunately, I tightened up the drain plug as the oil killed a patch of grass, otherwise ( PJ) that would have been the thing to do.

Here’s the grass....the stain is about 6 inches across, so not just a couple of drips.

 

[pappajohn]

Looks to me like they put some old engine oil in after doing the seal going by the colour of that staining.
I've taken cleaner oil out of a diesel engine.
Gearbox oil isn't subject to hydrocarbons like engine oil and should be nearly as clean as the day it went in.

 

[Deneb]

Found a small oil leak from one of the driveshafts a few weeks ago ( 2018 Ducato 2.3) so took it to our local Fiat Professional and they replaced the seal. Great.
Took the van home and it has been parked for just over a week on the lawn. I moved it on Saturday and found an oil patch on the grass, about 4 inches across.
Thinking the seal was leaking again, I looked under the van. Driveshaft seal is fine, but I noticed oil just about to drip off the gearbox drain plug. Wiped it of and the drain plug moved!
They obviously hadn’t tightened it up properly so oil has leaked out.
Problem is, how much has gone missing and without emptying it out and measuring it, there is no way of checking.
I’m not risking a drive to the garage so drove in the car.
Typical French garage, no mechanics in today but I spoke to someone on the desk who said I need to speak to one of the mechanics, can I come back tomorrow? I may need to get the van recovered to the garage to sort it out.
Well, no, I didn’t fancy another drive back and dont want to wait till they could see it, so I said give me 3 litres of gearbox oil and I’ll change it myself. At least I know it’s done right!
So, armed with the oil, I am assuming I empty out the old oil and refill via the breather on top of the gearbox?

This one with the black plastic cap?

View attachment 323951

Yes, that's the breather. The cap just pulls off, although it helps if you twist it slightly.

If you don't know how much oil is in the gearbox, the only way to fix it is to drain it and refill with the correct quantity, there is no level hole or other way of measuring the correct oil level.

When you replace the drain plug, it is supposed to be fitted with a thread locking sealant, so you need to ensure that the threads in both the plug and casing are clean before refitting.

Although not the 3-litre engine, I recently changed the oil in my box and refilled it with fully synthetic Tutela Matryx instead of the Tutela Experya oil used in the factory. It is much smoother since the change with none of the slight notchiness that it has always exhibited from new.

It may be worth checking with your dealer what quantity of oil is currently recommended for your box. Fiat state 2.7 litres for mine, but this has apparently recently been raised to 2.9 litres.

 

[Deneb]

Looks to me like they put some old engine oil in after doing the seal going by the colour of that staining.
I've taken cleaner oil out of a diesel engine.
Gearbox oil isn't subject to hydrocarbons like engine oil and should be nearly as clean as the day it went in.

At least some of the Tutela transmission oil has a dye in it. Depending on the type, it may be black, brown or red.

 

[pappajohn]

Never used these fancy manufacturer designer oils.
Last time I needed gearbox oil it was Hypoid EP90..

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[Allanm]

Thanks Deneb, that’s what I thought. I just drained the oil and measured the amount. The handbook ( and garage) says 2.7 litres for the manual ( 2.9 for the comfort Matic) Just under 2.7 litres came out, so not a lot leaked out.
This is the oil, not pretty!

The oil the garage gave me was a pale yellow in colour. I’ll let the oil drain for a bit longer then fill it up with 2.7 litres.

 

[Deneb]

The oil the garage gave me was a pale yellow in colour. I’ll let the oil drain for a bit longer then fill it up with 2.7 litres.

If yours was also 2.7 litres, I'm pretty sure it will be 2.9 litres now as well. The extra 0.2 litres won't do any harm, anyway.

 

[gus-lopez]

Looks to me like they put some old engine oil in after doing the seal going by the colour of that staining.
I've taken cleaner oil out of a diesel engine.
Gearbox oil isn't subject to hydrocarbons like engine oil and should be nearly as clean as the day it went in.

What pj said. It should look the same colour coming out as it went in- Pale yellow-That looks like it's been in the engine ?

 

[Allanm]

If yours was also 2.7 litres, I'm pretty sure it will be 2.9 litres now as well. The extra 0.2 litres won't do any harm, anyway.

My handbook says 2.7 litres, which engine do you have in yours?

 

[Deneb]

My handbook says 2.7 litres, which engine do you have in yours?

2.3 multijet with the MLGU 6-speed gearbox. My handbook also says 2.7 litres but a Fiat mechanic says that replacement boxes are now being delivered with 2.9 litres fill specified and Citroen now specify 2.9 litres for the same 6-speed MLGU box in the Relay.
5-speed are still 2.7 litres apparently.

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[Silver-Fox]

What pj said. It should look the same colour coming out as it went in- Pale yellow-That looks like it's been in the engine ?

Wonder if it smells of diesel as that will tell you.
I’m surprised fresh oil wasn’t used, especially if the box was drained.

 

[Stealaway]

Leave the oil standing for a day or two and it will separate and the black gunk will sink to the bottom. Have a close look at the sludge.

 

[pappajohn]

What pj said. It should look the same colour coming out as it went in- Pale yellow-That looks like it's been in the engine ?

Wonder if it smells of diesel as that will tell you.
I’m surprised fresh oil wasn’t used, especially if the box was drained.

Leave the oil standing for a day or two and it will separate and the black gunk will sink to the bottom. Have a close look at the sludge.

Maybe as Deneb said in post #9. Some designer oil has a dye added..... Though god only knows why.
I would think if they had renewed it it would be the same pale yellow stuff as the 3ltrs later supplied.

 

[HandyAndy]

I don't know your gearbox well at all but most gearboxes have a side bung similar to the drain where you fill til it spills out. What you are pointing to is the breather.

 

[tacr2man]

Why fully synthetic? What type is the standard oil?

The oe spec was a mineral oil , although that may have changed now .
A good full synthetic gives much better protection especially when high stress situations .
some synthetics are duck egg blue , also seen bright red and honey yellow .

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[pappajohn]

I don't know your gerrbox well at all but most gearboxes have a side bung similar to the drain where you fill til it spills out. What you are pointing to is the breather.

I think that was in the days when engines took 20/50 and gearbox/diff took EP90.
Today they seem to go by measured volume.

 

[Deneb]

I don't know your gearbox well at all but most gearboxes have a side bung similar to the drain where you fill til it spills out. What you are pointing to is the breather.

Which is where Fiat instruct it to be filled from, because there is no filling point as such and no way of checking the level externally.

 

[HandyAndy]

That answers that then ???

 

[Allanm]

I don't know your gearbox well at all but most gearboxes have a side bung similar to the drain where you fill til it spills out. What you are pointing to is the breather.

I looked all over the gearbox,( from what I could see) but couldn’t see a level plug anywhere.
Anyway, filled it up with 2.7 litres through the breather, but will probably put in a bit more as Deneb suggested.

 

[Landy Andy]

I changed my gearbox oil, and replaced it with 2.7ltrs of fully synth oil. I then found after being parked up on uneven ground that I got gearbox shudder for the first few miles after starting. I’ve then researched a bit about the gbox and have added the extra to equal 3ltrs and the shudder, so far, has disappeared. I didn’t have the shudder, or any sign of it before oil change.
This is on a six speed manual box.

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[Allanm]

Maybe as Deneb said in post #9. Some designer oil has a dye added..... Though god only knows why.
I would think if they had renewed it it would be the same pale yellow stuff as the 3ltrs later supplied.

When I first noticed the leak, the oil was quite dark. I can only assume they have refilled the gearbox with the original oil. Whether that was dark to begin with or has changed colour, which is unlikely, I don’t know.
I have left the original oil standing overnight and decanted it carefully into another clear container, there was no sign of any sludge at the bottom. I’ll leave it a few days and have another look.

 

[MR. FUSION]

I would be putting a full synthetic in to make the most of the opportunity .

Fully synthetic = night & day difference to my gear change

 

[Hettie's Crew]

2.3 multijet with the MLGU 6-speed gearbox. My handbook also says 2.7 litres but a Fiat mechanic says that replacement boxes are now being delivered with 2.9 litres fill specified and Citroen now specify 2.9 litres for the same 6-speed MLGU box in the Relay.
5-speed are still 2.7 litres apparently.

I know this thread is three years old but Ive just changed my gearbox oil on our 2014 X250 2.3ltr 150bhp 6 Speed. There was just a slight fuzziness of shavings on the magnetic drain plug. Based on your information, plus Fiat Forum searching I went for 2.9 litres of the Tutela Matryx. There was no real need to change the oil at such low mileage (25k) but I like to know what’s in there and hopefully keep it all tip top.
2.9 litres appears to be the now recommended amount but I can’t help thinking that’s because of box changes from our 2014, though 200ml extra won’t harm.

 

[Landy Andy]

I just put 3 litres in mine as that is what I had to buy. No problems with a good few thousand miles done.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I just put 3 litres in mine as that is what I had to buy. No problems with a good few thousand miles done.

I was tempted to put the full 3 litres in but stuck to the 2.9, so now I’ve got 100ml of Tulela Matryx sat on a self in the garage. Got it from Alfashop at the bargain price of £12.72 a litre compared to £20-24 elseware.

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