ETIAS & third country passport holder travelling with Schengen passport holder (1 Viewer)

[Nigel Crompton]

I think there are funsters, British passport holders, who travel with partners who are Schengen passport holders. This permits the 'third country' passport holder to bypass the 90/180 rules.

Once ETIAS is implemented, unless this situation has been factored in, the computer klaxon is likely to go off.

Anyone know if, and what, arrangements will be in place to allow a 'third country' passport holder back in Schengen with a Schengen passport holder, when the former has used the 90/180 allowance?

Hmmm ...

(asking for a friend)

 

[BriannYe]

what nationality is youe wife,, mine is Thai married 28 years but she can only stay in UK 6 months at a time ...so needs Schengen Visa when in EU

My wife is Chinese but she has Leave to Remain and a BRP

 

[BriannYe]

what nationality is youe wife,, mine is Thai married 28 years but she can only stay in UK 6 months at a time ...so needs Schengen Visa when in EU

My wife is Chinese, she has Leave to Remain and a BRP for the UK. She still needs Schengen visa for Europe.

 

[Bailey58]

I think there are funsters, British passport holders, who travel with partners who are Schengen passport holders. This permits the 'third country' passport holder to bypass the 90/180 rules.

Once ETIAS is implemented, unless this situation has been factored in, the computer klaxon is likely to go off.

Anyone know if, and what, arrangements will be in place to allow a 'third country' passport holder back in Schengen with a Schengen passport holder, when the former has used the 90/180 allowance?

Hmmm ...

(asking for a friend)

We both keep asking the same question but the answers, like the rules, are anyone's guess.

 

[The Wino]

We both keep asking the same question but the answers, like the rules, are anyone's guess.

The new system should make it work better as they will know when each person is in Schengen

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[Nigel Crompton]

The new system should make it work better as they will know when each person is in Schengen

But will a third country passport holder who has travelled for, say 80 consecutive days, with a Schengen passport holder, when subsequently entering Schengen solo will 'the system' recognise that the previous 80 days travel does not count towards the 90/180 allowance ?
Hmmmmm ?
THAT is the question.

 

[Orion]

The new system should make it work better as they will know when each person is in Schengen

But how will the new system know when I’m travelling with my Irish wife, and not subject to the 90/180 regulations, and when I’m travelling solo and the 90/180 applies? My passport is stamped on entry and exit in both situations and likewise will be scanned and my movements logged in future.

 

[Nigel Crompton]

Eggersactly!

 

[The Wino]

But how will the new system know when I’m travelling with my Irish wife, and not subject to the 90/180 regulations, and when I’m travelling solo and the 90/180 applies? My passport is stamped on entry and exit in both situations and likewise will be scanned and my movements logged in future.

Presumably the system will know if you have both entered Schengen at the same time and will count your days if she leaves Schengen before you as your allowance. It does sound more generous than we are to spouses of UK passport holders visiting the UK!

 

[OldCodger]

I’m confused.com (easily done)

If I read it right ETIAS puts a US style visa waiver in place for Third Country entrants to Schengen (and / or) the EU. It will all be tracked in the EES?

What is the difference between EES and biometric passports? From what I’ve read EES will “replaced the old outdated stamp in the passport”.

My photo is already used in the eGate scanners in the UK and EU to prove I am me. So how will EES make it less open to abuse?

I’ve no problem with the system providing it is robust and implemented to allow rapid verification (more rapid than US airports, purleese) but how will it make it better?

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[BriannYe]

My question will Schengen visa holders who have already provided biometric details have to have an EES as well.

 

[The Wino]

I’m confused.com (easily done)

If I read it right ETIAS puts a US style visa waiver in place for Third Country entrants to Schengen (and / or) the EU. It will all be tracked in the EES?

What is the difference between EES and biometric passports? From what I’ve read EES will “replaced the old outdated stamp in the passport”.

My photo is already used in the eGate scanners in the UK and EU to prove I am me. So how will EES make it less open to abuse?

I’ve no problem with the system providing it is robust and implemented to allow rapid verification (more rapid than US airports, purleese) but how will it make it better?

I presume because it adds fingerprints to the data to make it more accurate. I don't know what the odds are of mistaken identity with the photo currently used for biometric analysis but adding fingerprints must make the odds of impersonating someone else really small. Also at present if the photographic gate refuses entry you visit a border guard in person if they have fingerprint data as well it will be an extra layer of security.

 

[gus-lopez]

will Schengen visa holders who have already provided biometric details have to have an EES

You will be pleased to know that,like us Brits resident in other eu states , your wife will not have to provide anything further as she has already done so for the visa.
Here;
If you need a visa to enter the Schengen area, your fingerprints will already be stored in the Visa Information System and will not be stored again in the EES.
from;

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/general-information_en

 

[Orion]

You will be pleased to know that,like us Brits resident in other eu states , your wife will not have to provide anything further as she has already done so for the visa.
Here;
If you need a visa to enter the Schengen area, your fingerprints will already be stored in the Visa Information System and will not be stored again in the EES.
from;

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/general-information_en

Thanks for that link. I’ve trawled through it and the FAQs, and there’s scant reference to third-country nationals married to EU state citizens and how the practicalities will affect them.

However, in the text of the EES Regulation there is this:

2. On each entry of a third-country national subject to a visa requirement at a border at which the EES is operated, the following data shall be entered in an entry/exit record:

(a)	the date and time of the entry;

(b)	the border crossing point of the entry and the authority that authorised the entry;

(c)

where applicable, the status of that third-country national indicating that he or she is a third-country national who: (i) is a member of the family of a Union citizen to whom Directive 2004/38/EC applies or of a national of a third country enjoying the right of free movement equivalent to that of Union citizens under an agreement between the Union and its Member States, on the one hand, and a third country, on the other; and (ii) does not hold a residence card pursuant to Directive 2004/38/EC or a residence permit pursuant to Regulation (EC) No 1030/2002;

So according to (c)(i) it appears that there will be a facility to have the information placed on our digital records at the point of entry to avoid being flagged as an overstayer if going over the 90/180 restriction. Marriage certificate at the ready then!

Regulation - 2017/2226 - EN - EUR-Lex

eur-lex.europa.eu

 

[nicholsong]

You will be pleased to know that,like us Brits resident in other eu states , your wife will not have to provide anything further as she has already done so for the visa.
Here;
If you need a visa to enter the Schengen area, your fingerprints will already be stored in the Visa Information System and will not be stored again in the EES.
from;

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/general-information_en

Richard

I have read your link above, amongst other information.

It is quite obvious that EU Nationals and EU Residents are exempt from both ETIAS and EES.

However there is no information as to which channel we should go through at emigration/immigration. Although exempt, if we have to queue with those who are not, there seems to be no advantage in being exempt.

I am thinking in particular of somewhere like Dover outbound from UK. If one has to queue behind non-exempt persons, particularly in the period of introduction of ETIAS when many UK citizens will have to be processed.

When are the authorities going to release information in order that we can plan trips without encountering huge delays, which would be unnecessary since we are exempt from ETIAS and EES?

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[Carpmart]

Richard

I have read your link above, amongst other information.

It is quite obvious that EU Nationals and EU Residents are exempt from both ETIAS and EES.

However there is no information as to which channel we should go through at emigration/immigration. Although exempt, if we have to queue with those who are not, there seems to be no advantage in being exempt.

I am thinking in particular of somewhere like Dover outbound from UK. If one has to queue behind non-exempt persons, particularly in the period of introduction of ETIAS when many UK citizens will have to be processed.

When are the authorities going to release information in order that we can plan trips without encountering huge delays, which would be unnecessary since we are exempt from ETIAS and EES?

And what happens with one exempt traveller and one third country national in the same Motorhome. Hoping my EU wife gives me some priority! Fat chance!

 

[OldCodger]

You will be pleased to know that,like us Brits resident in other eu states , your wife will not have to provide anything further as she has already done so for the visa.
Here;
If you need a visa to enter the Schengen area, your fingerprints will already be stored in the Visa Information System and will not be stored again in the EES.
from;

https://travel-europe.europa.eu/ees/general-information_en

Intriguing, when we got our residency visa (only for the application not actual residency) they didn’t take my “biometrics”. But when I went for the actual permit application they took the lot. Not sure how good the “images” of my fingerprints are they had big red crosses under them……

 

[gus-lopez]

Richard

I have read your link above, amongst other information.

It is quite obvious that EU Nationals and EU Residents are exempt from both ETIAS and EES.

However there is no information as to which channel we should go through at emigration/immigration. Although exempt, if we have to queue with those who are not, there seems to be no advantage in being exempt.

I am thinking in particular of somewhere like Dover outbound from UK. If one has to queue behind non-exempt persons, particularly in the period of introduction of ETIAS when many UK citizens will have to be processed.

When are the authorities going to release information in order that we can plan trips without encountering huge delays, which would be unnecessary since we are exempt from ETIAS and EES?

I don't think there will be Geoff. Even if you had your own lane & went through you still have to wait for all those who have to be processed?

 

[nicholsong]

I don't think there will be Geoff. Even if you had your own lane & went through you still have to wait for all those who have to be processed?

If you are right, is that not going to significantly deter EU tourists from visiting UK, if they have long queues to return to EU?

 

[OldCodger]

If you are right, is that not going to significantly deter EU tourists from visiting UK, if they have long queues to return to EU?

Only if it is worse for residents than “foreigners”. You expect queues at passport control, it happens everywhere.

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[rb62]

Can't say I'm looking forward to all this. it will be fine at airports, but how on earth will it work at car ferry terminals or the tunnel? If I'm correct then each person will need to go through facial or finger print recognition equipment? It's bad enough as it is at the moment with border control having to flick through passports to find in/out stamps.

Eurotunnel are building large covered areas at the English and French terminals which will house automated self check in booths so you have to park beside the booth leave you vehicle,scan passport,face and fingerprints and get back in vehicle,they say it will add 7mins to check in time Ferries are using iPads

 

[Soycd]

Eurotunnel are building large covered areas at the English and French terminals which will house automated self check in booths so you have to park beside the booth leave you vehicle,scan passport,face and fingerprints and get back in vehicle,they say it will add 7mins to check in time Ferries are using iPads

View attachment 894540

7 minutes, they are talking nonsense, to put it politely!! So parents with three kids in a car will be able to get through in 7 minutes. I'm usually a optimistic sort of bloke, but this sounds like chaos will reign. What about a coach load of our elderly citizens with mobility issues, or anybody with mobility issues come to that? I think the best plan will be to travel on the tunnel/ferry in the middle of the night at off peak times.

 

[Soycd]

If you are right, is that not going to significantly deter EU tourists from visiting UK, if they have long queues to return to EU?

Good point. If you have the freedom to travel all over Europe without any border controls, then some folk may think twice before coming here? Certainly would put me off if I were coming for a short, few days, trip.

 

[The Wino]

Good point. If you have the freedom to travel all over Europe without any border controls, then some folk may think twice before coming here? Certainly would put me off if I were coming for a short, few days, trip.

The logical thing would be to adopt a similar system here that integrates with the EU one so we have easy transport to the EU and them here together with increased security and the benefits that biometric id bring. Imagine the outcry from some quarters!

 

[Carpmart]

The logical thing would be to adopt a similar system here that integrates with the EU one so we have easy transport to the EU and them here together with increased security and the benefits that biometric id bring. Imagine the outcry from some quarters!

What you mean like full integrated almost borderless travel! Sounds great to me!

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[Soycd]

Eurotunnel boss plays down new European entry system delay fears | Travel Weekly

No long queues of vehicles expected

travelweekly.co.uk

Nice line part way through says:
Yann Leriche told the BBC that travellers “will simply [get] out of their car, spend a few minutes on their kiosks, and go back to their car and continue their journey”.
Anyone who has travelled with children or physically challenged people will know that "simply get out of the car" is a joke.

 

[tonyysue]

Can't say I'm looking forward to all this. it will be fine at airports, but how on earth will it work at car ferry terminals or the tunnel? If I'm correct then each person will need to go through facial or finger print recognition equipment? It's bad enough as it is at the moment with border control having to flick through passports to find in/out stamps.

There will be a ‘fudge’ !

 

[Carpmart]

There will be a ‘fudge’ !

Good ‘topic’ this!

 

[Soycd]

There will be a ‘fudge’ !

Or mayhem, take your pick!

 

[helen peters]

I think that's what I said in the first line of my post ....

I think you said Schengen passport holders when in fact it’s any EU passport holders, like me, with an Irish passport.

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[helen peters]

But will a third country passport holder who has travelled for, say 80 consecutive days, with a Schengen passport holder, when subsequently entering Schengen solo will 'the system' recognise that the previous 80 days travel does not count towards the 90/180 allowance ?
Hmmmmm ?
THAT is the question.

I guess worst case we will need to carry a copy of previous travel tickets to prove we were with spouse….and be prepared to argue your case!