Ensuring manuals are part of the sale agreement

[nicholsong]

Jim

We often see members on here asking for manuals for either the base vehicle or the motorhome conversion, or for information which they would find in them if they had one.

I personally cannot conceive of buying a vehicle without an 'Owner's Manual'. I believe that every buyer should make the supply of such manuals, plus those for fitted equipment, a condition of sale.

The MHFun 'Buyer's Guide does contain in 'Section 43. Documents' reference to handbooks for appliances, but does not mention the Manuals for base vehicles and the motorhome itself.

Jim I think that those manuals should be included. Furthermore I also think that the presence or absence of them should be brought up much earlier in the buying process, so perhaps that could be included at an appropriate stage in the Guide.

Geoff

 

[PhilandMena]

Easy enough to get online for free I would assume. It always surprises me the number of members who would ask a question on here, rather than look in their manual.

 

[nicholsong]

Easy enough to get online for free I would assume. It always surprises me the number of members who would ask a question on here, rather than look in their manual.

My experience is that manuals that were originally supplied in paper form, maybe 20 years ago, have not retrospectively been put online when the manufacturer decided at some point to only supply online.

 

[makems]

Use a complex piece of equipment in my band. I count myself as reasonably expert in its use but I still refer to the manual occasionally.
there is a facebook group for users of that kit and it is constantly bombarded with basic questions that a single reading of just the intro section of the manual would answer.
i always try to be helpful but if its a real ”how do I switch it on” type question I always ask if they have read the manual and attach a link so they can download all 170 pages of it.
I just can’t comprehend having complex kit and not bothering to make any effort to find out how to use it!

 

[funflair]

My experience is that manuals that were originally supplied in paper form, maybe 20 years ago, have not retrospectively been put online when the manufacturer decided at some point to only supply online.

A good example being the excellent N+B paper manual, but not available online as far as I know.

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[Bailey58]

I've discovered things on my refurbished Lenovo laptop since I found the manual online.

 

[nicholsong]

A good example being the excellent N+B paper manual, but not available online as far as I know.

I agree with that about our N&B Manual - excellent for our Arto 2003 - I did find one spelling mistake in our English version I think N&B are well up with the aircraft manuals I have used. Congratulations to them.

Martin, how is your Morelo manual in comparison? Well you can show it to me at the Open.

 

[Jev88]

Older MH often had poor manuals or none at all! And that assumes nobody has ever replaced anything or had to upgrade something, making the original manual useless. Far better to search out individual manuals for appliances and get a manual yourself for the base vehicle.

 

[pappajohn]

It always surprises me the number of members who would ask a question on here, rather than look in their manual.

That's what keeps the forum alive.

 

[funflair]

I agree with that about our N&B Manual - excellent for our Arto 2003 - I did find one spelling mistake in our English version I think N&B are well up with the aircraft manuals I have used. Congratulations to them.

Martin, how is your Morelo manual in comparison? Well you can show it to me at the Open.

It’s all on memory stick so I just put in on my computer, it’s rather generic and a little outdated but OK I guess, the one thing I will say in their favour though is that they have quite a few instructional videos on their web site that cover what might be common issues, emergency winding of the front blind, reset or manually wind the hydraulic jacks, reset fuses for active air suspension etc etc. But as somebody else said people still don’t read it no matter what format.

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[SpeedyDux]

Germans seem to go the extra mile for their customers although the French are quite good.

Rapido provided a small case containing a comprehensive set of manuals for all the habitation equipment, as well as the Fiat pack for the base vehicle. Very handy. The previous Westfalia campervan had a bespoke high quality owner's manual covering everything. Proper Job!

 

[Spriddler]

I find it odd that manuals are missing from motorhomes. I keep all my vehicles' manuals in the vehicle. Do dealers remove manuals in order to accumulate their own private reference library?

 

[dunnah01]

I have a proper copy of the manual for our 2011 Rapido in a nice canvas case and also another 1000 pages of manuals for as many of the bits not covered by the main manual. I've used the whole thing about 3 times but didn't find what I wanted anyway. Google was much better

 

[the1andonly]

Rapido again, supurb collection of individual manuals but the main Rapido book covers almost any thing and every thing that is fitted to any model that year. A 2 page insert covers the model details, but, nowhere is there correct info on tank sizes and some other stuff.

 

[Roby2008]

My Miller/Mobilvetta came with a zip bag with the Fiat base manuals and books for every appliance / system in the MH ( that bag went with the MH when it was sold), however although very useful there was not an overall guide to the MH and we didn´t get an intro, just here`s the keys and bye bye ..... as newbies at the time it was a jigsaw puzzle for the first season (or two) ...

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[Nanniemate]

Men don't read instructions, or manuals so I'm told

 

[Spriddler]

Men don't read instructions, or manuals so I'm told

Don't need to. Wimmin know everything.

 

[SpeedyDux]

My Miller/Mobilvetta came with a zip bag with the Fiat base manuals and books for every appliance / system in the MH ( that bag went with the MH when it was sold), however although very useful there was not an overall guide to the MH and we didn´t get an intro, just here`s the keys and bye bye ..... as newbies at the time it was a jigsaw puzzle for the first season (or two) ...

I assume you bought yours from a dealer. A very rushed and perfunctory handover by a lad who didn't have a lot of detailed knowledge of the model we were buying was our experience. Considering we had just transferred a large chunk of money to the dealer (Highbridge) it was far below expectations. I covered this is in some detail, including their cock-up followed by trying to fob us off with the wrong Fiamma awning, in the Fun review section. I suggest you do the same! Name and shame!

 

[CazPaul]

If you’re interested Geoff I have a Spanish manual for your van.

 

[Roby2008]

I assume you bought yours from a dealer. A very rushed and perfunctory handover by a lad who didn't have a lot of detailed knowledge of the model we were buying was our experience. Considering we had just transferred a large chunk of money to the dealer (Highbridge) it was far below expectations. I covered this is in some detail, including their cock-up followed by trying to fob us off with the wrong Fiamma awning, in the Fun review section. I suggest you do the same! Name and shame!

It was in 2013 and a German dealer, we learnt, found our way and never dealt with the dealer again, the new MH is a different brand, a review of the old MH would be out of date.
If you deal with a German dealer then the contract is everything, make sure everything that is promised is in the contract, we were promised seat covers, it wasn`t written down (we were newbies at this) so no chance in getting them, it´s not in the contract´ was the standard answer...
Dealers name available via message, naming and shaming here can bring all sorts of legal crap down on your head.

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[Tonks]

My experience is that manuals that were originally supplied in paper form, maybe 20 years ago, have not retrospectively been put online when the manufacturer decided at some point to only supply online.

True.
I also watched two 'handover' videos this morning, to try to help someone with a snag with their newly acquired van which is similar to mine but with a couple of in this instance crucial differences. One was very brief and showed only a very few of the van's features. The other one was filmed in such appalling lighting that the section I actually wanted to see was in total darkness! The latter also 'demonstrated' rolling out the awning with the door open on a vehicle which is known to need the door closed during the wind out process as otherwise the awning arms catch on the top of the sliding door and damage it.

That reminds me that I recently watched a supposed 'for sale' video from a big dealer a couple of weeks ago, where it was perfectly obvious that the two guys 'presenting' the van knew hardly anything about it. (That's a stretch, actually - I'm not sure they knew ANYTHING about it!) Again, if you're posting a video of a van for sale, surely it's worth actually making sure you know something about it before making said video?

In this day and age I fail to understand why any manufacturer/converter doesn't have decently lit and presented basic handover videos on their websites.

 

[Paul.]

I try to to read the electronic version of the manuals but somehow the information doesn't seem to sink in the same way as paper manuals. Perhaps it's an age thing

 

[L' Hobo]

Rapido again, supurb collection of individual manuals but the main Rapido book covers almost any thing and every thing that is fitted to any model that year. A 2 page insert covers the model details, but, nowhere is there correct info on tank sizes and some other stuff.

Yet another tick for Murvi.

When I purchased my 2007 Morello back in 2017, it came with a large cloth holdall containing individual manuals on ALL the equipment and a Fiat drivers handbook in the glove compartment + a FULL explanation of how to operate the equipment from Murvi.
(Sadly, for a mechanic such as I, there was no Workshop Manual but as I have downloaded the parts I need from the Fiat Forum, this has not been a problem.)

It also came with all the extra's purchase invoices, MOTs etc from the previous owner. I have continued this practice which will, hopefully, help the next owner. Hopefully, that will be a long time off.

 

[L' Hobo]

I try to to read the electronic version of the manuals but somehow the information doesn't seem to sink in the same way as paper manuals. Perhaps it's an age thing

I have the same problem so I print off the pages I need. As you say, it's probably an age thing for both of us?

 

[Jim]

We have well over a hundred manuals in our resource section. If you have one to share please upload it.

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[Orion]

When we collected our Adria we received a zipped cloth briefcase type bag courtesy of the dealership, containing a bulging manufacturers ring binder with inserts for all the third party component manuals. This is in addition to the very comprehensive Adria manual and the Fiat user guides.

 

[the1andonly]

We have well over a hundred manuals in our resource section. If you have one to share please upload it.

I've added to and used the resource section. It is a good resource, as jim implies MAKE IT BETTER.
Even with all my paper manuals i leave them at home and take soft copies on my phone and tablet.

 

[Rae83]

Easy enough to get online for free I would assume. It always surprises me the number of members who would ask a question on here, rather than look in their manual.

Unfortunately not always the case, I have been searching for an Adria Twin 640sgx manual online in English since buying ours last week to no avail... we have the manual that came with it however as we live in France and bought it in France it is understandable in French only and I am still learning the lingo so not able to quickly look in the manual for an answer yet... maybe in a year or so