Electrical Help Please (1 Viewer)

[Lagotto]

I have a 12v electric winch on a Motorcycle side loading trailer. The trailer (bought second hand) does not have a battery, but has a compartment for it and a hand held winch controller. I have tested the winch and it is working fine, but I now need to buy a dedicated battery for it. All I know is that the winch is 12v, rated at 2000lb and has a 12.5 no load amp rating (assume amps will rise when under load). Not being very knowledgeable about these things, what battery do I need? A simple 12v car battery, a smaller 12v motorcycle battery, a high quality or cheap one, does a winch need a specific type? Please help Im a bit lost here.

 

[Odd job]

Do you need a battery? can you run a lead from the towing vehicle? then load with the engine running and no power problems.

 

[bigtwin]

Do you need a battery? can you run a lead from the towing vehicle? then load with the engine running and no power problems.

Erm, I think there’s a big difference between the current required to light a few low wattage bulbs and powering a winch motor. There’s a reason why there’s a battery box on the trailer.

Ian

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[bigtwin]

I have a 12v electric winch on a Motorcycle side loading trailer. The trailer (bought second hand) does not have a battery, but has a compartment for it and a hand held winch controller. I have tested the winch and it is working fine, but I now need to buy a dedicated battery for it. All I know is that the winch is 12v, rated at 2000lb and has a 12.5 no load amp rating (assume amps will rise when under load). Not being very knowledgeable about these things, what battery do I need? A simple 12v car battery, a smaller 12v motorcycle battery, a high quality or cheap one, does a winch need a specific type? Please help Im a bit lost here.

I’d buy the biggest battery that’ll fit in the battery box.

Ian

 

[tonyidle]

I’d buy the biggest battery that’ll fit in the battery box.

Ian

As would I.

 

[pappajohn]

30amp/hr ride-on lawnmower battery will do.
It's only under load for a couple of minutes occasionally so not a lot of drain on the battery .
Not as though it's running all the time.

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[The Wino]

Is there an option for a hand crank it sounds like unless you have a really big bike you could fairly easily wind if on by hand.

 

[pappajohn]

Is there an option for a hand crank it sounds like unless you have a really big bike you could fairly easily wind if on by hand.

Or even walk it on under its own steam.

 

[Gellyneck]

and you'll need to consider how you'll recharge the battery if you fit one.

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[bigtwin]

and you'll need to consider how you'll recharge the battery if you fit one.

Hence why I said:

I’d buy the biggest battery that’ll fit in the battery box.

The greater the capacity, the greater flexibility (time) you have in relation to organising a recharge.

Ian

 

[Podney]

Ride it up there as if you were on the “ Wall of Death”. It will be exhilarating!

 

[Lagotto]

Anxious to keep on track, I wont be using vehicle power, I wont be buying a hand winch, I wont be walking the bike up the ramp (have you ever tried doing that with a Harley Electra glide), I wont be buying the biggest battery that will fit in the box, and re-charging the battery is not and issue. When travelling in the motorhome, the winch will only need to be used a limited number of times, for short periods. Based on the current draw, I would like to know the type/size of battery which will meet this criteria without involving great expense, after all, the battery will spend a great deal of time unused.

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[Odd job]

I used to ride my softail on to a trailer, a bit scary the first time, but after that no problems.

 

[bigtwin]

Anxious to keep on track, I wont be using vehicle power, I wont be buying a hand winch, I wont be walking the bike up the ramp (have you ever tried doing that with a Harley Electra glide), I wont be buying the biggest battery that will fit in the box, and re-charging the battery is not and issue. When travelling in the motorhome, the winch will only need to be used a limited number of times, for short periods. Based on the current draw, I would like to know the type/size of battery which will meet this criteria without involving great expense, after all, the battery will spend a great deal of time unused.

If charging is not a problem then buy the smallest battery that will allow a single use to deplete 50% of its capacity where 50% represents the Ah you need to operate the winch on a single occasion.

Notwithstanding the ambiguity around your intended duty of the winch and the recharge frequency, if I were you I’d go with @pappajohn’s recommendation.

I hope that helps you to make a decision.

Ian

 

[Jaws]

I have a 12v electric winch on a Motorcycle side loading trailer. The trailer (bought second hand) does not have a battery, but has a compartment for it and a hand held winch controller. I have tested the winch and it is working fine, but I now need to buy a dedicated battery for it. All I know is that the winch is 12v, rated at 2000lb and has a 12.5 no load amp rating (assume amps will rise when under load). Not being very knowledgeable about these things, what battery do I need? A simple 12v car battery, a smaller 12v motorcycle battery, a high quality or cheap one, does a winch need a specific type? Please help Im a bit lost here.

As it happens....
I have just replaced 4 batteries in a couple of mobility scoots
Two of them are perfectly serviceable and would be more than adequate for the job.
If you measure the battery box I will see if one would fit,,,
Cost to you sire, would be the postage

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[mitzimad]

Anxious to keep on track, I wont be using vehicle power, I wont be buying a hand winch, I wont be walking the bike up the ramp (have you ever tried doing that with a Harley Electra glide), I wont be buying the biggest battery that will fit in the box, and re-charging the battery is not and issue. When travelling in the motorhome, the winch will only need to be used a limited number of times, for short periods. Based on the current draw, I would like to know the type/size of battery which will meet this criteria without involving great expense, after all, the battery will spend a great deal of time unused.

then you need to be specific as to how many times and for how long you intend using this battery the fact that it will spend a lot of time unused will not make it cheaper

 

[Bonkers the Dog]

Use any 12v battery you like. I have the same set up and I use what is charged off the shelf in my garage. Old m/c battery, scooter batteries, old kids electric buggy, car battery etc it makes no difference as your run time won't be that long.

Be careful when winching in on these small, cheap units. Make sure it is a straight line pull. I have had to disassemble the thing to clear a fouled cable, it jams down the side of the reel because the pull was out of alignment and I wasn't paying attention. No great drama but it takes time and is a PITA!

TBH - I wish I had saved myself the money and got a hand winch! The only power you need for them is Weetabix...

 

[bigtwin]

then you need to be specific as to how many times and for how long you intend using this battery the fact that it will spend a lot of time unused will not make it cheaper

..... and not forgetting the recharge frequency/interval.

Ian

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[Lagotto]

As it happens....
I have just replaced 4 batteries in a couple of mobility scoots
Two of them are perfectly serviceable and would be more than adequate for the job.
If you measure the battery box I will see if one would fit,,,
Cost to you sire, would be the postage

Size isn’t a problem, the trailer has a very large storage chest mounted on the front, to take spare wheel, helmets etc. But I don’t think it’s possible to post batteries? or am I wrong?

 

[Lagotto]

then you need to be specific as to how many times and for how long you intend using this battery the fact that it will spend a lot of time unused will not make it cheaper

Can’t be very specific as most Motorhome users aren’t really able to predict how many times they will be touring. Likewise, I’m not sure how often I will want to use the bike when towing it. As for cost, I could pay anything from £50 to £200 for a battery, but if the £50 one will suffice then there would be no point in paying more. I was hoping that a good vehicle sparks would be able to suggest that, for arguments sake, a few minutes pulling 20 amps a few times a week while away, would only require a 75 amp hour deep cycle battery assuming recharging regularly, as an example. I understand that if I were considering running a business transporting motorcycles, loading bikes several times a day, day in day out, it would be prudent to tool up with pro equipment.

 

[Lagotto]

..... and not forgetting the recharge frequency/interval.

Ian

I mentioned recharge is not an issue, the winch will never be used to such an extent that it will be a problem, I will always be in a position where the battery can be sufficiently charged. I am looking at a few minutes pulling up the ramp, occasionally. What I need to avoid is a battery which will give up the ghost half way through the process because I’ve underestimated the power requirements.

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[Jaws]

Can’t be very specific as most Motorhome users aren’t really able to predict how many times they will be touring. Likewise, I’m not sure how often I will want to use the bike when towing it. As for cost, I could pay anything from £50 to £200 for a battery, but if the £50 one will suffice then there would be no point in paying more. I was hoping that a good vehicle sparks would be able to suggest that, for arguments sake, a few minutes pulling 20 amps a few times a week while away, would only require a 75 amp hour deep cycle battery assuming recharging regularly, as an example. I understand that if I were considering running a business transporting motorcycles, loading bikes several times a day, day in day out, it would be prudent to tool up with pro equipment.

You def do not need 75aH..
If the winch pulls 20a and it takes 5 minutes ( which is a LONG time ) to pull the bike on to the trailer, you would have to se it about 25 times at least to get to a point where a deep cycle 75aH battery would need recharging !
Gel batteries can be shipped as they do not contain liquid acid...
Anyways.. the offer is there if you want one

 

[Lagotto]

You def do not need 75aH..
If the winch pulls 20a and it takes 5 minutes ( which is a LONG time ) to pull the bike on to the trailer, you would have to se it about 25 times at least to get to a point where a deep cycle 75aH battery would need recharging !
Gel batteries can be shipped as they do not contain liquid acid...
Anyways.. the offer is there if you want one

Thanks very much for the offer, very kind. I will do a little more testing on current draw/time and decide which way to go.

 

[bigtwin]

I mentioned recharge is not an issue, the winch will never be used to such an extent that it will be a problem, I will always be in a position where the battery can be sufficiently charged. I am looking at a few minutes pulling up the ramp, occasionally. What I need to avoid is a battery which will give up the ghost half way through the process because I’ve underestimated the power requirements.

Ok, here we go:

Assumptions:

1. Battery will be recharged after every use (see your posts #12 and #21)
2. Off load current is 12.5A, assume onload current is 25A
3. Single use duration = 5 minutes (1/12 of 1 hr)
4. Maximum permissible discharge = 50%

Level of single use Ah discharge = 25/12 = 2Ah

2Ah = 50% depth of discharge, therefore required battery capacity = 4Ah.

This would, for example, be satisfied by a battery such as this one! - available for £18.

The earlier responses by pappajohn, Bonkers the Dog and Jaws have all provided you with a solution.

You will note that, reflecting your earlier statement regarding recharging, I have assummed that you will recharge after every instance. However, given a later statement from you in post #20, it seems that you are unclear on your ability to recharge.

Folks can only respond to what you post and it is unhelpful if you are inconsistent in this regard.

I trust that the above provides the answer you are looking for.

In the event that you are able to be a little more consistent in relation to your intent with regards to charging, then a different answer may be forthcoming. However, while this may yield a different answer to your Ah consumption (before recharge) it is likely that this will neither affect the recommendations already posted by others nor my example product.

Ian

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[Lagotto]

Ok, here we go:

Assumptions:

1. Battery will be recharged after every use (see your posts #12 and #21)
2. Off load current is 12.5A, assume onload current is 25A
3. Single use duration = 5 minutes (1/12 of 1 hr)
4. Maximum permissible discharge = 50%

Level of single use Ah discharge = 25/12 = 2Ah

2Ah = 50% depth of discharge, therefore required battery capacity = 4Ah.

This would, for example, be satisfied by a battery such as this one! - available for £18.

The earlier responses by pappajohn, Bonkers the Dog and Jaws have all provided you with a solution.

You will note that, reflecting your earlier statement regarding recharging, I have assummed that you will recharge after every instance. However, given a later statement from you in post #20, it seems that you are unclear on your ability to recharge.

Folks can only respond to what you post and it is unhelpful if you are inconsistent in this regard.

I trust that the above provides the answer you are looking for.

In the event that you are able to be a little more consistent in relation to your intent with regards to charging, then a different answer may be forthcoming. However, while this may yield a different answer to your Ah consumption (before recharge) it is likely that this will neither affect the recommendations already posted by others nor my example product.

Ian

Not sure where you get ambiguity or inconsistency from, I made it very clear on numerous occasions, Little use, short durations and recharging not an issue, couldn't have been more clear. Not to worry, I will sort it out, so thanks to everyone who responded.

 

[autorouter]

Off load current is 12.5A, assume onload current is 25A

The other consideration, apart from energy storage capacity, is the working current in amps. If a Gel battery takes 25A then about 4 x 25 = 100Ah is required. You may be better with a vehicle starter battery which is built to supply a large current for a short time, then recharge fairly quickly. A small 45Ah starter battery would be OK for this. You could look at starter battery 'Cold Cranking Amps' (CCA) values and possibly choose a smaller battery than this. Remember that starter batteries don't do well if left uncharged, and need to be recharged fairly quickly for reasonable life expectancy..

 

[bigtwin]

Some posts say “charging is not a problem”, then you say:

Can’t be very specific as most Motorhome users aren’t really able to predict how many times they will be touring. Likewise, I’m not sure how often I will want to use the bike when towing it. As for cost, I could pay anything from £50 to £200 for a battery, but if the £50 one will suffice then there would be no point in paying more. I was hoping that a good vehicle sparks would be able to suggest that, for arguments sake, a few minutes pulling 20 amps a few times a week while away, would only require a 75 amp hour deep cycle battery assuming recharging regularly, as an example. I understand that if I were considering running a business transporting motorcycles, loading bikes several times a day, day in day out, it would be prudent to tool up with pro equipment.

The above is considerably at odds with your statement that “charging is not a problem”.

If you can’t see that the recharge frequency/interval will affect the answer that you seek then I’m not sure we can help you further.

Ian

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[Lagotto]

Some posts say “charging is not a problem”, then you say:



The above is considerably at odds with your statement that “charging is not a problem”.

If you can’t see that the recharge frequency/interval will affect the answer that you seek then I’m not sure we can help you further.

Ian

I can only repeat my previous post, little use, short durations and recharging not an issue, the picture I've painted very clear. If you still find that confusing then I accept that you can not help any further, thanks.

 

[tonyidle]

I can only repeat my previous post, little use, short durations and recharging not an issue, the picture I've painted very clear. If you still find that confusing then I accept that you can not help any further, thanks.

When I agreed with the post that suggested the biggest that would fit I'd assumed a dedicated battery box fitted by the trailer builder that would have been sized to match a suitable battery. So a better answer is to suggest you buy the cheapest small car starter battery you can find. I would stick to car starter batteries because (a) any will do the job (b) if you choose a popular size it will be as cheap as a smaller less popular battery. Charge it whenever possible using a decent small charger, don't leave it without connecting a charger for more than a couple of weeks, and it will last a very long time. Extended winching if ever needed won't be a problem nor will the reasonably heavy current needed when the winch is under load. Fit a socket or terminals to the battery box & it will have other uses (operating a loading light, pitch lighting, emergency leisure battery, emergency starter battery, or tyre compressor for example).

 

[Lagotto]

When I agreed with the post that suggested the biggest that would fit I'd assumed a dedicated battery box fitted by the trailer builder that would have been sized to match a suitable battery. So a better answer is to suggest you buy the cheapest small car starter battery you can find. I would stick to car starter batteries because (a) any will do the job (b) if you choose a popular size it will be as cheap as a smaller less popular battery. Charge it whenever possible using a decent small charger, don't leave it without connecting a charger for more than a couple of weeks, and it will last a very long time. Extended winching if ever needed won't be a problem nor will the reasonably heavy current needed when the winch is under load. Fit a socket or terminals to the battery box & it will have other uses (operating a loading light, pitch lighting, emergency leisure battery, emergency starter battery, or tyre compressor for example).

Good ideas, the battery box is large, spans nearly the width of the trailer and will hold loads of gear, spare wheel, helmets etc. The box also has a caravan style socket for 240v EHU which is useful for powering a charger inside the box. I will also fit a 12v external socket for the purposes as you mentioned. I have several battery tenders for my bikes, so easy to pop one in the box.

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