driving/towing (1 Viewer)

[tjay]

Saw this on my facebook page and have the 107 code on my licence too, I usually pull my Brian James trailer with a Fiat Panda on it.
Is this legal ???
facebook post.-
HI all
there is a gent called Dave Glass on the motorhome & camper page who tows a car with his large motorhome he is being prosecuted by the DSA for towing more than 750kg seems its to do with having C1E on your licence then a 107 code on the end means if over 3500kg you can only tow 750kg came in in the 90s its on my licence as well'

thanks in advance

 

[Larrynwin]

A C1+E with 107 code will have been issued before January 1997 and entitles you to drive gvw 7500kg and a gtw of 8250kg leaving a trailer weight of 750 kg, however if your actual plated gvw is less, say 7000kg you can then trail 1250kg to reach the gtw of 8250 kg.

 

[bobandjanie]

That's right if you passed your test after January 97, or I think over 70 then you need a medical to continue driving over 3500kg.

 

[pappajohn]

Correct, but your vehicles train weight must be applied as well so a 3500kg van cant tow a 4750kg trailer.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Have a look at the paper counterpart the coding should be on there, or look on line on the DVLC pages. I have a C1E and the coding only gives me a total AUW of 8250kgs. No actual trailer weights. As far as I understand C1E is the same for all until it ended when the Trailer towing became a separate driving test, It should not be different, as the rules were changed at the same time no C1E and the limit to 750kgs unbraked trailers . I still cannot see the reason for the ruling anyway as a trailer over 750kgs is no different from over unless you are talking really big ones, of which there are few.
I looked on the Site and it states C1 up to 7500kgs and trailer up to 750 kgs and C1E is over 3500kgs to 7500 with a trailer over 750kgs to gross train weight of 8250 kgs, I cannot see restriction 107. but might be wrong. Did You take a test in a vehicle over 3500 to get the licence? if so you need a trailer test as well. If you have a C1E on grandfathers rights then the upper limits apply..
BUT if that man has an RV at a higher weight and tested at it then he will be limited to 8250kgs as the traile will take it over 8250

a bit of a loads of cobblers I say.

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[2bob]

hi tjay i think
they nick him because he did not hav a licence for the weight
the car that was on a trailer but under weigh but it was the whol weight add together like trailer could carry more

 

[pappajohn]

Agr

hi tjay i think
they nick him because he did not hav a licence for the weight
the car that was on a trailer but under weigh but it was the whol weight add together like trailer could carry more

Agreed, even if the trailer is empty its the trailers gross weight which applies.
Actual load weight is immaterial.

 

[Ranger]

Not sure about newer licences but with grandfather rights the plated weight of the trailer is of no importance, it is the actual train weight of the outfit at the time. We used to carry a copy of the VOSA (now DVSA)statement to that effect with us at all times towing commercially as the police did not seen to know their own laws. You can find a copy on the internet but can't remember where.

 

[John & Joan]

The full list of codes used are here: https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-codes

Code 107 - not more than 8,250 kilograms
It does not state anything about the towing vehicle weight, just the total train weight that cannot be exceeded.

Code 96 - allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer where the trailer weighs at least 750kg, and the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is between 3,500kg and 4,250kg.
It could be that he was limited by code 96 and exceeded it.

 

[Geo]

Agr

Agreed, even if the trailer is empty its the trailers gross weight which applies.
Actual load weight is immaterial.

thats correct But what an arse of a law, applying the same rules anyone with a gun should be charged with Murder they didnt but they could

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[vwalan]

Correct, but your vehicles train weight must be applied as well so a 3500kg van cant tow a 4750kg trailer.

if you passed your test before 97 using a b+e you can have a 7.5ton lowered to 3.5ton gvw and tow real big trailers . as b+e relies on the trainweight of the tow vehicle , when they lower the gvw it still keeps the original trainweight .
ideally fifth wheel is safer but it could be a very heavy trailer if the trainweight is 11ton or could in odd cases be 12ton.
code 107 is for over 3,5ton tow vehicles .
sorry reread the first post yes with c1+e 8,250kg limmit .
didnt mean to confuse . just miss read the posts sorry.

 

[GWAYGWAY]

Lighter the towing vehicle and the heavier the trailer, the dodgier the whole thing is as the tr tail can wag the dog. These regulations were dreamt up by a civil servant or even a lawyer to make it difficult to interpret and understand. The safer heavier vehicle does not have to be heavy to make it stable the other way around ( Transit pick up empty, pulling a heavy trailer with a minidigger is a bit dodgy) is not ideal but that is the way they want it. Trying to get a licence to drive a C1 and then add an E to it is a really awkward thing to arrange, and expensive. It was dropped to bring us into EU compliance not for any safety related issues. A lot of RV owners are driving around thinking they are OK when in fact they do not have a licence to drive it at all, they think they have Grandfather rights but they do not. They need a proper C licence with a taken test. The first thing that will tell them is when they have an accident and the claim is thrown out, or the plod catch them like Mr Glass found out. Several thousand pounds down and a load of points later they learn the actual truth. Because it is deemed as driving without a licence , no insurance, overweight, the list gets bigger, the magistrates will throw the book at them.

 

[John & Joan]

A lot of RV owners are driving around thinking they are OK when in fact they do not have a licence to drive it at all, they think they have Grandfather rights but they do not. They need a proper C licence with a taken test. The first thing that will tell them is when they have an accident and the claim is thrown out, or the plod catch them like Mr Glass found out. Several thousand pounds down and a load of points later they learn the actual truth. Because it is deemed as driving without a licence , no insurance, overweight, the list gets bigger, the magistrates will throw the book at them.

I agree with your comment. It has often been said by dealers that you could drive a large RV on a B licence. This topic has often been raised on this and other forums. As you state this is not the case. C1 if it is under 7500kg or C if over, are required.

VWAlan has a tractor unit, in effect, coupled to a large trailer unit. This is like a 5th wheeler or articulated tractor trailer combination. It is not a conventional vehicle trailer combination. He down plated the towing vehicle, but it retains its train weight so he can tow a heavy trailer with it.

 

[Peter Ashcroft]

I was also following this on the FB page, it seems the problem actually was that his motorhome was 7.5T so anything more than 750 would take him over the 8.25

 

[sallylillian]

I was also following this on the FB page, it seems the problem actually was that his motorhome was 7.5T so anything more than 750 would take him over the 8.25

So as @GWAYGWAY said he was driving without a licence and therefore without insurance, so why was he not being prosecuted by the police for these traffic offences too?

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[telsdog]

Agr

Agreed, even if the trailer is empty its the trailers gross weight which applies.
Actual load weight is immaterial.

As I understand it, when looking at gross train weight it is the actual weight of towing vehicle and trailer that applies not the gvw of towing vehicle and mam of trailer added together. As an example a tow vehicle of say 1500kg gvw and train weight of say 2500kg would be legal towing a trailer with an actual weight of 500kg and a mam of say 2000kg. When looking at driving licence entitlement it is the mam of trailers that is used. In the example I have ignored trailer nose weight for simplicity.

 

[mpdcymru]

The full list of codes used are here: https://www.gov.uk/driving-licence-codes

Code 107 - not more than 8,250 kilograms
It does not state anything about the towing vehicle weight, just the total train weight that cannot be exceeded.

Code 96 - allowed to drive a vehicle and trailer where the trailer weighs at least 750kg, and the combined weight of the vehicle and trailer is between 3,500kg and 4,250kg.
It could be that he was limited by code 96 and exceeded it.

This is correct but you also have to read it in conjunction with the Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986 which clearly state that the trailer weight (trailer and load) cannot exceed the total permissable weight of the towing vehicle hence the maximum weight that could be towed by a vehicle with a maximum gross weight of 3,500 kgs would be 3,00kgs.

The other issue that should be taken into account here is that the driving licence regs always talk of "Maximum authorised Mass" and do not use the terms gross or train etc. The Maximum Authoried Mass is defined as being the total weight of the vehicle (or trailer) plus any load carried on that vehicle (or trailer).

 

[GWAYGWAY]

So as @GWAYGWAY said he was driving without a licence and therefore without insurance, so why was he not being prosecuted by the police for these traffic offences too?

Probably because the Plod had to look all the inuendos up, and found it very difficult , so to present it to the magistrates court would be difficult too. They might have had the case thrown out. He was / is being done on the weight issue as the car probably wasn't a lot over on a % basis. The licencing issue is a minefield, so is trying to get the correct one. A lorry driver towing a large trailer all his life behind a RIGID lorry cannot tow a caravan over 750 kgs behind his car and a lot of younger drivers buy their caravan without knowing that either. The travelling community (p+++++s) know this and they are not about to get home confiscated for being over the limit so the younger ones are obtaining motorhomes and a small caravan to live in, towing it along as well to get the accommodation size they want. I have a home made trailer without a plate so they cannot prove a weight limit, it is braked so could legally be over that weight. As it was built last ye,,ERRRR many years ago , it does not have to have compliance certification. EU again.

 

[vwalan]

there is no weight limit on trailers for old pre 2013 b+e licences only the trainweight of the towing vehicle .
after january2013 new b+e have limits .