Disposing of grey water (1 Viewer)

[pandas]

I won't worry about dumping a bit of grey waste on a patch of land.

In the Vietnam war the USA used Agent Orange (just a smidgen more toxic than grey waste) on the forests of Vietnam.

Guess what, the forests of Vietnam are more or less back to pre war levels.

Nature is really pretty good at surviving.

and lots of cluster bombs that are still maiming/killing people up.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

I know you're making a light hearted comment but perhaps a little reading up on agent orange wouldn't go amiss - the jungles may have grown back (questionable) but the legacy lives on both in America (in the Vietnam vets and their descendants) and in Vietnam amongst the population.

I guess the point is that if we have a decent sewage system, we should use it and only dump chemicals directly into the environment as a last resort and perhaps follow this advice from RHS "Household soaps and detergents are harmless to plants, but water containing bleaches, disinfectants, dishwasher salt and stronger cleaning products should not be used, as they can harm plants and even damage soil structure if used long-term on soil."

Agent orange definitely has a legacy, my son has vietnamese friends and spends quite some time there, or did before covid, one of his friends fathers has a birth defect, attributed directly to exposure to agent orange.
some of the jungle has most definitely not grown back.
Funny how the disposal of grey water rightly or wrongly, includes a brief discussion about defoliants used in the vietnam conflict???????
I used to own a farm and have a few tourers on now and again one thing i can assure you of, if anyone dumped grey water anywhere other than where they are supposed to they would have been kicked off quick smart.
As i have said it is up to the individual entirely, i am not passing comment on those who do, i personally would never do it, you never know where that waste water will end up, plants may be ok with it, but i know amphibians are not as tolerant.
I was just surprised at its apparent regular occurrence, as i always thought it was frowned upon, nothing more.

 

[Sandancers]

I know you're making a light hearted comment but perhaps a little reading up on agent orange wouldn't go amiss - the jungles may have grown back (questionable) but the legacy lives on both in America (in the Vietnam vets and their descendants) and in Vietnam amongst the population.

I guess the point is that if we have a decent sewage system, we should use it and only dump chemicals directly into the environment as a last resort and perhaps follow this advice from RHS "Household soaps and detergents are harmless to plants, but water containing bleaches, disinfectants, dishwasher salt and stronger cleaning products should not be used, as they can harm plants and even damage soil structure if used long-term on soil."

Don't know about others but our grey water only has soap and maybe a touch of washing up liquid in it. Certainly not bleach or disinfectant.

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[Eggs]

Whenever there is a hosepipe ban the local waterboard tell you to water your plants with your washing up & bath water.
All the people I've know that live in the country with septic tanks or sess pits nearly always run a pipe from the shower/bath & kitchen sink & washing machine so they bypass the tank & let it run off on the land. never appears to cause a problem.

You are showing your age Lenny, it ain't been the waterboard for years, but you are right, the water authorities do encourage folk to use their washing water to water the garden when there is a hosepipe ban in place.

 

[bigtwin]

Not being judgemental at all but i am somewhat dismayed at the dumping of grey water directly into the environment, bits of food, various chemicals, can't be good for the frogs and such.

As well as not being judgemental, I’m guessing that you’re not being serious as well?

There was another poster earlier who also thought folks were being serious.

Ian

 

[MITHRANDIR]

As well as not being judgemental, I’m guessing that you’re not being serious as well?

There was another poster earlier who also thought folks were being serious.

Ian

yes i am being serious, in that i thought it was frowned upon, apparently not.

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[dulvil]

What about the canal boats. They dump grey water in the canal with all the wildlife.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

What about the canal boats. They dump grey water in the canal with all the wildlife.

relative small amount of water into a large body of water, very different

 

[Eggs]

relative small amount of water into a large body of water, very different

Really! have you lived on a narrowboat in a Marina where boats are pumping out grey waste into the environment?
.

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[MITHRANDIR]

what's the problem with me not dumping grey water directly into the environment?

let's be clear i don't really care where others dump it, i will not dump it ito hedgerows, ditches and the like, i thought it was frowned upon, what's the problem?

A couple of years ago i was at camping bleufond in montignac and i saw a guy dumping his grey water into a hedgerow on his pitch, so did the owner, they kicked him off immediately.

I don't know anything about narrowboats, but still a relatively small amount compared to the volume of said marina.
Number of narrowboats vs number of motorhomes and caravans, no contest.

 

[Ian Bosman]

Apparently, it is actually very good for the plants (and then on up through the food chain), especially if you use Ecover or similar that won't end up polluting watercourses.

In very dry weather we use the washing up water at home to water the plants which thrive on it due to the mixture of organic matter. But I do not agree with dumping, in my case, 150 litres of grey water on a pitch or the intervening hedge if there is one. I know it is a bit of hassle but you do the correct thing and go to where the official dump is sited. I do object to finding when arrival at a new pitch that a previous person has dumper grey water to fester underway nose.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

In very dry weather we use the washing up water at home to water the plants which thrive on it due to the mixture of organic matter. But I do not agree with dumping, in my case, 150 litres of grey water on a pitch or the intervening hedge if there is one. I know it is a bit of hassle but you do the correct thing and go to where the official dump is sited. I do object to finding when arrival at a new pitch that a previous person has dumper grey water to fester underway nose.

Exactly, a bit of grey water on the garden plants at home is fine, on or near a pitch that someone else has to use is not very pleasant really.
I was always taught not to do it by my old man, and having had a working farm for many years i fully understand what pollution can do, even when it is done quite innocently. We had to be very careful with run off from the muckheap, not to enter waterways, etc the environment agency would prosecute without mercy if you got caught, that's just cow s##t, people put it on there gardens all the time, we spread it back on the ground as fertiliser, but enough effluent off it entering a water course over several days will kill all the fish.
Enough grey water in roughly the same spot will have an environmental impact.

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[Sandancers]

Exactly, a bit of grey water on the garden plants at home is fine, on or near a pitch that someone else has to use is not very pleasant really.
I was always taught not to do it by my old man, and having had a working farm for many years i fully understand what pollution can do, even when it is done quite innocently. We had to be very careful with run off from the muckheap, not to enter waterways, etc the environment agency would prosecute without mercy if you got caught, that's just cow s##t, people put it on there gardens all the time, we spread it back on the ground as fertiliser, but enough effluent off it entering a water course over several days will kill all the fish.
Enough grey water in roughly the same spot will have an environmental impact.

So if there is a drought the ground will be glad of grey water ? Think that has been established as true.

On the other hand if you / we dropped 100l of grey water on an area of land and there is rain shortly afterwards (and we are talking UK here so quite likely) then the grey waste will be massively diluted by the rainwater. Is that not correct ?

 

[eddie]

Respectfully that doesn't make it right or ethical

Why does the water authority tell us to use our domestic waste water when in a drout then if it

Enough grey water in roughly the same spot will have an environmental impact.

Actually do you have any evidence what so ever to back that statement up?

 

[MITHRANDIR]

So if there is a drought the ground will be glad of grey water ? Think that has been established as true.

On the other hand if you / we dropped 100l of grey water on an area of land and there is rain shortly afterwards (and we are talking UK here so quite likely) then the grey waste will be massively diluted by the rainwater. Is that not correct ?

Yes that would be about right, but the amphibians would not thank you for it, not so good for them, it's not just the ground it's everything that lives in it as well, and you do not know where your grey water will end up, water will evaporate, but the chemicals held in suspension in the water will not.
let's say you are on a site where this occurs frequently, say 10 times a year then it would be 1000 litres, and not everyone will just have dish soap in their grey water, some people will use bleach and the like.
Would you like to have a pitch where the previous occupant had dumped their grey water, to fester underfoot?
Would you tip a full bottle of fairy into a ditch?, maybe not but that is what happens when enough grey water is dumped in roughly the same place.
Do as you will but i certainly won't, dump it in the proper place, if the site doesn't have that facility, then road drains would be much better than hedgerows,ditches and such.

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[MITHRANDIR]

Why does the water authority tell us to use our domestic waste water when in a drout then if it

Actually do you have any evidence what so ever to back that statement up?

Yes i do, friends of mine who are farmers had travelers on neighbouring land to theirs, they dumped their grey water into a ditch, which ran off into a small pond, about 2-300 yards downhill, they were there for about 4 weeks, the pond was full of dead newts, frogs and the like, he knows that it was the grey water, it had been fine for 30 odd years before this, Natural england, were informed and they tested the water and it was contaminated with various chemicals, non ionic surfactants and chlorine in the main, their view was firmly that grey water from said caravans were to blame.
The pond has still not recovered to this day, it was about 5 years ago.
Dump it where you like seems to be the view.

 

[eddie]

Yes i do, friends of mine who are farmers had travelers on neighbouring land to theirs, they dumped their grey water into a ditch, which ran off into a small pond, about 2-300 yards downhill, they were there for about 4 weeks, the pond was full of dead newts, frogs and the like, he knows that it was the grey water, it had been fine for 30 odd years before this, Natural england, were informed and they tested the water and it was contaminated with various chemicals, non ionic surfactants and chlorine in the main, their view was firmly that grey water from said caravans were to blame.
The pond has still not recovered to this day, it was about 5 years ago.
Dump it where you like seems to be the view.

So no evidence just hearsay?

The reason I ask is that I own a campsite, we applied for planning permission and did everything by the book, and grey water disposal was never part of any discussion with the Water Authority or the Environment Agency, despite them wanting to know the "ins" and "outs" of a Natter jack Toads bum!

Hence I wondered if you had any scientific or legislative links we could look at as you seem very knowledgeable on your opinions

 

[MITHRANDIR]

So no evidence just hearsay?

The reason I ask is that I own a campsite, we applied for planning permission and did everything by the book, and grey water disposal was never part of any discussion with the Water Authority or the Environment Agency, despite them wanting to know the "ins" and "outs" of a Natter jack Toads bum!

Hence I wondered if you had any scientific or legislative links we could look at as you seem very knowledgeable on your opinions

Not hearsay at all i was present when NE were testing, and i saw the letter they sent, he was on the neighbouring farm to mine, part of his land including the pond is an SSSI, subject to much more stringent rules applied, but that shouldn't matter.
Believe it or not, that's up to you to judge.
Go and ask NE,or EA, and tell them you plan to have your guests dump their grey water directly into the environment and see what happens, but i suspect you already know what the outcome would be.
My opinion is just that, nothing more, of which i am entitled as is anyone else to theirs.
I wouldn't judge anyone that does do it, each to their own, do i agree with the practice, no, i don't there is a better way.
As i have repeatedly said i was and am surprised that the practice appears to happen quite often and would appear to be commonplace, nothing more.
Done in an "emergency" when there is little choice is one thing, but if you had read some of the comments regarding commercial sites encouraging guests to do it that's completely different.

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[eddie]

I was only asking to establish if your comments were your opinion or fact.

I don't doubt that a group of travellers could ruin a pond by dumping stuff in it.

I doubt it was there shower water that has blighted the pond for five years though

 

[MITHRANDIR]

So no evidence just hearsay?

The reason I ask is that I own a campsite, we applied for planning permission and did everything by the book, and grey water disposal was never part of any discussion with the Water Authority or the Environment Agency, despite them wanting to know the "ins" and "outs" of a Natter jack Toads bum!

Hence I wondered if you had any scientific or legislative links we could look at as you seem very knowledgeable on your opinions

The British Standard BS8525-1:2010 (Greywater Systems Code of Practice) advises that providing it's treated properly, greywater can be used for toilet flushing, garden use and washing machines. It shouldn't be used for bathing, dishwashing or anything requiring higher water quality, because of potential health risks.

WASTE WATER & FRESH WATER​

• Waste water is also known as grey water and this is the water that goes down your sinks/shower and collects in an onboard waste water tank in your vehicle. Sometimes this is also piped into a separate holding tank that you attach to your vehicle.
• Most grey water is quite harmless, but it does depend on what washing up chemicals you are using and it may also contain small traces of food waste etc.
• As a rule, grey water should be emptied at a campsite motorhome/caravan disposal area to go into the sewage system for proper treatment. Do note this area is different to where you empty your toilet waste. You will see the signs for “Grey waste disposal” and it will normally be a drainage point to drive over.
• You should not empty your grey waste water anywhere other than a designated area on a campsite or motorhome service point. Do not empty your water in parking areas, on roads or laybys. Scotland is trying to lead the way in responsible waste water disposal and whilst there may be limited amounts of chemicals in grey water, Scotland is aiming to ensure that all grey water, whether from road drains or households, is treated and returned to the environment in its purest form.
• In times of water shortages, some campsites may ask all campers to collect grey water for the hedgerows. Please check with each campsite owner what is acceptable for their site but don’t assume you can do the same on another site.
• If you are hiring a campervan or motorhome, make sure that you are shown where the waste tank drain points are and it is demonstrated how to empty the waste water. If you are not shown, do not leave until you are shown!

 

[eddie]

I don't know where you cut and pasted that from, but thank you as it backs us that grey water is "quiet harmless" and be used for "garden use" and that in times of water shortages (Most Summers lol) Campsite owners may ask for grey water to be used to water the hedgerows

Thanks

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[MITHRANDIR]

I was only asking to establish if your comments were your opinion or fact.

I don't doubt that a group of travellers could ruin a pond by dumping stuff in it.

I doubt it was there shower water that has blighted the pond for five years though

I didn't say it has been blighted for five years, it was five years ago, and it has still not recovered to its former self as it was before.
you obviously failed to see that chlorine was present, bleach most likely, it wasn't just shower water.
The pond is just as clean now as it always was, but it doesn't have as many newts and frogs as it did.
These things can take a long time to recover i'm afraid.
Why? because of irresponsible dumping of waste water contaminated with chemicals, however innocently it may have been done.

 

[MITHRANDIR]

I don't know where you cut and pasted that from, but thank you as it backs us that grey water is "quiet harmless" and be used for "garden use" and that in times of water shortages (Most Summers lol) Campsite owners may ask for grey water to be used to water the hedgerows

Thanks

And they may not.

• Most grey water is quite harmless, but it does depend on what washing up chemicals you are using and it may also contain small traces of food waste etc.

I notice you didn't reference all the statement just the bit that supports your point of view
Do as you will
Nuff said.

 

[eddie]

I didn't say it has been blighted for five years, it was five years ago, and it has still not recovered to its former self as it was before.
you obviously failed to see that chlorine was present, bleach most likely, it wasn't just shower water.

So hardly caravan or motorhome grey water then.

The pond is just as clean now as it always was, but it doesn't have as many newts and frogs as it did.

I assume this is a guess?

And they may not.

• Most grey water is quite harmless, but it does depend on what washing up chemicals you are using and it may also contain small traces of food waste etc.

I notice you didn't reference all the statement just the bit that supports your point of view
Do as you will
Nuff said.

Your post wasn't a link to empirical evidence. It was either written by you, or, as I inferred cut and paste from a web site that has a similar opinion to yours.

The reality is, some people get all het up, and hot and bothered by things, we all do, Don Quixote battled and fought all sorts of imaginary problems, and his Author, Cervantes wrote that he'd written the book to celebrate that the individual can be correct and the "state" be wrong, so everyones opinion is valid, so long as they remember that its "their opinion" not fact or law.

Personally I know that all that goes into our grey water tank which is about 57 Gallons so much bigger than most is soapy water, which is harmless

If I am on a nice site that has a grey water disposal point of course I would use it, if I am on a CL in the middle of a field and I see someone empty a bucket of water into the hedge would I be bothered? of course not

Unless someone can post a link to a legal or scientific web site forbidding this I will continue along in the "what ever is appropriate vein.

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[MITHRANDIR]

The pond life was found to have expired a few days after the travellers had left, it was reported to NE, they did the testing, that's what they found, THEY said it was probably grey water, as it contained chlorine which was probably the cause of the death of the newts and frogs on which the landowner agreed, it wasn't difficult to work out you could smell the bleach, let's be clear it wasn't just a few, we fished out over 100 newts and frogs, not just the odd one, and was meant to illustrate what CAN happen when careless dumping of grey water occurs, certainly doesn't mean it will happen just because someone dumps a bit of grey water.
No guess, i walk my dogs past the pond daily.

If i saw someone tipping grey water anywhere, would it bother me NO ABSOLUTLEY NOT.
Would i do it? no i wouldn't.

I Have never said the practice is forbidden because its not, nor have i said that it is in any way illegal, in fact i said my opinion is to dump it down a roadside drain which is illegal in fact.
The only thing i have said is that i thought it was frowned upon, i stand corrected.

The article was not written by me, cut and pasted as you rightly say, it does not mention it being illegal either, just be mindful of what's in the water.

I am not hot under the collar as you say, just surprised that's all, in 30 years of motorhoming i have come across it only a couple of times that's all.
You should as you rightly say continue to act in whatever vein you feel is appropriate.

 

[pandas]

Having used exclusively our own facilities last July I was quite surprised on emptying the odour coming from what was basically shower and washing up water after a 5 day period of not moving. Agreed it was in a sealed 150 l tank but I would not have wanted to park on a pitch where recently somebody had discharged 150 l of grey water. Especially if it was in the summer and a drought (sorry that is in the south east). No idea about the science but it just seems unneighbourly.

 

[eddie]

I am not hot under the collar as you say

I didn't?

Having used exclusively our own facilities last July I was quite surprised on emptying the odour coming from what was basically shower and washing up water after a 5 day period of not moving. Agreed it was in a sealed 150 l tank but I would not have wanted to park on a pitch where recently somebody had discharged 150 l of grey water. Especially if it was in the summer and a drought (sorry that is in the south east). No idea about the science but it just seems unneighbourly.

I agree 100%

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[MITHRANDIR]

The reality is, some people get all het up, and hot and bothered by things, we all do,

Sorry if i misunderstood, i thought that was a reference to me
It certainly looks like it.

 

[eddie]

Sorry if i misunderstood, i thought that was a reference to me
It certainly looks like it.

Well "Technically" I suppose I did as I said "We all do" But I was referring to everyone

 

[MITHRANDIR]

So hardly caravan or motorhome grey water then.

I assume this is a guess?

Your post wasn't a link to empirical evidence. It was either written by you, or, as I inferred cut and paste from a web site that has a similar opinion to yours.

The reality is, some people get all het up, and hot and bothered by things, we all do, Don Quixote battled and fought all sorts of imaginary problems, and his Author, Cervantes wrote that he'd written the book to celebrate that the individual can be correct and the "state" be wrong, so everyones opinion is valid, so long as they remember that its "their opinion" not fact or law.

Personally I know that all that goes into our grey water tank which is about 57 Gallons so much bigger than most is soapy water, which is harmless

If I am on a nice site that has a grey water disposal point of course I would use it, if I am on a CL in the middle of a field and I see someone empty a bucket of water into the hedge would I be bothered? of course not

Unless someone can post a link to a legal or scientific web site forbidding this I will continue along in the "what ever is appropriate vein.

BTW, cut and pasted from Campervan & Motorhome Professional association.

Waste Disposal - Campa

Whether travelling in your own campervan or motorhome, or in a hire vehicle, it is your responsibility to ensure you leave no trace of your travel and dispose

www.campa.org.uk

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