Diesel Investigators Target Fiat & Iveco (1 Viewer)

[Ed 57]

On the back of the VW emission scandle, it appears that other manufacturers are also being investigated for alleged disel exhaust gas emmissions manipilation.
Some motorhomes could be affected.
You will need Google translate or Deele Translate to read. as it appeard in a German publication yesterday.

<Broken link removed>

 

[Garfields]

Also Mercedes apparently

 

[gus-lopez]

I've never understood what the problem is ? The requirement was that they meet a standard when tested .The ASSUMPTION by those drawing up the legislation was intended to mean when on the road.Unfortunately it doesn't or didn't state that.
Same as anyone else when going for an MOT. You do what ever is necessary to pass the test legally but not necessarily complying in the long term.

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[SpeedyDux]

Crikey! The prosecutors even want Fiat customers to hand themselves in to the Police.

That's Germany crossed off the next trip itinerary.

 

[jongood]

Sort of makes a mockery of the whole thing doesnt it; Although how far the emission regs have been taken already is pretty silly. IMHO they should have stopped at Euro 5 for another few years.

 

[Norrie59]

I always though VAG had done little wrong.
Someone set an exam for the car to pass and it did. The invigilators were asleep.

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[WESTY66]

So they bloody well should, my van is doing nowhere near enough to the gallon

 

[busby]

Read Renault are also being investigated,,BUSBY.

 

[thebriars]

I always though VAG had done little wrong.
Someone set an exam for the car to pass and it did. The invigilators were asleep.

Not true. The software sensed the test being undertaken and then reduced the published power and performance to achieve the reduced emissions.

Thus the cars were not being sold as advertised. Hence why the compensation was paid.

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[Norrie59]

Wearing my pedantic hat I respectfully disagree.
The cars passed the set test because the car recognised that, since the steering wheel had not moved, this was a (rolling road) test so it 'ran lean' and passed the test. That test was fundamentally flawed because it hadn't been properly designed. Exams and examiners must be pedantic by definition and if the questions leave room for (mis)interpretation then they haven't done their job properly.
The fact that vehicle manufactures spotted this loophole and queued up to crawl through it was wrong without question and they knew it, so they deserve the financial kicking they're getting.

 

[Wack]

Sort of makes a mockery of the whole thing doesnt it; Although how far the emission regs have been taken already is pretty silly. IMHO they should have stopped at Euro 5 for another few years.

I have a business delivering truck parts , nobody wanted euro 6 at the time , manufacturers were flat out producing trucks to beat the euro 6 deadline , then twiddling their thumbs after
one of the biggest issues was heat , the exhaust gases were recirculated 6 times before the exhaust so the engines were overheating

One time I was delivering they were loading truck parts into containers, it went on for weeks so i asked what was going on
They'd been caught with a load of euro 3 engines that couldn't be sold in europe so had built 7.5t trucks in kit form so they'd fit in containers which were then being shipped to mexico

Good job this pollution thing isn't global then

 

[gus-lopez]

They'd been caught with a load of euro 3 engines that couldn't be sold in europe so had built 7.5t trucks in kit form so they'd fit in containers which were then being shipped to mexico

Good job this pollution thing isn't global then

Neighbour works for his mate who buys & sells all over. Neighbour reglarly collects stuff that can no longer run in cities, & either gets used out of town or sold on to africa or elsewhere.

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[Brains]

I've never understood what the problem is ? The requirement was that they meet a standard when tested .The ASSUMPTION by those drawing up the legislation was intended to mean when on the road.Unfortunately it doesn't or didn't state that.
Same as anyone else when going for an MOT. You do what ever is necessary to pass the test legally but not necessarily complying in the long term.

That would be the same as swapping all 4 of your bald tyres with your neighbours brand new set, passing the MOT and then swapping them back.

At the time the MOT was done the vehicle was legal, however an hour later it was not and had the potential to cause mass fatalities when you skid into a bus queue as your bald tyres lost traction.

Diesel emissions (and other pollution) kill people.

 

[Bartyfixedit]

The test involves revving the nuts off a diesel engine under no load. Meaningless.
Manufacturers designed engines that gave the best fuel efficiency and minimum co2, under real road conditions, being best for global ecology. They then had to cheat the meaningless test.
I say the manufacturers should be commended for getting round a test that, in order to pass it, involved increasing co2 per mile.

 

[gus-lopez]

That would be the same as swapping all 4 of your bald tyres with your neighbours brand new set, passing the MOT and then swapping them back.

At the time the MOT was done the vehicle was legal, however an hour later it was not and had the potential to cause mass fatalities when you skid into a bus queue as your bald tyres lost traction.

Diesel emissions (and other pollution) kill people.

& you'd be amazed how many people swop parts to pass an mot.

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[Brains]

& you'd be amazed how many people swop parts to pass an mot.

Not Surprised!
But it does not make it legal

 

[Brains]

.

 

[AndyVW]

The Techy Bit ... ALL diesel eng manufacturers, have the same algorithym "when the vehicle is stationary and somebody stands on the pedal, it will only deliver enough fuel to rev it up" as this was the only way second party test,s could measured everybody was happy.
These were also the figures that the second party's worked too that were advertised by OEM.
how-ever two countries around the world advertise there cars with an added tax to purchase price based on the emission as stated. US, and China, This was also fine until one of those, test parties in the US, decided a better way to test was to drive the car over a fixed route with a test machine in the boot.
It was then the readings they got were not as advertised. The decisions that went on after that were Not off denial, but off an incorrect statments of emission class, hence avoiding the US government, of revenue.
which led to the big fine.

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[Steve N Tracy]

Wearing my pedantic hat I respectfully disagree.
The cars passed the set test because the car recognised that, since the steering wheel had not moved, this was a (rolling road) test so it 'ran lean' and passed the test. That test was fundamentally flawed because it hadn't been properly designed. Exams and examiners must be pedantic by definition and if the questions leave room for (mis)interpretation then they haven't done their job properly.
The fact that vehicle manufactures spotted this loophole and queued up to crawl through it was wrong without question and they knew it, so they deserve the financial kicking they're getting.

No it is not actually done like that, at the start of test it involves the rollers simulating a flat surface for a set distance at a set speed and then a incline at the same speed, the wheels turning give a set number of speed inpulses for the distance covered, this is compared with the throttle resistance when it hits the incline the throttle resistance changes to maintain the speed, this is how the cheat software knows it is under test.

 

[Norrie59]

Yes...and the steering wheel does not move.

 

[Steve N Tracy]

Yes...and the steering wheel does not move.

Yes you are correct however the ecu would not know that as on most cars except for some high performance sports cars the steering angle is not input into the ecu data stream.

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[Badknee]

& you'd be amazed how many people swop parts to pass an mot.

Not Surprised!
But it does not make it legal

We had mot tyres when I was a kid and it was totally legal because I seem to remember the mot was only legal at the time of testing.

 

[Norrie59]

Yes you are correct however the ecu would not know that as on most cars except for some high performance sports cars the steering angle is not input into the ecu data stream.

On most cars nowadays ECUs are fed with masses of data from all four corners.