Creaking bush facts

Jake Royd

Jake Royd

Joined
Jan 11, 2018
Posts
1,248
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Location
Malvern Link, Malvern, UK
Funster No
51,943
MH
Chausson Welcome 85
Exp
Since 2018
I've got a bad case of creaking rear bushes (2008 Ducato)
I know I can lubricate them in situ but I want to consider a full line with coppaslip or similar.
I know the tightening torque from eLearn.
Would some kind Funster please confirm the socket sizes needed for the bush bolts an rear link please?
I think the head of the bolt is a torch pattern?
TIA
 
she may have a creaking bush, but many a good tune played on an old fiddle and all that
 
When I saw the title I thought Kate Bush had got old and creaky! :D
 
The bolt is an External Torx, the socket size is E24. Not sure the bushes should be greased with Copaslip, maybe rubber grease would be better. Perhaps someone who has done this job could confirm if it is the bushes or the spring leaves that creak. It seems to be a common problem.
Steve
 
Almost certainly the bushes. There is a Fiat technical document for the fault. The correct fix is to replace them with new bushes which Fiat have redesigned to prevent the fault.
 
We had a late 2010 registered van and Fiat changed the rear bushes - after some persuasion - in 2012, under warranty. The revised design were fitted and we had no more problems.
 
Deneb said:
Almost certainly the bushes. There is a Fiat technical document for the fault. The correct fix is to replace them with new bushes which Fiat have redesigned to prevent the fault.
Click to expand...
Do you have a link to the document?.
Haven't found it with Mr Google yet.
Tia
 
You need access to the Fiat Technical Information portal to see the notice, either as a dealer or registered repairer. The US version is retrievable though (attached). Part numbers may differ.

If you obtain rear suspension bushes from Fiat, they will be the revised type. This link may be helpful re fitting.

 

Attachments

@Deneb . Thank you very much.
The identification of old and new is especially useful.
I assume the bush in the lower rear eye of the spring is a different design and does not need replacing.
I can replace these myself but I have to be careful with my wife.
She thinks anybody working under a motorhome sized vehicle as opposed to a car is inevitably going the be crushed to death at some point.
Being serious for a minute you do have to be careful with jack capacity etc.
(y)
 
@steviebouy It's a pleasure.
With mine you can't hear anything on the open road but you can at say walking pace and you can when parked up and you walk about inside the motorhome.
I've lubricated them once (just by using a spay , not by stripping the bolts out) and it does work for quite a while bit the problem does return.
In a way it's good to know it's a common problem and is design related rather than anything else.
It's not the end of the world and it's not urgent.
 
The van in the video looked almost new from underneath, I'd have tried for a warranty repair on it.
 
Jake Royd said:
@Deneb . Thank you very much.
The identification of old and new is especially useful.
I assume the bush in the lower rear eye of the spring is a different design and does not need replacing.
I can replace these myself but I have to be careful with my wife.
She thinks anybody working under a motorhome sized vehicle as opposed to a car is inevitably going the be crushed to death at some point.
Being serious for a minute you do have to be careful with jack capacity etc.
(y)
Click to expand...

It's the spring front bush that isn't being replaced. The shackles are at the rear. When you think about it, there's very little rotational force on the front bushes as the spring is pretty much a trailing arm from that point. It's the shackles that move the most to take up the suspension movement and varying spring length.

I know what you mean about the wife. I'm very careful with mine too :D Anything for a quiet life!
 
@Deneb , bear with me one more time, i'm about to do the bushes or have them done.
It looks pretty clear now that it's the two bushes at the rear of the spring we are talking about.
Both appear to be a 'bush from each side' design, both the bushes in the chassis frame and the bushes in the spring.

The front spring bush is a different design, as can be seen in the Ebay link.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/FOR-CITR...-LEAF-SPRING-BUSH-BUSHES-KIT-06-/171190632576

Am I correct ?
 
This site contains affiliate links for which MHF may be compensated.
@Jake Royd - the US tech document I posted suggests it is only the rear bushes.

I first became aware of this when I had sight of the original Fiat bulletin, but I don't have a copy of it. I recall it mentioning having to press out the bushes in the chassis rail but whether they were the top shackle bushes or front spring bushes I really can't remember.

I suppose your options are to replace the shackle bushes as per the US document and see if it cures the creaking. If so, job done. If not, you might then have to also do the front bushes. Alternatively getting under the back of the van whilst an assistant bounces up and down inside it might help isolate the offending items. It's the shackle end that moves the most as the spring deflects in use though.

I have to say that if it were me, I would be getting the replacement bushes from Fiat, to be certain that they were the modified version. If you know of a friendly Fiat Pro dealer, they may even help with confirming what you need. I know one locally that would help, but also another that I seem to have an argument with every time I go there!

You could try emailing Gary Secker - gps@desiragroup.com - if he's still around. They are a Fiat Pro dealer in Norfolk who also sell parts on eBay. Their prices including postage are often cheaper than my local dealers, and they're quite helpful.

Alternatively Richard Boynton at SG Petch in Darlington. I've never spoken to him but I bought some parts from them a while back, also reasonably priced, and he included a card inviting me to get in touch if I needed anything else.

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@Deneb , thank you once again.
Not sure I'll buy the bushes from Ebay, I just used that link becuse it clears up which bushes may be at fault. Now , i'm certain it's only the rear bushes because the old bushes have a sleeve around the bolt which I think is part of the problem.
The modified bushes have the sleeve vulcanised into the construction of the bush.

I have not checked but i've a feeling the front spring bushes have their inner cores clamped into place and therefore they articulate using rubber deflection only. Therefore no creaking.

It's likely I'll get the local garage to do it becuse of the problem with my wife, mentioned earlier.
I just want to go armed with the info I need in case 'they know nothing'

They have lifts big enough for the average motorhome but are not Fiat specialists.

Thanks to you I have all the info I need.
I might contact the guy's given above to check out part numbers and sourcing of the correct bushes. OE parts might be safest.
 
I've just bought four bushes from eBay, seller is mrscott9223, who is asking £5.50 each. I also bought the 4 washers for the springs from Coastal Motorhomes at £3.46each. They were shown with a Fiat Genuine Parts bag but arrived in a Ziploc bag. If anyone else doesn't want to be ripped off £3.50 for a washer they are M16 x 50. Plenty of stainless penny washer on eBay that size.
Steve
 
I looked at Coastal Motorhomes as well, I noticed they list bushes for different widths of rear springs.
I don’t have the ability to check this at the moment but I will later.

Good lead on the washers, thank you.
 
Update.
Well the job has been done by my local garage.
Some good and bad and some learning here.
Here's the existing (2008?) bushes:-
IMG_20190305_125024792.jpg


You can just about see the white headed sleeve in the top bush (the one in the chassis longtitudinal)

Here is the completed job:-
IMG_20190403_175144377.jpg


You can see here that the garage got a lit of bits as OE parts from Fiat.
It consisted of bushes, drop plates and new bolts.
I am assuming the new drop plates have a slightly different offset than the original plates because they were given no washers or spacers to fit to the spring eye bush.
So lesson No 1 was. Different bits and a very different price of about £153 for a complete axle set.
Lesson no 2 was that the first bush of each pair did not 'wiggle out' with a socket like the ones in the procedure , the garage had to air chistle the outer flange off and then make up a slide hammer with a hooked end to go up the bore and pull the bush out.
I guess 11 years have played their part with the bushes getting well stuck in.
They charged me 3.5hrs labour.

The total came to £416 which I took with a sharp intake of breath , I had a figure of £250 in mind but I always underestimate garage jobs.

However , The creak has gone ! and the vehicle drives quietly (y)
Thank you to all who helped @Deneb and @steviebouy

Steviebouy, how is yours going?

PS, the garage did also mention there is another creak coming from the spring leaves on one side only. They lubricated this. I'm not going to do anything about this except lubricate it again if it comes back.
 
Well, I'm a great buyer of parts!
I've not actually got around to this job yet due to pressure of work.
We are away for a long weekend now but only going a short distance so will have to put up with the noise.
There's always next week after I've repaired the dishwasher - slightly higher up the priority list!
Anyway, great feedback, I guess I know what I'm in for now. I'll allow more time!
Cheers
Steve

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