C or CP tyres front or rear when only replacing 2 tyres (1 Viewer)

[Rocking Rivet]

I have a 3500kg rated Auto Sleeper Nuevo van which is 5.75m long. The front 2 tyres will need replacing soon
At the moment all 4 tyres are Continental Vanco Camper 215/70 R15 CP 109

1, Can I mix C and CP rated tyres as long they match on the front and back?

1a, Which tyres give the best ride and breaking in wet/ dry conditions?

2, Is it best to put the new tyres on the front or rear of the vehicle?

 

[Lenny HB]

Best tyres should go on the rear, always best to have the same tyres around. The CP will be stiffer than C also they need to run at higher pressures.

When I changed mine they were 3 years old so I just changed all 5.

 

[Rocking Rivet]

Thanks for the advice

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[Dolmen]

As always there is a difference between what is legal and what is best practice. From what I have read in the past, best practice is not to mix tyres on any one axle and where possible same tyres all round. Lots of tyre companies say a motor home should use CP tyres, lots of users swear by the additional comfort of van tyres, they must make CP for a reason, however, both legal and users choice.

 

[L' Hobo]

As always there is a difference between what is legal and what is best practice. From what I have read in the past, best practice is not to mix tyres on any one axle and where possible same tyres all round. Lots of tyre companies say a motor home should use CP tyres, lots of users swear by the additional comfort of van tyres, they must make CP for a reason, however, both legal and users choice.

I think it depends a lot on how often one uses one's van and where you intend to go?
In my experience, (as I rarely go abroad these days,) is C tyres are okay if, like me, you use your van, at least once or twice a month.
CP tyres are better, possibly, if one's van is stood unmoved for long periods.
With stiffer side walls etc, they are less likely to be affected by flat spots and various natural lights.

 

[bigtree]

My Frankia came with C tyres from the factory, whereas my Carthago came with CP tyres. I changed to C tyres for a better ride.

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[Geoff51]

I have a 3500kg rated Auto Sleeper Nuevo van which is 5.75m long. The front 2 tyres will need replacing soon
At the moment all 4 tyres are Continental Vanco Camper 215/70 R15 CP 109

1, Can I mix C and CP rated tyres as long they match on the front and back?

1a, Which tyres give the best ride and breaking in wet/ dry conditions?

2, Is it best to put the new tyres on the front or rear of the vehicle?

Lenny has the answer. You can also get additional detail here https://www.edentyres.com/should-i-fit-new-tyres-to-the-front-or-rear/

 

[Colin McCourt]

I have a 3500kg rated Auto Sleeper Nuevo van which is 5.75m long. The front 2 tyres will need replacing soon
At the moment all 4 tyres are Continental Vanco Camper 215/70 R15 CP 109

1, Can I mix C and CP rated tyres as long they match on the front and back?

1a, Which tyres give the best ride and breaking in wet/ dry conditions?

2, Is it best to put the new tyres on the front or rear of the vehicle?

Best tyres to the front as that is where you need the best grip when braking. I have C tyres on the front and CP on the rear as I needed to replace the fronts whilst in Norway. If you check the C and CP tyre data you will find four season C tyres that are identical in terms of build, noise, grip but £60+ cheaper per tyre than four season CP tyres. IMHO CP tyres are a bit of a sales con.

 

[L' Hobo]

It's good that we all have different opinions, I, personally would prefer, on my FWD (Front Wheel Drive) 3500kg PVC to have the best gripping tyres at the front while negotiating a slippery mountain road,
(and good tyres all round, with snow chains, on a RWD vehicle)

I cannot speak for others but, having been trained on skid pans and winter Swedish roads, I can control a rear wheel drift by turning into it better, with good tyres on the front, than going straight on, on ice, in a front wheel slide with poor.

As has been said, ideally, we should all be driving vehicles on the best tyres possible!

Stay safe out there!

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[Rocking Rivet]

Up date just replaced two worn out front tyres; with Continental Vanco Camper 215/70 R15 CP 109 fitted to the rear of the van. Rear tyres balanced and moved to front as they are still very good
All for the sum of £300.00

 

[TheBig1]

My tame tyre fitter sold up and retired, but he was a motorhomer and we discussed the whole CP over C type tyres. He showed me that the side wall on CP are not just stiffer, they are much thicker too. If a van sits around for months on end, safer to fit CP due to the constant weight on one spot. If you are using the van and more likely for a tyre to wear out rather than time out, use the best C (commercial) tyres you can afford

 

[Simon G]

Just read the other (newer) thread about the tyre blowout fatal crash. And the discussion about age of tyres and when to replace. So, if I should replace ALL my tyres every 10 (or some say 5) years, is there any point paying for a premium brand?

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[VXman]

Best tyres should go on the rear, always best to have the same tyres around. The CP will be stiffer than C also they need to run at higher pressures.

When I changed mine they were 3 years old so I just changed all 5.

What is your reasoning for best tyres on the rear? Are you suggesting this is the case for Front drive as well as rear?

Personally I have just moved my rears to the front as the fronts wear more quickly ( fiat ducato ) and wanted to equalise wear so I can relapce all 4 at once. Also I need better grip at the front when climbing steep hills, rough surfaces etc.

 

[whiskyman]

This thread and the other tyre threads have really confused me (not too difficult)

I have a tag axle with three in-date and excellent condition Michelin Agilis tyres, I am about to buy 4 new Toyo van tyres as recommended by umpteen folks on here.

The vehicle is a front wheel drive Fiat 3.0

Big question is which of my three axles do I put the new tyres on.

Looking forward to all the advice and perhaps the thinking behind it.

Cheers Colin

 

[philann]

If you Google it , all the advice from tyre companies is that new tyres should go on the rear.

All say:
‘Having the newer tyres with more tread on the rear axle will provide better handling, wet grip, and water clearance to avoid oversteer and aquaplaning on wet surfaces. This is the case regardless of whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive.’

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

If you Google it , all the advice from tyre companies is that new tyres should go on the rear.

All say:
‘Having the newer tyres with more tread on the rear axle will provide better handling, wet grip, and water clearance to avoid oversteer and aquaplaning on wet surfaces. This is the case regardless of whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive.’

Uni Royal certainly say so,

Good tyres on front or rear: Rotation and exchange according to plan

Changing and rotating tyres: Read on to find out why tyre rotation is important. And whether the good tyres should go on the front or rear.

www.uniroyal-tyres.com

Mike.

 

[dunnah01]

This thread and the other tyre threads have really confused me (not too difficult)

I have a tag axle with three in-date and excellent condition Michelin Agilis tyres, I am about to buy 4 new Toyo van tyres as recommended by umpteen folks on here.

The vehicle is a front wheel drive Fiat 3.0

Big question is which of my three axles do I put the new tyres on.

Looking forward to all the advice and perhaps the thinking behind it.

Cheers Colin

A prize to the first poster telling you to change all 6 tyres

But if it was my money I'd go 4 new at the back and the best 2 michelins on the front.

 

[L' Hobo]

If you Google it , all the advice from tyre companies is that new tyres should go on the rear.

All say:
‘Having the newer tyres with more tread on the rear axle will provide better handling, wet grip, and water clearance to avoid oversteer and aquaplaning on wet surfaces. This is the case regardless of whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive.’

It may be controversial but I would always have good tyres on the front!
Why?
Because I like to have control over which way my front wheels are facing because IF the rear of the vehicle starts to break away, I need to steer into it.
One cannot do that if the front is sliding also?

Plus, IF I have a blowout, I would prefer it to be on the rear and not the front wheel!

Personally, I always have good tyres on the front & rear because, it helps to get off wet grass and, at speed, there is only a few inches of rubber actually touching the road.
I want that rubber to be the best I can get! (Not always the most expensive!)

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

Yes, it's decisive topic, I was always told by more experienced elders the driving axle should have the best tread on them, for obvious reasons, but the tyre company's now say otherwise. On the upside, there's one job knocked off the to do list, as the least worn tyres are currently on the back. I suppose as long as their wearing out for pleasure it's all good
Mike.

 

[L' Hobo]

Uni Royal certainly say so,

Good tyres on front or rear: Rotation and exchange according to plan

Changing and rotating tyres: Read on to find out why tyre rotation is important. And whether the good tyres should go on the front or rear.

www.uniroyal-tyres.com

Mike.

I know that most of my experience has been on RWD Heavy vehicles but, I really don't understand the logic of putting good tyres on the rear?

Let's exaggerate, if one had good tyres on the rear, and bald tyres on the front drive wheels,
(A) where, on a slippery road, does one get the traction and control from?
(B) How can the rear wheels clear the water, snow etc. for the front steering wheels?

I need to get my van on a skid pan!

 

[VXman]

If you Google it , all the advice from tyre companies is that new tyres should go on the rear.

All say:
‘Having the newer tyres with more tread on the rear axle will provide better handling, wet grip, and water clearance to avoid oversteer and aquaplaning on wet surfaces. This is the case regardless of whether the vehicle is front or rear wheel drive.’

I think generally in a motorhome , unless in extreme icey conditions , you should be a million miles away from ever losing grip.

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[BouncyBoatFolk]

I know that most of my experience has been on RWD Heavy vehicles but, I really don't understand the logic of putting good tyres on the rear?

Let's exaggerate, if one had good tyres on the rear, and bald tyres on the front drive wheels,
(A) where, on a slippery road, does one get the traction and control from?
(B) How can the rear wheels clear the water, snow etc. for the front steering wheels?

I need to get my van on a skid pan!

Yes,it sort of flies in the face of my instincts, but
Mike.

 

[dawsey]

A little late with this, but here’s some additional food for thought..

We had a near miss with a rear about a year ago, when an elderly rear tyre started to break up. All 4 on the van at the time were Michelin Agilis.

I tried to replace all 4 but the French garage only had 2 and advised the fronts were OK so I replaced just the rear two with new Michelin crossclimate CP. It did strange things to the handling.

Before, yes the van handled like, well, a 20yr old top heavy camper van, ie terrible, but it was predictably terrible. I could always tell when I was beginning to run out of grip and the gradual loss of grip when approaching the (low) limits of the van was clearly communicated. The tendency, when a limit was being approached was clearly communicated slight understeer, which I could correct with either a dab on the brakes or a little more throttle. The handling was ‘benign’.

Post the fitment of the new, presumably much stiffer and more modern tyres at the rear the handling changed for the worse. The van felt borderline unsafe The tendency in the corners became oversteer, a feeling that the rear was trying to overtake the front. I had to drive much more carefully. And we aren’t talking about any sorts of high speeds, merely trying to keep up with traffic.

As soon as I could, a few weeks later I put the same new tyres on the front. The handling reverted to the same benign characteristics that the van had exhibited previously. 22yr old Hymer B544 based on an old x230 Fiat Ducato.

 

[Lenny HB]

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[LesW]

Back in the 60s 70s and 80s when I was a working mechanic, the best tyres where always fitted to the front.

Despite the videos above, that is still my preferred choice.

You have to ask yourself.. Do you want to handle oversteer or no steering at all.

 

[L' Hobo]

Interesting that, amongst other things, at one point in the last video, the advising driver has NO hands on the steering wheel on an icy road with a lot of wild Reindeer!
Doesn't exactly instill confidence?

 

[dawsey]

I’m not sure the above videos which discuss the handling characteristics of cars are applicable to heavily rear loaded campers with significant rear overhang.

I put brand new (all season) tyres on the rear with old and worn staying on the front, which according to the advice in the videos was the right thing to do (if changing only two) and should have created a tendency to understeer. That’s not what happened, it created oversteer and it felt very unsafe.

The feeling of the van oversteering/feeling unsafe only went away when I went back to having four exact same (but all new CP) tyres, which to be fair is what is ultimately recommended.

My own conclusion was that if you must have different tyres on the two axles, old/new or C/CP etc you are going to change the handling characteristics, so care is needed when first setting out to see what the change has done to the handling. One doesn’t want to discover a brand new and unexpected oversteer characteristic in an emergency evasive manoeuvre.

Also, the old advice about not mixing different types of tyres on the same axle under any circumstances still holds true.

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[Simon G]

Generally it's considered 'safer' to understeer (ie not turn as much as steering input) than to oversteer (which in the extreme causes the vehicle to spin with no control). Most modern cars have this characteristic engineered into the handling. Anyone who remembers when crossply tyres were prevalent should recall that if mixing crossply & radial, the law required crossplys to be on the front. Reading Dawsey's post above, it sounds like the new tyres were actually less grippy than the old ones...

 

[dawsey]

Generally it's considered 'safer' to understeer (ie not turn as much as steering input) than to oversteer (which in the extreme causes the vehicle to spin with no control). Most modern cars have this characteristic engineered into the handling. Anyone who remembers when crossply tyres were prevalent should recall that if mixing crossply & radial, the law required crossplys to be on the front. Reading Dawsey's post above, it sounds like the new tyres were actually less grippy than the old ones...

Yeah, weird huh? That’s what I thought but when the new CP CrossClimate went on the front the handling returned to what it was before and the grip, wet and dry, as expected with new tyres improved. A real head scratcher. I could only guess that maybe it was something fundamental in terms of sidewall flex or characteristic under load that caused that unnerving sensation of imminent snap oversteer that I had with just new rears. Maybe the sensation was a false one, I didn’t push it hard enough to find out…

Whatever, I now have four 2023 Michelin crossclimate CP and the benign handling is back to what it was. A very gentle onset of progressive understeer that is corrected with slight braking or increased throttle. It helps that the limits of an old camper are so low when it comes to getting to know the handling characteristics.

 

[whiskyman]

Well Rocking Rivet Lots of good and differing advice as always, who would have thought it

Thank's for the info and advice from all you knowledgeable funsters.

My instinct and limited knowledge has always to put the new tyres on the front.
Ref' my query of where to place my 4 new tyres on the three axles, so against this i have decided that the new ones will go on the rear so the trailing axles all match, hopefully this wont create over or understeer as in Dawseys' case.

Good luck with your choices

Cheers Colin