Breathalyzing drivers of motorhomes

[meanders]

But they do have to be true. Even on an empty motorway when I drive apex to apex I always indicate as that is the excuse they are going to use if there is a pull

But if the motorway is truly empty, then could they claim that by indicating it shows you have not noticed that there is nobody on the road to indicate too and are therefore driving carelessly?

 

[Wildbill]

Funny thing happened to me today I had a light out
Not like me to not check on the way in to Doncaster to get some blood test done I got pulled over
I had to blow in the machine I thought it was a bag but no it a computer thing
I got to keep the straw thing
Never been pulled over in years
WB

 

[mikash]

In Norway, 25% of fatal accidents involve drink driving. In the UK 5-6% of fatal accidents involve it.
Its pretty clear they have a bigger problem in Norway with drink driving

Where'd you get those numbers?
5-6% seems kinda low. For example this article would suggest 2-3x that.

Drink-driving Great Britain: Deaths at highest for 13 years

But fatalities are significantly down on historic highs and the number of casualties has been falling.

www.bbc.com

"Drink-drive fatalities made up 18% of all road deaths in 2022, according to the new statistics."

25% for Norway on the other hand seems pretty high.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15389588.2023.2174801#abstract

That study suggests <15% over the last decade and a decreasing trend, although includes passengers as well so not directly comparable.

In any case I think one key piece of information you don't account for is that the legal limit in Norway is 0.02 and I believe UK is 0.05/0.08? That's why I wrote you have to understand how the statistics are gathered - a norwegian is considered drunk after a pint and in UK the limit is more like 2-3 pints depending on where you are.

 

[mikash]

Random screening appears to be effective in a wide range of both United States and Australian populations.

the U.S?? In many states they do not even have any type of vehicle inspection systems? I watch lorry mechanics refitting gearboxes whilst wearing guns ?? hardly a worthwhile study in a country where the laws are so lax they are a joke. Aussie out in the sticks I would think would be similar with them all thinking it is perfectly ok

Yes, they're about US and Australia. I think they still have more applicability than random hand waving though

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0001457514001778

"In most European countries (e.g. France, Norway, Spain, The Netherlands) random roadside breath testing is allowed and in a few countries (e.g. the United Kingdom and Germany) some kind of suspicion, for instance the smell of alcohol, is conditional for a policeman to test a driver (Österberg and Karlsson, 2002). Both systems are effective, but random breath testing was found to be twice as effective as selective testing, i.e. testing only after suspicion (Henstridge et al., 1997).
Doubling the number of random breath tests in the Netherlands was found to decrease the number of drink driving offenders by approximately 25% (Mathijssen, 2005). "

Maybe it really isn't that different Europe?

 

[Ernesto]

Where'd you get those numbers?
5-6% seems kinda low. For example this article would suggest 2-3x that.

Drink-driving Great Britain: Deaths at highest for 13 years

But fatalities are significantly down on historic highs and the number of casualties has been falling.

www.bbc.com

"Drink-drive fatalities made up 18% of all road deaths in 2022, according to the new statistics."

25% for Norway on the other hand seems pretty high.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/15389588.2023.2174801#abstract

That study suggests <15% over the last decade and a decreasing trend, although includes passengers as well so not directly comparable.

In any case I think one key piece of information you don't account for is that the legal limit in Norway is 0.02 and I believe UK is 0.05/0.08? That's why I wrote you have to understand how the statistics are gathered - a norwegian is considered drunk after a pint and in UK the limit is more like 2-3 pints depending on where you are.

Same place as you I guess ....Google? Random testing was introduced in 1981 in Norway so for them still to be at anything like 15% shows that it has a place, but isnt the whole answer. But of course it depends on what level they consider as "contributing".

Random testing is one thing. I've merely pointed out that profiling people for testing is different to random testing and feels like the wrong approach


"Drink driving contributes to approximately 25% of fatal road crashes in Norway, according to data from 2017-2020. The Norwegian government's road safety strategy for 2022-2025 includes measures to reduce drink-driving, such as potentially extending the use of alcohol interlock devices to taxis. Despite strict penalties for drink-driving, the issue remains a significant concern for road safety efforts in the country.

Key Statistics & Data

• Contribution to Fatalities: Drink driving is estimated to account for around 25% of all road deaths in Norway.
• Reported Incidents: In 2021, police reported 9,573 individuals for drink-driving.
• Contributing Factor: Between 2017 and 2020, driving under the influence of alcohol was a factor in 25% of all fatal collisions".

 

[B-JandBella]

Most EU countries are now "Zero Tollerence". That means, not even one beer...

I can't understand why we have not gone down the same route in the UK!

On a drink driving course, they showed us Irish adds that are shown within adverts about drink driving and they really hit home because they are quite graphic, but you never see these adds shown on UK tv. Why, I really don't know!!
To see see them, you deffo wouldn't do drink drive for sure!!!

Yes, I can put my hands up and say, I have been done for DR10, and going on the course has severely changed my way of how I drink to drive the following day.....

We all make mistakes at time in our lives, and I would just like to say, I have learned a costly lesson!
License gone, job gone, money worries, and lots of problems and very close to wife gone. (But she loves me!)
NEVER AGAIN!

 

[B-JandBella]

Now you've started something!
Back in the late sixtys early seventys, you wouldn't dream of going out in your car if you had a tail light out or brake light not working, 'cos you WILL be pulled by the 'ol bill!

I go up the road night trunking, and the amount of cars (and the odd lorry, I my must say) that have got:
Tail light out
Head light out
And I've even seen cars towing trailers and caravans with NO trailer lights at all, but do the coppers stop them? Of course not, they're on their way to the motorway services for their free cuppa and a cake!

I've ever seen cars and vans with no lights at all going up the motorway...........unbelieveable!

Some things really get my goat! And the police not doing their duty to keep the public and other road users safe is one of them!!.....
Where are our taxes going to??

I look forward to reading your comments on this......

 

[bobnick]

Been stopped in Spain for breathalyser in the morning several times over the years. Nowt new.

 

[stewartwebr]

Getting off a ferry, where there's a bar. That is probably enough suspicion of having some alcohol in your system

Every time we have arrived on the Newcastle to Amsterdam ferry into Amsterdam the Dutch Police carried out mandatory breath tests immediately after passport control. No idea what happens if you test positive, but given the observed behaviour on the ferry I would assume a high number of positive tests.

 

[haganap]

Well Im currently in Norway on our way to Tromso.
I have to say that the attitude to alcohol in Norway is extremely refreshing, excuse the pun..

Im in Sommaroy, I'm out of wine, nearest vinmonopply to buy some is ages away and not worth the hassle.

I'll go without.

In 5 weeks, we've seen 2 police cars..

 

[BikerGraham]

Every time we have arrived on the Newcastle to Amsterdam ferry into Amsterdam the Dutch Police carried out mandatory breath tests immediately after passport control. No idea what happens if you test positive, but given the observed behaviour on the ferry I would assume a high number of positive tests.

last two journeys I've made on this route were with the van on one and on a motorbike on the other.

with the motorbike, they breathalysed around 90% of the bikers. only ones that didn't where when the officer had to go back for more breathalyser tubes !!!

with the van, as vehicles got off they directed you into one of the passport control lanes. So random allocation. One of the lanes, every vehicles driver was breathalysed.

I heard somewhere, that if you fail, they direct you to one side and wont let you through passport control, effectively into their country, until you have sobered up and pass a breathalyser. Whether that is true or not i don't know.

 

[Ernesto]

Most EU countries are now "Zero Tollerence". That means, not even one beer...

I can't understand why we have not gone down the same route in the UK!

On a drink driving course, they showed us Irish adds that are shown within adverts about drink driving and they really hit home because they are quite graphic, but you never see these adds shown on UK tv. Why, I really don't know!!
To see see them, you deffo wouldn't do drink drive for sure!!!

Yes, I can put my hands up and say, I have been done for DR10, and going on the course has severely changed my way of how I drink to drive the following day.....

We all make mistakes at time in our lives, and I would just like to say, I have learned a costly lesson!
License gone, job gone, money worries, and lots of problems and very close to wife gone. (But she loves me!)
NEVER AGAIN!

Several good reasons for not having “zero tolerance” I can see.
Its impossible for someone to know if they are at 0%, so you destroy parts of the economy (hospitality) for very little benefit, targeting people who arent the issue. Trace amounts of alcohol the morning after are not the biggest issue.
Focus on education and enforcement of the truly dangerous drivers and find a way to include drugs rather than pursuing every last little scrap of alcohol.

 

[The Wino]

Several good reasons for not having “zero tolerance” I can see.
Its impossible for someone to know if they are at 0%, so you destroy parts of the economy (hospitality) for very little benefit, targeting people who arent the issue. Trace amounts of alcohol the morning after are not the biggest issue.
Focus on education and enforcement of the truly dangerous drivers and find a way to include drugs rather than pursuing every last little scrap of alcohol.

I would like to see some evidence. If studies did show a significant reduction in driving performance and judgement the day after at a low alcohol level we ought to adopt a lower level like in Scotland and Wales. If it the same between that and zero lower still. With the hospitality argument we had all that with the smoking ban but I think the vast majority would say it's been one of the best things ever. Between the harm to hospitality and the harm to people due to drink driving I think the majority wouldn't like to go back to the pre breathalyser days but to go further I personally would like some evidence.

 

[L' Hobo]

Get used to it folks. Since July 2024, all new vehicles in the EU have been pre-installed with an interface allowing a breathalyser-based locking system to be connected to the car, which can stop the vehicle if the driver fails a breathalyser test. The so-called "alcolocks" are not compulsory in the EU, just the interface on newly-built cars. You can see what will be coming next. I can’t imagine the UK won’t follow the EU (sorry Nigel).

I don’t have a problem with it so long as the technology is reliable and can be easily repaired.

These are already fitted and used by some Coach and Rail companies in the UK and not only measure the alcohol but for drugs also I'm told?

There was a Newspaper report last year about a Train one being so sensitive that a driver kept failing until it was discovered that his wife was packing his lunchbox with multi seeded crust bread sandwiches?

 

[Ernesto]

I would like to see some evidence. If studies did show a significant reduction in driving performance and judgement the day after at a low alcohol level we ought to adopt a lower level like in Scotland and Wales. If it the same between that and zero lower still. With the hospitality argument we had all that with the smoking ban but I think the vast majority would say it's been one of the best things ever. Between the harm to hospitality and the harm to people due to drink driving I think the majority wouldn't like to go back to the pre breathalyser days but to go further I personally would like some evidence.

I can understand the argument for Scottish levels in England. But extrapolating that and saying that then supports going completely zero doesnt make sense to me

You might as well argue that due to the health impacts of alcohol, we should ban it all together and go totally prohibition. Or that because seat belts work, everyone should have 4 point harnesses in all cars. Or because crash helmets work, all drivers should wear one.

At some point, the law of diminishing returns must come into play and be set against the impacts. Sure, the 300 deaths from alcohol related road crashes is not great. But twice that number die falling down stairs every year. Ban all staircases ?

 

[Jez1966]

Today on the E6 120km towards Tromso the police were breathalyzing all motorhome drivers. The time was approx 10.00am
So if visiting Norway I would suggest you be very careful what alcohol you consume as a driver. Last night I only had alcohol free beer so showed 0 alcohol.

Just back from 3 months across Scandic's, 1 month driving up Norway, we were stopped 3 times, all above Tromso and it was all vehicle typres, 10 at a time.
Worth noting Norway has a DD limit of 20 milligrams per 100 ml of blood compared to Scotlands 50mg and the rest 80mg per 100ml of blood.
We AlcoSense DIY unit, bought to comply with French law that the never seemed to have enforced to carry 2 breathalyzers.
Not read all pages so someone my have already pointed this out

 

[The Wino]

I t

I can understand the argument for Scottish levels in England. But extrapolating that and saying that then supports going completely zero doesnt make sense to me

You might as well argue that due to the health impacts of alcohol, we should ban it all together and go totally prohibition. Or that because seat belts work, everyone should have 4 point harnesses in all cars. Or because crash helmets work, all drivers should wear one.

At some point, the law of diminishing returns must come into play and be set against the impacts. Sure, the 300 deaths from alcohol related road crashes is not great. But twice that number die falling down stairs every year. Ban all staircases ?

I still think we need to see the evidence. How about a first step is mandatory breath tests for anyone involved in an accident or incident in the morning. If the levels are really low ( below Scotland) it's chasing a problem that isn't there. If there's a significant number above look into it. As I said there's also the performance Vs alcohol level research.

 

[Jez1966]

How about a first step is mandatory breath tests for anyone involved in an accident or incident in the morning.

It is already "mandatory" that if your involved in an motorvehicle incident at any time you are breathalysed.

 

[BikerGraham]

It is already "mandatory" that if your involved in an motorvehicle incident at any time you are breathalysed.

Well I had a car accident last month and the police did not breathalyse me.

 

[VXman]

A sign of the times I guess......guilty, unless proven innocent.

I'd be all for regular checks by the police on drivers and cars in the UK. You only need to watch one of these police tv programmes to realise that there must be hundreds (thousands?) of untaxed, uninsured, not MOT, unsafe, no license etc vehicles/drivers on our roads. Plus drunk and drug driving. You also only need to drive down a motorway to see appalling unsafe driving.

More traffic police and random spot checks of everything is the only cure. The reason it is so bad is that drivers know there is a very small chance of being caught on the roads in the UK.

 

[gus-lopez]

But if the motorway is truly empty, then could they claim that by indicating it shows you have not noticed that there is nobody on the road to indicate too and are therefore driving carelessly?

No the requirement is that you indicate when performing a maneouvre. I indicate everywhere all the time,empty roundabouts ,car parks ,everywhere. Failing to do so could be classed as careless driving
That would be my answer along with " I know what a load of two faced scum you are so I indicate as I was taught to do everywhere, If I wasn't you'd be saying I should"

I can't understand why we have not gone down the same route in the UK!

I do not drink .I wash in 96º alcohol many times a day (covid) when returning to my vehicle. Hands,face,nose ,eyelids, etc I'm now more careful about doing it in case the old bill are likely to be about

I'm out of wine, nearest vinmonopply to buy some is ages away and not worth the hassle.

When brother lived in Sweden he was saying that he could only buy alcohol in his own locality.

Several good reasons for not having “zero tolerance” I can see.
Its impossible for someone to know if they are at 0%, so you destroy parts of the economy (hospitality) for very little benefit, targeting people who arent the issue. Trace amounts of alcohol the morning after are not the biggest issue.
Focus on education and enforcement of the truly dangerous drivers and find a way to include drugs rather than pursuing every last little scrap of alcohol.

As above
here in spain it is 0.25 for normal drivers & 0.15 for professional* drivers & any new drivers under two years from test
* professional= lorry ,bus, taxi, ambulance, fireman, policeman,delivery drivers,etc

More traffic police and random spot checks of everything is the only cure.

No still won't work They have to be physically disabled to prevent them driving again.Nothing else works

 

[bobnick]

Never been stopped for a breathalizer in Dubai in 30 + years.

 

[HappyDays-NI]

No the requirement is that you indicate when performing a maneouvre. I indicate everywhere all the time,empty roundabouts ,car parks ,everywhere. Failing to do so could be classed as careless driving

Many years ago, when doing my advanced driving, I was told that you should only signal when other road users are present - this being to acknowledge that you are keeping aware of the prescence of other users in the vicinity.

 

[Ernesto]

There is no magic money tree. Those advocating more intervention by police need to indentify what they stop them doing.
I’d rather they focused on burglary, violent crime and drugs, than an ever more zealous pursuit of those who had a glass of wine or two the night before.

 

[fishplug]

The UK limits aren't just based on breath. They can also take blood and ..um.. take the pi.... a urine sample

The drink drive limit

The legal alcohol limits for drivers in the UK - microgrammes, milligrammes

www.gov.uk

Easiest option is simply to not drink in my opinion.

 

[gus-lopez]

here in spain it is 0.25 for normal drivers & 0.15 for professional* drivers & any new drivers under two years from test
* professional= lorry ,bus, taxi, ambulance, fireman, policeman,delivery drivers,etc

just remembered that they are proposing reducing it to 0,1 for everybody which basically means that nothing whatsoever can be drunk

Never been stopped for a breathalizer in Dubai in 30 + years.

never been stopped anywhere in 54 years

Many years ago, when doing my advanced driving, I was told that you should only signal when other road users are present - this being to acknowledge that you are keeping aware of the prescence of other users in the vicinity.

yes & that is quite correct & what the police themselves do if there are no vehicles in sight.
These days with cameras about,& the fact that I do not trust them in any respect, I stick to indicating / will argue the toss if pulled.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

But if the motorway is truly empty, then could they claim that by indicating it shows you have not noticed that there is nobody on the road to indicate too and are therefore driving carelessly?

If there's no road user nearby who would benefit from the use of the indicator, its use isn't necessary.

As I've read it; in another thread recently, it was written that some lane guidance software requires use of an indicator to change lanes. I shan't drive such a vehicle with lane guidance unless and until that indicator requirement is removed. Things which assist may be good, eg parking sensors. Things which interfere with my driving or take control over any element of it, are not good.

 

[BikerGraham]

If there's no road user nearby who would benefit from the use of the indicator, its use isn't necessary.

As I've read it; in another thread recently, it was written that some lane guidance software requires use of an indicator to change lanes. I shan't drive such a vehicle with lane guidance unless and until that indicator requirement is removed. Things which assist may be good, eg parking sensors. Things which interfere with my driving or take control over any element of it, are not good.

My car has this on it. It’s a pain to switch off at the start of every journey.
It picks up on the white lines and if you drift over them the steering vibrates / gently applies pressure, unless you have already indicated.

It’s a right pain and another one of the EU mandates.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

My car has this on it. It’s a pain to switch off at the start of every journey.
It picks up on the white lines and if you drift over them the steering vibrates / gently applies pressure, unless you have already indicated.

It’s a right pain and another one of the EU mandates.

I wonder whether it should be an option rather than be fitted by default. Also, whether an auto electrician or the main dealer (when the vehicle is being sold new) would disable it on request, a condition of sale.

 

[mikash]

I wonder whether it should be an option rather than be fitted by default. Also, whether an auto electrician or the main dealer (when the vehicle is being sold new) would disable it on request, a condition of sale.

I think lane assist was made mandatory in EU few years back for new cars and has to be enabled by default. Aftermarket permanent disabling would thus make the vehicle no longer roadworthy in EU. Or I don't actually know how that'd work, technically the car wouldn't any more fulfill the requirements for type approval.