Battery Idea (medical device) (1 Viewer)

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Puddleduck

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I'm not sure if this is possible or advisable but I have been thinking. I know this is VERY dangerous!

We need medical equipment overnight and have been advised by the tech at the hospital not to use a standard leisure battery or anything else connected to any other power drain. That completely rules out the normal leisure battery.

He has given us a contact for specialist batteries recommended for the machine. They are rechargeable.

My idea is that we can use one of these batteries connected so that it only feeds the machine. It will need some sort of clever current regulator I expect but the hospital tech and the machine / battery manufacturer can come up with the spec and goods for that. This battery would have to be a stand alone and not connected to anything except the machine. Charging this additional battery might need some thinking about but a dedicated solar panel might do the job...

What do you think?
 

hilldweller

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First and foremost, what happens if the electricity fails ?

What is the wattage of the device ? How long does it run for ?

Does it normally run on mains ?

A big lead acid leisure battery is one tough cookie, probably less likely to fail than some hi-tech LiPo battery. Solar plus lead acid plus quality inverter is seriously well tested reliable technology. Estimate £300.
 

pappajohn

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12v is 12v....no matter what the source.

I can understand the need for a standalone battery but I don't see why it should be a specific type.
Any battery connected to a charger can suffer power spikes which may damage equipment, but only while connected.
 

Wildman

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A battery is a battery golf cart batteries are deep discharge. What really matters is hours of use, current drawn and how you intend to replace that charge. Solar, EHU, B2B, fuel cell, genny, hamster on a treadmill or whatever or whatever. So more figures needed please before anyone can really comment.
 

DBK

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If you only need it overnight then you should be able to charge it from the MH electrics (disconnected from the medical gizmo) during the day - but without knowing the AH or wattages involved it is not possible to be too specific.

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34127

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The hospital tech can only recommend what the manufacturer specifies and should also be able to recommend a suitable charger. When attaching a battery to a medical device the battery in effect also becomes a medical device and therefore has to meet certain approvals.
 
Nov 5, 2013
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When I needed to use my CPAP machine on 12v I spoke to the manufactures of the device,got more sense out of them and information as to what I needed.
 

Randonneur

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We met a German chap in Portugal one winter who used an Efoy to keep his breathing machine going during the night. Carthago built it in for him. Don't know if this would work
 
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Puddleduck

Puddleduck

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The hospital tech can only recommend what the manufacturer specifies and should also be able to recommend a suitable charger. When attaching a battery to a medical device the battery in effect also becomes a medical device and therefore has to meet certain approvals.

That's why we are going through the tech and the manufacturer. Generally the device runs on mains and has an emergency backup. We have used the emergency backup when off mains but I didn't sleep as I was terrified it would fail!

I originally thought that Brian's suggestion would be the way to go but the invertor specified by the manufacturer was over twice what Brian quoted..... if we use anything else and damage the equipment we are liable of course.

I need to look into it further but think a dedicated battery is probably the way to go. :) Or we will just stay on sites with EHU.

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Nov 5, 2013
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Which is why they sold me the converter to go between the battery and the device to protect it.
 
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Puddleduck

Puddleduck

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12v is 12v....no matter what the source.

I can understand the need for a standalone battery but I don't see why it should be a specific type.
Any battery connected to a charger can suffer power spikes which may damage equipment, but only while connected.

The battery has to be connected to a regulator that then connects to the device - we have the same for the mains when it runs off that. I'm pretty sure it is not 12v.

Any manufacturer will tell you not to use anything they haven't made or approved.

Doesn't mean it won't work satisfactory
But if it gets damaged I don't want to have to pay a few thousand to replace it :(
 

g8ysn

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ann [the wife] uses her nippy [cpap]machine via a 1000 inverter [used to be 150 0n a separate battery]now via 3/120 amp battery bank fed by 170 solar panel,s,work,s ok the only thing is i now have to use one as well will test my setup,have genny as backup for scooter,s or when lot,s of power required, power fed through power surge protection
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34127

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That's why we are going through the tech and the manufacturer. Generally the device runs on mains and has an emergency backup. We have used the emergency backup when off mains but I didn't sleep as I was terrified it would fail!

I originally thought that Brian's suggestion would be the way to go but the invertor specified by the manufacturer was over twice what Brian quoted..... if we use anything else and damage the equipment we are liable of course.

I need to look into it further but think a dedicated battery is probably the way to go. :)

It's not so much a chance of damaging the equipment but when the manufacturer applies for approval for the medical device he has to have it tested with accessories such as a battery and hence only that battery will be approved for use. This does not mean it won't work with other battery types but if anything does goes wrong then the manufacturer will not be responsible.
 
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Puddleduck

Puddleduck

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It's not so much a chance of damaging the equipment but when the manufacturer applies for approval for the medical device he has to have it tested with accessories such as a battery and hence only that battery will be approved for use. This does not mean it won't work with other battery types but if anythingdoes goes wrong then the manufacturer will not be responsible.
Yes, we have already been told any damage if not used as advised and with the approved accessories and we are liable for replacement.

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TheBig1

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the inbuilt backup battery is good for 4 or 5 hours. an alarm sounds a good while before the machine switches off to wake you. I run mine of a separate 110amp leisure battery and small inverter. recharge using a generator with the inverter isolated. no issues with the power source as believe it or not the mains supply often fluctuates in many houses too.

the tech at the hospital is trying to make his own job simpler by insisting you only use an approved battery pack. I asked for an external battery pack as listed in the manual only to be told that the hospital cant source them. I explained my plan to the tech and he agreed it would be fine
 

g8ysn

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if as stated you have in line power surge protection any difference in power will be dealt with either ehu/inverter
dont forget if you use a genny earth it [learnt a verry exspensive lessone
 
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34127

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Out of interest, what would you do if the device failed, for any reason. Assuming it was prescribed by a clinic at your local hospital, have you asked if they provide an out of hours service for repair or replacement.
 

TheBig1

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with mine a replacement will be couriered out same/next day plus i switch to an oxygen cylinder. the hospital have a direct call number to the specialist ward which we are issued with on discharge

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Apr 22, 2013
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The mains input of your device will as a minimum been designed and tested to run EU "standard electric". That 230V plus 15% to minus 10%. Thats from 207V to 264.5V the frequency can vary from 49.8 to 50.2 Hz.

The point is that a decent pure sine wave invert will give you 230V "mains" electricity that easily mets these requirements so your device will be more than happy.

I've measured the output from my inverter and the voltage varies by less than one volt and the crystal controlled frequency is so close to 50Hz I couldn't measure a discrepancy.

You are far more likely to get a spike, surge or drop out from the grid electricity than you are from an inverter on a dedicated leisure battery. Buy a pure sine wave inverter that is twice the wattage (or VA) rating of your equipment and you will be fine.
 
Aug 18, 2014
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The mains input of your device will as a minimum been designed and tested to run EU "standard electric". That 230V plus 15% to minus 10%. Thats from 207V to 264.5V the frequency can vary from 49.8 to 50.2 Hz.


It is +/- 10% now.

" We are now in 2014 and the permissible limits for Voltage variation in the UK and Ireland are a voltage range of 207 Volts to 253 Volts. This is in accordance with European Standard EN50160."(y)
 
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Have a look at "GoodKnight 420G CPAP" The thing costs less than £300 and can be run from 110v, 240v, or 12 volt.. It comes with a Lithium Ion battery and is guaranteed for 2 years.. I apologise in advance if am speaking out of line, but I didn't know what CPAP was and went online to look.. I just thought that your "failsafe" power system may cost more than this.. Also you won't be "liable" for any damage to the hospitals piece of kit ..
(Just trying to help)
 

DBK

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Have a look at "GoodKnight 420G CPAP" The thing costs less than £300 and can be run from 110v, 240v, or 12 volt.. It comes with a Lithium Ion battery and is guaranteed for 2 years.. I apologise in advance if am speaking out of line, but I didn't know what CPAP was and went online to look.. I just thought that your "failsafe" power system may cost more than this.. Also you won't be "liable" for any damage to the hospitals piece of kit ..
(Just trying to help)
The battery for that is an extra I think and is over £200, but what price a good night's sleep?
 
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Been running a CPAP machine on an inverter for 6 years, sometimes for periods of up to 3 months in Italy. I have 2 leisure batteries and a solar panel. No problems so far. I lived for a long while without a machine so I don't worry.

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Puddleduck

Puddleduck

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If it was just a CPAP it would be easy....

Also even with a CPAP they are tuned to the individual and it isn't one size fits all. Someone with sleep apnoea will need completely different settings to someone with any respiratory distress syndromes. (just an example)

There is a dedicated number to call in case of failure / power outage etc. If the power outage is going to be for more than a couple of days then it is a hospital admission. :(

The machine we have requires a 20v input not 12v which is perhaps why they specify the batteries that they do.

Looks like my idea was almost CPAP anyway so will crawl away under a stone.....
 
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34127

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If it was just a CPAP it would be easy....

Also even with a CPAP they are tuned to the individual and it isn't one size fits all. Someone with sleep apnoea will need completely different settings to someone with any respiratory distress syndromes. (just an example)

There is a dedicated number to call in case of failure / power outage etc. If the power outage is going to be for more than a couple of days then it is a hospital admission. :(

The machine we have requires a 20v input not 12v which is perhaps why they specify the batteries that they do.

Looks like my idea was almost CPAP anyway so will crawl away under a stone.....

The reason for asking about what to do if a failure occurs is that there may be a hospital in the area you are visiting (assuming it is the UK) that could provide a service to you if this occurred. I realise that that this is a slim chance but may be worth asking.
 
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Puddleduck

Puddleduck

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The reason for asking about what to do if a failure occurs is that there may be a hospital in the area you are visiting (assuming it is the UK) that could provide a service to you if this occurred. I realise that that this is a slim chance but may be worth asking.

You phone the number you have been given and they do the rest no matter where you are in the world :)

Getting travel insurance is a nightmare.
 
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34127

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You phone the number you have been given and they do the rest no matter where you are in the world :)

Getting travel insurance is a nightmare.
That's good back up you have got, must be comforting knowing that you have it.

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