Battery choice

[dazandandrea]

Hi ive seen that quite a few people are changing from lead/acid to lithium batteries.
What are the benefits ( please use simple terminology, im from yorkshire) or down sides to doing this.
What changes would need to be made to a standard set up ie 2008 boxer , twin battery with split charge and mains.
Thanks

 

[Cush]

I’m going to follow this one closely dazandandrea . I have two lead acid batteries that I need to replace. When in storage I can’t give them the charging routine that more expensive batteries would need and the van only gets occasional use during autumn / winter. I tend to spend 4 days max off grid at a time in the summer and the solar keeps everything topped up then.

I watch the thread with interest. Thanks for posting

 

[dazandandrea]

Just curious as we have spent lots of time off grid in our old Vw T25 and never had a problem with batteries.
Admittedly we didnt run much off the batteries ,all led lighting etc. Waiting for explanations with baited breath.

 

[Tombola]

Lithium although are getting cheaper, are an expensive alternatve if you dont use lots of power

Advantages are
quicker charging,
more power for less weight
More user capacity per battery instead of 50% for lead acid

disadvantages///cost//b2b required ideally, solar

 

[Raul]

Just curious as we have spent lots of time off grid in our old Vw T25 and never had a problem with batteries.
Admittedly we didnt run much off the batteries ,all led lighting etc. Waiting for explanations with baited breath.

What you need the batteries for? Ppl change for various reasons, and there is only one downside: upfront cost. Positives? Everything.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Ivory55]

If you use mainly campsite it’s probably a waste of money, if doing nothing but wild camping possible it’s worth the money. Depends how much free cash you have.

 

[the1andonly]

If you use mainly campsite it’s probably a waste of money, if doing nothing but wild camping possible it’s worth the money. Depends how much free cash you have.

Slight variation on above ,If you use mainly EHU it’s probably a waste of money, if doing nothing but self sufficient camping and dont change van every month then it’s worth the money and agravation. Cost very dependent on how much is done diy and what equipment you already have. One thing's for sure it wont be cheap.

 

[Lenny HB]

Main advantage is quick charging but you need you need the systems in place to take advantage of them. You need a decent about of solar say 400 watts, a good B2B and ideally a mains charger with a suitable profile.
Capacity wise not much different to gel as best not to charge over 90% or discharge below 10%. Also worth fitting a good battery monitor.
If you spend most of you time off grid well worth it but if you use EHU a lot a waste of money.

 

[The Wino]

Main advantage is quick charging but you need you need the systems in place to take advantage of them. You need a decent about of solar say 400 watts, a good B2B and ideally a mains charger with a suitable profile.
Capacity wise not much different to gel as best not to charge over 90% or discharge below 10%. Also worth fitting a good battery monitor.
If you spend most of you time off grid well worth it but if you use EHU a lot a waste of money.

Why lot's of solar and b2b?. We drive every day so can't see the amount of solar needs to be any more than now in fact it could probably be zero!. We need to get a new leisure battery as ours died at the end of the year but were probably just getting the same again 90ah lead acid as the previous lasted 7 years and we never struggled.

 

[suavecarve]

Have been in a similar conundrum for about 3 weeks.
New motorhome and wondering what to upgrade it to.
The final final decision is I am just adding 175 watts of solar to make 275
I am adjusting the MPPT to make it lithium ready
I am adding (i know this isnt necessary atm) a victron b2b charger 30 amp and am increasing the width of the wires.
An, as yet to be determined, inverter
I am NOT adding lithium at this stage but increasing to 190 AH of battery.

My theory is that 900 nicker just about buys me 200ah of lithium. The FiL is likely to change his batteries in his motorhome in less than 12 months. I can see how well we perform having only having spent £150 on battery upgrade before I take the leap of faith and when I do jump the price is more likely to have descended and I ll more or less get my money back on the battery I just purchased to top up the 95ah that came with the motorhome.

So I am taking a halfway stage before the leap

I ought to add that we will only use batteries for 12 volt lighting, 12 volt tv if we use it, charging numerous things on 12 volt, and hammering them with 2 ebike batteries.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[Stealaway]

Ignoring the fact that I could buy at least three sets of L/A instead.
I still worry about paying all that money and wrecking them by charging them wrongly.
We hardly ever use sites (happy FLT) and spend around 100 nights away each year and our L/A last at least 5 years.

 

[Eggs]

Just curious as we have spent lots of time off grid in our old Vw T25 and never had a problem with batteries.
Admittedly we didnt run much off the batteries ,all led lighting etc. Waiting for explanations with baited breath.

If you don't have a problem with the set-up you have save your money.

 

[Lenny HB]

Why lot's of solar and b2b?. We drive every day so can't see the amount of solar needs to be any more than now in fact it could probably be zero!.

Because the main advantage of Lithium is being able to charge them fast, if you can't do that not much point in fitting them.

 

[stevewagner]

Have been in a similar conundrum for about 3 weeks.
New motorhome and wondering what to upgrade it to.
The final final decision is I am just adding 175 watts of solar to make 275
I am adjusting the MPPT to make it lithium ready
I am adding (i know this isnt necessary atm) a victron b2b charger 30 amp and am increasing the width of the wires.
An, as yet to be determined, inverter
I am NOT adding lithium at this stage but increasing to 190 AH of battery.

My theory is that 900 nicker just about buys me 200ah of lithium. The FiL is likely to change his batteries in his motorhome in less than 12 months. I can see how well we perform having only having spent £150 on battery upgrade before I take the leap of faith and when I do jump the price is more likely to have descended and I ll more or less get my money back on the battery I just purchased to top up the 95ah that came with the motorhome.

So I am taking a halfway stage before the leap

I ought to add that we will only use batteries for 12 volt lighting, 12 volt tv if we use it, charging numerous things on 12 volt, and hammering them with 2 ebike batteries.

Remember that 190amps of lead acid batteries only provides 95amps of usable power

 

[suavecarve]

Remember that 190amps of lead acid batteries only provides 95amps of usable power

Aware of that and we found a cunning plan for charging batteries from other sources last year (when I had 200ah) but less solar.
We were clever fortunate enough to buy Bosch batteries for the bikes and have found numerous places they charge them for you for the princely sum of nothing.

Bosch free recharge points in Vaucluse

Does what it says in the headline. 60 recharging points at shops museums hotels tourist information gaffes where you turn up on your Bosch propelled cycle and hand over the battery while you go for a beer or sightseeing and come back and it's fully charged. Cracking system if you have a Bosch...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

Because the main advantage of Lithium is being able to charge them fast, if you can't do that not much point in fitting them.

My point being we travel probably for at least an hour most days what charge does that give compared to solar for a day especially in winter?. Theres no point generating more than you can store.

 

[Lenny HB]

My point being we travel probably for at least an hour most days what charge does that give compared to solar for a day especially in winter?. Theres no point generating more than you can store.

Depends on your use pattern if you stay in one place for a day or two solar has benifits. Agree not much form solar in a UK winter but fine in Spain.

 

[autorouter]

My point being we travel probably for at least an hour most days what charge does that give compared to solar for a day especially in winter?. Theres no point generating more than you can store.

An hour of driving will give about 25Ah with the average alternator/split charge relay arrangement. A 50A B2B will give 50Ah for the same driving time. A 100W solar panel will give you about 30Ah on an average summer day. It depends on your lifestyle and how much power you use.

 

[dazandandrea]

Think ill be sticking with my current set up.
It works for us i our " current " sotuation.

 

[The Wino]

Think ill be sticking with my current set up.
It works for us i our " current " sotuation.

I think we'll be doing the same. I think there's a lot of money being spent on stuff that is bought because everyone else is getting it!

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[dazandandrea]

Shhhhh dont say that.

 

[Tombola]

Think ill be sticking with my current set up.
It works for us i our " current " sotuation.

yup,if you dont need the power save yourself a couple of quid.

 

[cyberyacht]

One of the main advantages of lithium is its ability to cope with heavy demand from inverters. Microwaves will pull more than can reasonably be supplied by LA. Kettles and toasters can also be used (I know - use gas), saving on other sources of energy. If it's just 12V stuff and possibly an E bike battery then a decent gel battery would probably suffice.

 

[dazandandrea]

No microwave. Gas hob for water . Fridge on gas or ehu when possible.
But thanks for the explanations.

 

[pau1phi11ips]

I think we'll be doing the same. I think there's a lot of money being spent on stuff that is bought because everyone else is getting it!

I went with Lithium because it's cheaper in the long run and a lot lighter. It depends on your use for the power, we don't have any gas.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}

 

[The Wino]

I went with Lithium because it's cheaper in the long run and a lot lighter. It depends on your use for the power, we don't have any gas.

Its horses for courses we have diesel heating gas water and fridge and the original lead acid lasted 7 years from new. I can't see how it could be cheaper in the long run for us.

 

[pau1phi11ips]

Its horses for courses we have diesel heating gas water and fridge and the original lead acid lasted 7 years from new. I can't see how it could be cheaper in the long run for us.

I'm actually using mine for Vehicle to Grid at the mo since it's plugged into the house 24/7 when it's at home. It's saving me about £350/year on the electricity bill (at the current prices) so the battery will have paid for itself in 2 years and last about 10 years in daily use. Even then it'll still work, just at 70% capacity of when it was new.

 

[Raul]

I'm actually using mine for Vehicle to Grid at the mo since it's plugged into the house 24/7 when it's at home. It's saving me about £350/year on the electricity bill (at the current prices) so the battery will have paid for itself in 2 years and last about 10 years in daily use. Even then it'll still work, just at 70% capacity of when it was new.

How do you do that? Can you elaborate please?

 

[The Wino]

I'm actually using mine for Vehicle to Grid at the mo since it's plugged into the house 24/7 when it's at home. It's saving me about £350/year on the electricity bill (at the current prices) so the battery will have paid for itself in 2 years and last about 10 years in daily use. Even then it'll still work, just at 70% capacity of when it was new.

I don't think that would be a viable amount for the grid to pay for storage and feedin if it was guaranteed to continue id buy a shedload of lithium and forget putting them in the motorhome just as an investment.

 

[pau1phi11ips]

How do you do that? Can you elaborate please?

It's using a Victron Multiplus II inverter in the van.

I'm on Octopus Go tariff, it's 5p/kWh for 4 hours at night. This is enough time to charge the battery up from 15% to 95%. Then it starts discharging back onto the grid to cover the baseload of the house. You can set whatever power you want on the Multiplus to put back on the mains, it's usually on around 180W - 220W.

It's acting as a grid-tied inverter in this case, it syncs to the mains frequency and then ups the voltage just a touch to make that the preferred source for appliances in the house.

The images below show power used by the house without the van system and when it's working.

When I finally get around to fitting the 600W of solar I have to the van the power from the MPPT will be used straight by the inverter when there's enough sun.

^{_{Subscribers  do not see these advertisements}}