AT Apache 700 - alternatives?

russ the rambler

russ the rambler

Joined
Dec 31, 2016
Posts
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Location
southampton
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46,666
MH
Hobby Toskana 750
Exp
Since 2019
hello!

I’m on the cusp of buying a brand new (2020 model) AutoTrail Apache 700. I chose this model because:

  • max. gross weight = 4250kg and I have a family of 4
  • its got a U shaped lounge and a diner in the middle
I’ve wanted a motorhome since forever. Two years ago I looked around, but my budget only stretched to second hand models that were falling apart.

Last year I got my head around buying a new model, but the budget only included a gross weight limit of 3,500kg – nothing left for luggage and toys.

This year I’ve increased the budget again to sort out these problems. But, having read a few threads on here about AutoTrail I’m having second thoughts:

  • quality of build
  • when will it actually be delivered? I thought March 2020 was too long to wait!
So the question is…

If you would not buy an Auto Trail Apache 700 (for whatever reason) then what would you buy instead please?

I'd like to consider all opinions before I choose, but I don’t want my search to run into a 4th year – I just need to bite the bullet

Thank you in advance!
 
Hobby, we’ve a 4 birth, 7.5 mtr. Great van nothing dropped off.
 
I would say no as a personal choice .
Just because its 4250kg dont tell you what the payload is its just a heavier van.

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I have the 2017 (British Built) Bailey 79-6 good 6 berth Van (plated at 4250), drop down bed for the kids (grand kids in my case) and rear lounge also with side dinette (both of which make up into double beds), not had any major issues with it myself and would certainly consider buying the same make in the future as they do seem to me to represent outstanding value for money (I can only quote my own experience here) though some say it is a bit wide for some to enjoy driving (never had a problem myself but each to their own I suppose) some on here say they would never touch a British van but equally I have heard many say they would never touch a foreign one either, it is my experience there is good and bad on both sides as they are all man made, of course if you go for the more upmarket brands such as Cartago, Dethlef or even Morrelo you are less likely to experience issues (though it is not unheard of for problems to be found with them) but your bank balance will certainly take a much harder hammering even if you self import one.

I would advise you set your budget, decide on new or previously loved then look at what there is in your range and talk to people who have actually owned them (there are many for all makes of van both on here and the many Facebook groups out there) to get a true view and be careful of advice from those who (albeit with the best of intentions) may be relying on hearsay and old views from year's gone by as there are a lot of British and Foreign van bashers out there
 
russ the rambler said:
hello!

I’m on the cusp of buying a brand new (2020 model) AutoTrail Apache 700. I chose this model because:

  • max. gross weight = 4250kg and I have a family of 4
  • its got a U shaped lounge and a diner in the middle
I’ve wanted a motorhome since forever. Two years ago I looked around, but my budget only stretched to second hand models that were falling apart.

Last year I got my head around buying a new model, but the budget only included a gross weight limit of 3,500kg – nothing left for luggage and toys.

This year I’ve increased the budget again to sort out these problems. But, having read a few threads on here about AutoTrail I’m having second thoughts:

  • quality of build
  • when will it actually be delivered? I thought March 2020 was too long to wait!
So the question is…

If you would not buy an Auto Trail Apache 700 (for whatever reason) then what would you buy instead please?

I'd like to consider all opinions before I choose, but I don’t want my search to run into a 4th year – I just need to bite the bullet

Thank you in advance!
Click to expand...
My advice would always be to take a look at a few second hand examples to see how they have worn and stood up to use. The upholstery on modern vans can look dirty very easily particularly on the piping. How are the locks and catches holding up, that kind of thing.

One van I would look at as an alternative layout at a similar price, is the Itineo SB700, made by Rapido and gets good revues. The caravan club had/have this van on their hire fleet and there seem to be a lot of 2018 models for sale, so a look at a few of these will show how they hold up to abuse. I think this is a well thought through family design and the kids love a bunk bed don't they. ;)
Be careful of Autotrail, there is no smoke without fire and there is a hell of a lot of Autotrail smoke out there. Thats from an old Autotrail lover...not any more though.

Good luck.
 
One of my favourite vans in all honesty but after my own Autotrail disaster in 2016 I just couldn't bring myself to buy another one.

However, if you do push forward with the purchase of an Apache 700 then how about buying a new stock model since the AT 700's in my area were selling new for around the £50K-mark in late 2018.

Whatever you decide make certain that you don't pay any more than £55,000, preferably £50-53K, and also ensure that you get a damp check done on any 'stock vehicle' within the first few days of ownership.

Autotrail sales are slowing down to a halt in our area so don't rush your decision as you'll have huge bargains to be had soon.

Good luck,

Andrew
 
Nice looking van, but as Blue Knight says above, after my AT experience, I would never by another one.

Beauty can be skin deep.......
If you are settled on one, choose your dealer well and demand a HUGE discount off list

All the best whatever you do

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Russ, russ the rambler

Don't forget that this is all of the mastic they use during the production phase; not much to keep the water out eh!!

(Screenshot from the Autotrail Production Video):

Screenshot_20190710-092619_Samsung Internet.jpg
 
Thank you to everyone that has posted so far – I genuinely appreciate the advice and what follows is not meant to be dismissive or a criticism.

I had a quick look at Hymer, Niesmann, Itineo and Concorde models but I can’t find a U-shaped lounge. More importantly, the new models all seem to be way out of my budget.

The Itineo SB700 gets a mention and it has an interesting layout. The problem for me is that it’s taken several years to settle on one layout, so if I go back to asking “but what layout do I actually want?” it feels like I’m going backwards. It’s possible that I would enjoy an alternative layout more than my U shape option, but ultimately its 15 square metres of space whatever you do with it.

I know my budget and I would prefer to buy a new motorhome. Auto Trail certainly have their critics and I do believe other makes have a better build quality, but if my budget stretches to a 5-year-old higher quality model or a brand-new Auto Trail, whats the better option? I don’t have a crystal ball so it’s difficult to say. At least a new model has a warranty to sort out the inevitable snags – even though it’s a disgrace there are any snags at all.

Payload: I have used the AutoTrail weight calculator . It includes the weight of 3 passengers + luggage allowance for each + the options I want to choose. It says I have about 400kg of ‘available payload’ left - surely that’s enough?

I’m tempted to buy the ex-display model at my local dealership just to avoid delays with delivery – I really wouldn’t be happy if their delivery date starts getting moved backwards by months. I want to start booking ferry tickets and campsites before it arrives.
 
russ the rambler said:
go on then Blue Knight / Cheshirecat57 - what went wrong with your autotrails please?
Click to expand...

I had 48-reported issues from small to big so the best thing for us was to get rid of it which we did several months after the initial purchase date.

That said, just go for it. If you want that type of layout and have a certain budget to play with then only you can make the final decision. If something goes wrong then there's a huge amount of experience of this forum that can guide you through the right processes etc.

The only thing that I would strongly advise is to establish a maximum price point of, say, £53K and stick by it.

If buying an in-stock vehicle which has been sitting on its tyres for a while then be sure to get a damp check done within the 30-day rejection period as that will give you a bit more peace of mind.

Other than that it's entirely your decision so best of luck and get those cheeky offers submitted.

All the best,

Andrew
 
If you havn't already you could go to Wilmoths and compare the build quality on a new 700 against a 2008 model,only done 41,000 so not even run in yet!

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For all the unhappy autotrail owners that have had faults I bet theres plenty more owners that love their vans. For me its about percentage of good v bad. Theres 2 autotrail forums on FB, perhaps have a read there.
 
rb62 said:
If you havn't already you could go to Wilmoths and compare the build quality on a new 700 against a 2008 model,only done 41,000 so not even run in yet!

New And Used Citroen, DS and Maxus Vehicles At Wilmoths In Dartford & Maidstone & Folkestone & Ashford Kent, Uckfield & Eastbourne & Hastings East Sussex, Winchester & Southampton Hampshire, Wokingham Berkshire

Wilmoths Have A Great Selection Of Quality New Citroen, DS and Maxus Cars In Dartford & Maidstone & Folkestone & Ashford Kent, Uckfield & Eastbourne & Hastings East Sussex, Winchester & Southampton Hampshire, Wokingham Berkshire. If You Need High Quality Used Vehicles And Citroen Servicing Then...
www.wilmothsmotorhomes.co.uk www.wilmothsmotorhomes.co.uk
Click to expand...


hmm...looks interesting, i might look at that at the weekend.

do you know a ball park figure to replace the mattress in the overhead bed, plus all the upholstery / foam on the seats please? just so everyone can have a bed that no one else has slept in. The driver seats could stay

and then, say for example the awning gets stuck and i cant extend it. How much would it cost to get that repaired? I'm not a DIY man at all - if i tried to repair an awning myself it would probably end with the fire brigade being called out :D
 
russ the rambler said:
hmm...looks interesting, i might look at that at the weekend.

do you know a ball park figure to replace the mattress in the overhead bed, plus all the upholstery / foam on the seats please? just so everyone can have a bed that no one else has slept in. The driver seats could stay

and then, say for example the awning gets stuck and i cant extend it. How much would it cost to get that repaired? I'm not a DIY man at all - if i tried to repair an awning myself it would probably end with the fire brigade being called out :D
Click to expand...
On the bed situation, it would be a fair expense to have all the upholstery replaced just because someone may or may not have slept on it however it would be much less than the difference in purchase price between new and used.
Have you thought about keeping the existing upholstery but having it steam cleaned?
You could spend your life speculating on what may or may not go wrong with a used van and that could, potentially, reduce the pleasure you get from it. If you're worried about the cost of potential repairs just stick the balance of you budget in a separate bank account as a repair fund.
Assuming you get a clean bill of health on a damp check (you should get one done) it would take a lot to go wrong to eat up the repair fund.
BTW the used one noted above seems to come with a 12 month dealer warranty but you would need to check this carefully for exclusions, insurance backed, etc.
Best of luck in whatever way you go. ps we've got an Auto-trail.
 
I dont know if you are aware but Dolphin motorhomes (Southampton) also seem to have a new one in stock with a discount.
I have brought used from them twice before and found them to be good to deal with.

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irnbru said:
For all the unhappy autotrail owners that have had faults I bet theres plenty more owners that love their vans. For me its about percentage of good v bad. Theres 2 autotrail forums on FB, perhaps have a read there.
Click to expand...

Its no wonder these manufacturers are prepared to turn out rubbish with this sort of attitude. Have you ever gone through the stress, time, effort, cost, lost holiday time of rejecting a new motorhome or caravan? I have!
 
Geoff C. said:
I dont know if you are aware but Dolphin motorhomes (Southampton) also seem to have a new one in stock with a discount.
I have brought used from them twice before and found them to be good to deal with.
Click to expand...
i looked at that one on sunday - thanks for the tip though
 
russ the rambler said:
hmm...looks interesting, i might look at that at the weekend.

do you know a ball park figure to replace the mattress in the overhead bed, plus all the upholstery / foam on the seats please? just so everyone can have a bed that no one else has slept in. The driver seats could stay

and then, say for example the awning gets stuck and i cant extend it. How much would it cost to get that repaired? I'm not a DIY man at all - if i tried to repair an awning myself it would probably end with the fire brigade being called out :D
Click to expand...
i assume youve never stayed in a hotel,hostel rented a caravan or chalet to be so against a second hand bed
 
I think you would be looking at a ball park figure of £2/2.5 grand to replace all the upholstery, plus carpet and a mattress. I was quoted £1800.00 for a Cheyene 635 SE about six months ago
 
steve 6644 said:
I think you would be looking at a ball park figure of £2/2.5 grand to replace all the upholstery, plus carpet and a mattress. I was quoted £1800.00 for a Cheyene 635 SE about six months ago
Click to expand...
thanks, it was only a thought. I'm looking at 2 models from 2008 at the weekend

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russ the rambler said:
go on then Blue Knight / Cheshirecat57 - what went wrong with your autotrails please?
Click to expand...
Cupboard doors falling off, drawer front same
Mudflap fell off
Upholstery separated on one setee
Shower wouldnt drain
Waste tank leak
Intermittent media fault
Window surround badly fitted
SOLD IT BACK TO DEALER(for a loss) AFTER 12 WEEKS

Was ill with it
Bought a SWIFT and that wasnt much better
Frying pan/fire springs to mind
 
There is a lovely Hobby twin axle in the for sale section on here.

I reckon it’s an absolute cracker.

Go have a look.
 
I think the main thing to bear in mind is that neither the dealer or the maker gives a flying f%%%k about you and your family once they have sold something. They have a procedure, (code named piss them about for long enough and they will give up). that means, all the stress is absorbed by you, they just follow procedure and watch your miserable experience unfold with the certain knowledge that you are stuck and there is no lasting consequence to them, they just keep going.

You are buying a lump of iron, wood and plastic, bollocked together as cheaply as possible by the cheapest means possible. You either enter this arena of buying regret, with a new purchase, a virgin vehicle, pregnant with problems yet to be discovered or...

A second hand jobbie with all of that crap, a thing of the past, and just 'what you see is what you get' decisions to make.

No way would I buy a new van again, I would find the best used example I could find, rip out all the upholstery and flooring, get it deep cleaned and replace anything looking a bit knackered.
These things aren't alive they are just metal, plastic and wood, buy it, gut it, make it your own, all nice hygienically new bits and accept that the base vehicle may develop a few probs that are easily solvable. Unlike a stroke after your expectations have been poleaxed by a saga of frustration and disappointment.

I am about to take my own advice by the way...
 
Assume you have the license for a 4250kg van as not said..
I love the 700 layout, ideal with a family. My 2012 model had 730kg of payload so ample carrying capacity. Bought new in 2012 and part exchanged only 2 months ago... In 7 years I had 6 where something had to be done with a warranty claim and all related to damp / ingress issues.. Very luckily it had the 10 year warranty and all work covered BUT so annoying.
I was very active on Autotrail groups and will state that some vans have issues, some do not and some people just dont own up to it... Some of the problems still coming up are still the same as years ago.

Other than the water related issues the van went like a dream doing 35k, most of that in first 2 years with 2 Morocco trips and several to Spain. Apart from a small problem with a sensor the Fiat side never let me down and everything in the Habitation worked as it should. Many great trips and holidays spent.

Would I buy another... NO..
Lost faith in the brand after having 4 in total, 2x 700'S 1 x Scout and 1 x Trigano van..
Older models certainly did seem better in build quality but that could be said same for most other brands,

The rear U lounge and dinette is a very British layout, really from the Caravans I guess and so hard to find in Continetal vans.

Consider a used van first rather than new and the potential to loose a lot of cash. BUT if you go for an Autotrail check the habitation checks are all in order and the 10 year warranty is still active. Dont trust on a 1 year dealer warranty...

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