Are all bench seats uncomfortable? Are there any PVCs without one?

[Grianan]

You can tell I’m bored … 5 days in isolation so far …

We love our Globecar Campscout but the bench seat is upright and cramped. It also takes up quite a bit of space that could be used better.

When we were looking at 2 berths the only ones we could find had a full height unit where the Campscout table is … sitting looking at a wall didn’t appeal either.

Has anyone found anything different … sacrificing the bench seat for more comfortable lounging and a smaller table perhaps?

EDIT - we’d like to stick with the fixed rear bed layout with underbed storage accessible from rear doors.

 

[Riverbankannie]

The IH rear lounge has just a drop down table in the sliding doorway for one to eat with a view, or a table between beds/loungers at the rear. We prioritised lounging comfort as we knew we wouldn’t want the upright bench seat after having a hire vehicle. The full wrap around of the IH lounge is really comfortable and we always sleep well when made up as beds.

 

[The Dudess]

We decided we wanted more lounge space and were happy to do without the dinette area. The Auto-Sleeper Warwick XL is perfect for us and has either a small table which fits into a hole in the floor by the rear doors but is also supplied with a larger table which is stored over the cab.

 

[Mikeco]

I used a mini bus seat in mine, very comfortable but only use it to put my feet up or for occasional passenger’s.
No doubt the upright ones turn into a bed and everyone that I’ve seen looks uncomfortable.

 

[pampam]

That warwick looks lovely
and ih have a luxury spec
lovely

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[Grianan]

The Warwick does look nice … should have specified still looking for a fixed bed in the rear though. I’ll see if I can amend.

 

[Riverbankannie]

The Warwick does look nice … should have specified still looking for a fixed bed in the rear though. I’ll see if I can amend.

I would think that there could be a market for the arrangement you are looking for. Maybe replacing the cab seats with much more comfortable ones and having a small round table or one of those cranked arm swinging ones sort of in the doorway between the reversed front seats. Our old Autosleeper had one of those tables and then a single seat in the rear of the doorway, it was quite comfortable for eating.

 

[TheMachMan]

Some bench seats are better sculpted than others. Ours are ok.

 

[Stonemags76]

Our Warwick Duo bench seats can be used as fixed single beds, or 2 minutes to make a large bed. I like to put my feet up when lounging on a wet day, so wanted a rear lounge.

 

[68c]

The problem is the designer tries to use the bench seat as both a seat and a bed. A bed of course needs to be flat but a flat seat with vertical backrest and horizontal seat squab is uncomfortable adding the knee roll just makes the bed worse. I like the idea on the 1990s Swift Sundance seats, the backrest and squab are hinged with the backrest angled and the squab lifted up at the front to give a good seat. When converting to the bed the squab is pulled forward the backrest slides down on runners until level the squab drops down a little lower than before giving a flat bed.

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[Riverbankannie]

Our Warwick Duo bench seats can be used as fixed single beds, or 2 minutes to make a large bed. I like to put my feet up when lounging on a wet day, so wanted a rear lounge.

I think Grianan is referring to the bench seat that makes up the dinette seating at the front being uncomfortable.

 

[Mark and Mindy]

Our first PVC had a small bench seat which pulled across the van at night and incorporated the single seat near the end of the sliding door opening into a bed, other than storage issues we found that it filled neither duty very satisfactorily as it made a hard bed but not enough support as a seat in the daytime.

As it pulled across it was the same as in 68c 's figure above as the base of the seat pulled across to fill the middle part of the bed and the back was hinged to form the top third of the bed with the opposite single seat pulling across the door opening and the remaining square filled by a separate cushion.

 

[Phileas Fogg]

The Warwick xl is what I would choose as a pvc if downsizing.
We had memory foam toppers custom made for our seats and they are super comfy.

 

[beachwomble]

The only one I know of is the new Bürstner Eliseo C543 but will be shorter than your Campscout. There are more but none are sold in the UK as far as I'm aware.

 

[Devongirl]

We seriously looked at the Warwick XL before we bought our Campscout. Lovely vans but we preferred the Campscout because of the fixed bed with all the storage space underneath. I also recall that the driver seat of the Warwick didn’t swivel round so the only option for dining together was the bed/lounge area at the back. Also the floor space was very limited so I couldn't see when my dogs’ basket would go; with the Campscout they tuck under the dinette table. Also recall the windows didn’t open properly in the Warwick. The shower in the Warwick was brilliant though. With the Campscout, I also love the fact we can take passengers if necessary. Agree that the upright dinette in the Campscout isn’t the most comfy. Guess there is a compromise with any van layout.

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[Mike Docker]

The Dreamer D68 and the similar Rapido V68 offer Dedicated rear raised single beds with Bultex mattresses in a length of 6.36m. The D62 and similar Rapido V62 offer the same but only 5.99m and with a transverse rear double. Both feature dedicated storage accessed from the rear doors.

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[SpeedyDux]

You can tell I’m bored … 5 days in isolation so far …

We love our Globecar Campscout but the bench seat is upright and cramped. It also takes up quite a bit of space that could be used better.

When we were looking at 2 berths the only ones we could find had a full height unit where the Campscout table is … sitting looking at a wall didn’t appeal either.

Has anyone found anything different … sacrificing the bench seat for more comfortable lounging and a smaller table perhaps?

EDIT - we’d like to stick with the fixed rear bed layout with underbed storage accessible from rear doors.

The bench seat in ours is not too upright and in fact quite comfortable for lounging. Our problem is lack of legroom and a somewhat narrow table. All part of the compromise of space allocation in a 5.4m PVC. We didn't want a washroom extending across to the kitchen / fridge unit and having double tambour doors blocking access. (Don't Globecars use that type of washroom?) Hence some dinette room was sacrificed by Rapido. But we can live with that, just. The most uncomfortable and upright bench seat I came across was in the Adria Twin 540 so crossed that off our shortlist. That was in 2016 when we were looking to buy. Maybe since then Adria has improved their bench seat; I wouldn't know. Easily the best bench seat was in the Westfalia but that was rather expensive.

It is frustrating that we can't go to the NEC and see all the latest models in one place. And sit in them, test the beds etc. for comfort!

 

[Mark and Mindy]

We hardly ever sat in the bench seats of our Ayers Rock as Harry travels there harnessed and in a dog bed and he sleeps there at night on a blanket and so by his reckoning its his seat.

We have an Adrian Twin Supreme on order and are expecting things to be the same - Poppy in her bed under the table and Harry on the dinette seat, he's a small dog when curled up but when stretched out fully takes up the whole dinette.

For lounging I sit on the bed with my back up against the bathroom wall to read or knit or crochet and Mark sits up front and watches a movie.

I guess its all about how you use your van and what you need from it, and where the compromises can be made. The new van is 6.4m and the last one was 5.4m, that extra 1m will give us a big longitudinal bed, swing wall washroom and large fridge but the dinette seat/table combination will be the same with the same lack of space!

 

[Don Campbell]

You can tell I’m bored … 5 days in isolation so far …

We love our Globecar Campscout but the bench seat is upright and cramped. It also takes up quite a bit of space that could be used better.

When we were looking at 2 berths the only ones we could find had a full height unit where the Campscout table is … sitting looking at a wall didn’t appeal either.

Has anyone found anything different … sacrificing the bench seat for more comfortable lounging and a smaller table perhaps?

EDIT - we’d like to stick with the fixed rear bed layout with underbed storage accessible from rear doors.

Hi Grianan,
Don't know which Campscout yiou have - before or after they moved the heater from under the bed to under the saloon seat. If the heater is under the bed I think it would be possible to DIY a more comfortable arrangement with a longitudinal seat but you would either lose the table completely or have to put in something much smaller that would fit in the floor or on the the washroom wall. We have the heater under the seat so it would be very difficult to do, but when we had to have a complete strip down of the heater and replacemrnt of the loom under warranty the guy that did it said he was sooo glad they had moved it.

 

[nicholsong]

This post is not to knock people who want a PVC, of any description.

My comment is only that threads like these highlight the greater compromise decisions that PVC buyers have to make than the compromises that any MHomer has to make.

I am just giving a view on compromises from the perspective of a non-PVC owner.

A lot of the justifications for PVCs seem to be size for parking, but some PVCs are the same length as some 'A' Class, so it is just the width - what 20-30cm?

Then the compromises, as listed above start to kick in.

As for cost? yes true if buying new PVCs can win, but s/h there is little difference

I have read of people who have downsized from 'A' Class to PVC, but I think it is one 'jump off a cliff' that I could not make, because I am prepared to make some compromises but some not, e.g. fixed bed and garage, having both not possible in a PVC.

I will probably get some adverse comments for my views but that is OK - I can either counter them or ignore them.

Geoff

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[mitzimad]

I assume your refering to the double seat that forms the dinette ? youll find they are all upright due to the fact they are belted seats with the steel frame to restrain passengers from joining you in the front in the event of a crash.If you dont need the 4 belts and are happy with two it could be removed and a different comfortable seat built in its place ,all though to get comfort you may need a smaller table

 

[Grianan]

Hi Grianan,
Don't know which Campscout yiou have - before or after they moved the heater from under the bed to under the saloon seat. If the heater is under the bed I think it would be possible to DIY a more comfortable arrangement with a longitudinal seat but you would either lose the table completely or have to put in something much smaller that would fit in the floor or on the the washroom wall. We have the heater under the seat so it would be very difficult to do, but when we had to have a complete strip down of the heater and replacemrnt of the loom under warranty the guy that did it said he was sooo glad they had moved it.

Ours is under the dinette bench. It’s still almost impossible to access. We have to have a new element in our Truma () so glad it’s accessible.

 

[Grianan]

The bench seat in ours is not too upright and in fact quite comfortable for lounging. Our problem is lack of legroom and a somewhat narrow table. All part of the compromise of space allocation in a 5.4m PVC. We didn't want a washroom extending across to the kitchen / fridge unit and having double tambour doors blocking access. (Don't Globecars use that type of washroom?) Hence some dinette room was sacrificed by Rapido. But we can live with that, just. The most uncomfortable and upright bench seat I came across was in the Adria Twin 540 so crossed that off our shortlist. That was in 2016 when we were looking to buy. Maybe since then Adria has improved their bench seat; I wouldn't know. Easily the best bench seat was in the Westfalia but that was rather expensive.

It is frustrating that we can't go to the NEC and see all the latest models in one place. And sit in them, test the beds etc. for comfort!

Yes, I recall Westfalia gave patented their less upright seats. But the cost of the Columbus (the Amundsen has upright seats like the majority of manufacturers) is eye watering.

 

[Grianan]

This post is not to knock people who want a PVC, of any description.

My comment is only that threads like these highlight the greater compromise decisions that PVC buyers have to make than the compromises that any MHomer has to make.

I am just giving a view on compromises from the perspective of a non-PVC owner.

A lot of the justifications for PVCs seem to be size for parking, but some PVCs are the same length as some 'A' Class, so it is just the width - what 20-30cm?

Then the compromises, as listed above start to kick in.

As for cost? yes true if buying new PVCs can win, but s/h there is little difference

I have read of people who have downsized from 'A' Class to PVC, but I think it is one 'jump off a cliff' that I could not make, because I am prepared to make some compromises but some not, e.g. fixed bed and garage, having both not possible in a PVC.

I will probably get some adverse comments for my views but that is OK - I can either counter them or ignore them.

Geoff

Each to his own Geoff.

I like my PVC but would be happier without the dinette and with a smaller table. I find manufacturers get stuck in a model, and there is little variation/innovation.

 

[Minxy]

I've been musing this over for a while.

How about removing the existing dinette backrest and putting in a couple of nice big cushions instead that you can 'sink' into when sitting there rather than the upright original, something like this:

Palm Forest Velvet Extra-large Cushion. Exotic Birds and Jungle Animals on a Natural White. Backed With a Plain Teal Soft Velvet. 23x23 XL - Etsy UK

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Or even this so you have 'arm rests' as you would with a chair:

Traditional Cushions & Cushion Covers - Chums

Find beautiful cushions & cushion covers Chums. With classic floral patterns & luxury booster cushions for sale, we've got just what you're looking for.

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As for the table, there's nothing to stop you reducing the depth of it or removing it completely and putting in one on a swivel arm with a removable top (or two of different sizes) so you can put it in/take it off as required and move the 'arm' out of the way, eg:

Westfalia Oxford/ Dusseldorf swing table leg C9793 | eBay

This is the L shaped leg only in the photo, no brackets or fastening handles or fittings with this leg. Identical to the original Westfalia table leg.

www.ebay.co.uk

In place of the existing table by utilising the existing fittings you could put a small 'shelf' instead so you still have somewhere to put your bits and bobs with the table removed, you'd just need to put a support for the underside of it, eg:

Amazon product ASIN B08XVTVS9L

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[Minxy]

The is what I did in a previous MH, I removed the side mounted table and put a folding shelf on the side and removable table top on a swing arm (I cut the table top down a bit more afterwards so it was more suitable), it worked a treat.

 

[Minxy]

This post is not to knock people who want a PVC, of any description.

My comment is only that threads like these highlight the greater compromise decisions that PVC buyers have to make than the compromises that any MHomer has to make.

I am just giving a view on compromises from the perspective of a non-PVC owner.

A lot of the justifications for PVCs seem to be size for parking, but some PVCs are the same length as some 'A' Class, so it is just the width - what 20-30cm?

Then the compromises, as listed above start to kick in.

As for cost? yes true if buying new PVCs can win, but s/h there is little difference

I have read of people who have downsized from 'A' Class to PVC, but I think it is one 'jump off a cliff' that I could not make, because I am prepared to make some compromises but some not, e.g. fixed bed and garage, having both not possible in a PVC.

I will probably get some adverse comments for my views but that is OK - I can either counter them or ignore them.

Geoff

Nothing wrong with your views Geoff, pretty much spot on I'd say having had 'fat' MHs (2.3m) and PVCs (2.05m), it is a compromise. We were never happy with 'chubby' MHs and that's why we went for our first PVC which was the same length, as the narrowness was a real positive for us - much easier to drive in busy traffic and when overtaking etc on narrower roads, fitting into the width of parking bays (with bum hanging over). This was why a good few years ago when we first saw a Carthago Compactline model (2.12m) which seemed combine the benefit of a coachbuilt (storage/garage, insulation etc) with the advantages of a PVC's much narrower width we were immediately smitten, at the time we couldn't afford one but it never left out thoughts and we hoped to be able to get on in the distant future. However 2 years ago when we went to a MH show to just to have a nice relaxing weekend with NO intention whatsoever of buying, when we saw one for a price that was a no brainer and we could afford (with a bit of 'pauper' meals for a while) we got it. Not regretted it at all ... PVC 6.36m x 2.05 m, Compactline 6.41m x 2.12m ... despite the very small increase in size in reality it feels much more spacious and is just as practical for driving/parking etc as the PVC with the bonus that with a shorter wheelbase it's actually even more manoeuvrable than a PVC.

 

[nicholsong]

Each to his own Geoff.

I like my PVC but would be happier without the dinette and with a smaller table. I find manufacturers get stuck in a model, and there is little variation/innovation.

Those ae the sort of extra compromises that seem to come with PVCs, but your choice.

 

[Minxy]

The only PVC I can think of that had a transverse rear bed and L-shaped dinette is the Globecar Familyscout we had but it wasn't what I would call overly comfortable however it was possible to slob out on the side sofa bit with your feet up ... that was only if the dogs let me though as they loved to lay there!

 

[Skez]

This post is not to knock people who want a PVC, of any description.

My comment is only that threads like these highlight the greater compromise decisions that PVC buyers have to make than the compromises that any MHomer has to make.

I am just giving a view on compromises from the perspective of a non-PVC owner.

A lot of the justifications for PVCs seem to be size for parking, but some PVCs are the same length as some 'A' Class, so it is just the width - what 20-30cm?

Then the compromises, as listed above start to kick in.

As for cost? yes true if buying new PVCs can win, but s/h there is little difference

I have read of people who have downsized from 'A' Class to PVC, but I think it is one 'jump off a cliff' that I could not make, because I am prepared to make some compromises but some not, e.g. fixed bed and garage, having both not possible in a PVC.

I will probably get some adverse comments for my views but that is OK - I can either counter them or ignore them.

A Class Frankia to a PVC. No going back and no way would I want to. There are compromises of course (storage - we make our bed up every night) but we love our Murvi PVC and the massive front lounge and unobstructed side door.

Doesn't matter how many thread discuss the plusses and minuses of each type of van - only you can work our what works for you!! Some of the reasons can be strangely emotional - we feel more campervan than motorhome - ridiculous hey??

And going to the original post, we have a long settee (bench seat effectively) looking straight out of our whoosh bang, and its bloody comfortable.

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