Anyone gone all electric? (2 Viewers)

[Clive Mott]

It all depends!
If you go from one site to another all with mains hookup then YES.
But
If you do a few days at a time. even a Show weekend then this needs thinking through.
Compressor fridges are about twice as efficient as the 3 way gas absorbtion jobs but will take between 3A and 5A when running. say they run half the time as the thermostat opens and closes. That could be as much as 60AH per 24 hours. Thats a 100Ah lead acid battery pretty well stuffed already. Top opening fridges lose far less heat each time the door is opened.
Diesel heating. My mates have tried a few and report Eberspatcher to be the best, but us outside in adjacent vans always know each time they fire up. And the amps they take from 12v especially during the startup sequence is not insignifant. You can get diesel cooking hobs as well.
Solar panels and a good MPPT regulator mounted away from soft combustable materials with bags of space around it is pivotal to survive in the summer. Batteries, yes LiFeP04 jobs for sure to get sufficient storage without trashing payload.
Winter for that skiing holiday without hookup? You must be nuts!! However the Battery to Battery chargers are one way to make this work, say 400Ah of lithium and a 100A B2B.
Whats wrong with Gas?
One 6kg Propane bottle contains the same energy as 63 110Ah batteries if you discharge them down to zero%.

Yes, all electric can be done, but at what cost?
NOTE The latest Hymer MLT Merc based jobs now have a compressor fridge and lithium options.

Lots to ponder.

Clive

 

[akadingbat]

I don’t have any gas in my van other than a wee emergency ring that uses the disposable cans. My main battery system is the Clayton Power one which has everything in the one unit so no need for separate inverters etc. It charges from battery, solar or mains. I also have a couple of Jackery 500s. I used to have a Bluetti ACP2000 but had problems with that and poor customer service when it died so vowed only ever to get smaller units in future. 200w solar but will increase that.
I have diesel heater. A Dometic CFX dual zone fridge freezer. All lights are 12v leds and I also have a selection of small portable leds with usbs that I can run off powerbanks and they last for ages. I have a small Tassimo and a Handymanxtra hot water system. Remoska for cooking.

LPS II 3000 - 2 kWh

www.claytonpower.com

 

[TheAleMan]

Just watched the video. It is described as 'Gas Free' - now that is a better explanation. I still don't like the idea of eclectic being created by burning diesel. Personally if it was fully battery/solar powered it would be a better solution but probably not doable. If I was parked up near one and the owner started his engine to be able to cook or use the washing machine I'd find that annoying. Interesting tech and design though. As always Van conversions a bit to cramped for me.

I did mention in one of my posts that it was no different to having a stand alone genny, just less faff and it’s inboard. It’s just a means for topping up the batts when needed. Looking forward to the van a lot, space and storage ain’t going to be an issue and much better for off grid and wilding than our current van.

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

It is. Just need the engine running to start the inboard generator. What are you all not getting The whole system uses two alternators.

But that's not the way you described this set up at the onset.

 

[MisterB]

The biggest issue is probably water heating for showers and dishes. A sink of hot water will cost you about 10Ah in battery.

We use an electric kettle via inverter all the time and it uses around 6Ah max, but that gives us enough hot water for drinks AND we decant the rest into a flask to use for either washing up later or our next drinks.
We also have our hot water heater connected via our Renogy 3000w inverter with pass through. So we can heat water using it on or off EHU. Haven't checked how many Ah it takes though to heat enough water for a shower, though I suspect it's getting on for 10Ah as you suggest.

 

[TheAleMan]

But that's not the way you described this set up at the onset.

Blimey you still at it. It really is not hard to work out. It will probably never be used because we will always be travelling but, starting the engine to produce electricity is an option if really needed. There is not some new miracle way to produce leccy. It’s an onboard 240v genny It’s NO different really from a standalone unit that’s used outside the van to produce exactly the same stuff..electric. I’m out of here now..I’ve tried

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[Captain Yoghurtpot]

Blimey you still at it. It really is not hard to work out. It will probably never be used because we will always be travelling but, starting the engine to produce electricity is an option if really needed. There is not some new miracle way to produce leccy. It’s an onboard 240v genny It’s NO different really from a standalone unit that’s used outside the van to produce exactly the same stuff..electric. I’m out of here now..I’ve tried

No need to take an attitude, my friend.
I just like to fully understand things and am a pedant to things being described accurately and correctly.
I can , hopefully, see what you are trying to achieve in your quest for total self sufficiency, and I have also read the rest of the thread, which despite being quite technical, I have found informative as to WHAT could POSSIBLY be achieved with differing power sources.
I have caravanned for many years and now moved to motorhoming for the past 5 years.
Technology, designs and systems in the last 10 years has moved on massively, and trying to keep up is proving interesting if not challenging.
My motorhome is at the basic of basic levels, uses gas, lead acid battery and mainly hook-up and no way can I afford some of today's new systems , or a new van.
But that does not make me any the less interested in what's happening today, and what might, one day, be something I will need to know about when we upgrade our current van.
Thanks.

 

[TheAleMan]

No need to take an attitude, my friend.
I just like to fully understand things and am a pedant to things being described accurately and correctly.
I can , hopefully, see what you are trying to achieve in your quest for total self sufficiency, and I have also read the rest of the thread, which despite being quite technical, I have found informative as to WHAT could POSSIBLY be achieved with differing power sources.
I have caravanned for many years and now moved to motorhoming for the past 5 years.
Technology, designs and systems in the last 10 years has moved on massively, and trying to keep up is proving interesting if not challenging.
My motorhome is at the basic of basic levels, uses gas, lead acid battery and mainly hook-up and no way can I afford some of today's new systems , or a new van.
But that does not make me any the less interested in what's happening today, and what might, one day, be something I will need to know about when we upgrade our current van.
Thanks.

Well phone them up then and make an inquiry yourself. I don’t confess to know the system inside out, but I will know more on Tuesday when I meet up with the team and we will be discussing this at some length which I’ve already stated.

Not really an attitude, more of boredom really of repeating myself continually. Until I know more I’m done here.

 

[VXman]

Blimey you still at it. It really is not hard to work out. It will probably never be used because we will always be travelling but, starting the engine to produce electricity is an option if really needed. There is not some new miracle way to produce leccy. It’s an onboard 240v genny It’s NO different really from a standalone unit that’s used outside the van to produce exactly the same stuff..electric. I’m out of here now..I’ve tried

The way you explained it originally was like some fantastic new idea. Essentially it is just a generator like the one that that annoying guy next to me used every morning when I was camping off grid in France back in June. This is quite old tech. People having been starting their engines to produce electric for years (yes I know this van will have an additional alternator to produce more power and at 24 volts but it's basically the same) Solar panels/battery/inverter and gas for high energy jobs are a better option in my opinion.

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[autorouter]

Haven't checked how many Ah it takes though to heat enough water for a shower, though I suspect it's getting on for 10Ah as you suggest.

It will take about 10Ah to heat 10 litres of water up by 10 degrees C. To heat more water by more degrees, it takes proportionately more. I would suggest that 10 litres heated by 20 degrees is a minimum for a shower, if the water starts off at 20 degrees, so that's 20Ah required.

 

[tonyidle]

I know I'm late to this discussion but having read through it I'm at a loss to understand the reluctance to use LPG for as many appliances as possible. After Diesel its the most compact and lightweight energy source available for motorhome. Even where space is at a premium a tank can be tucked away underneath.

 

[Otter Spotter]

I know I'm late to this discussion but having read through it I'm at a loss to understand the reluctance to use LPG for as many appliances as possible. After Diesel its the most compact and lightweight energy source available for motorhome. Even where space is at a premium a tank can be tucked away underneath.

My take on this ( I have no gas) is that the less things that can cause moisture in the van (especially in winter) the less weight I need to carry, the less reliance on have to search for a supplier of gas/LPG etc, the better, just because an LPG tank is hidden under a van doesn’t mean that your payload capacity hasn’t reduced.
Mine is a 6m PVC. with a 110ah lithium, 160w solar panel, 3000w pure sine wave invertor, 12v Compressor fridge, Wallas Diesel hob/heater, 240v Water heater powered either on EHU or invertor, and finally a Bosch 800w Microwave. In winter if on EHU I will use an electric ceramic fan heater, and Microwave, if off grid the Wallas heats and we can cook on it or Microwave. I don’t worry about the battery depletion as we tend to travel every 2 or 3 days so alternator recharges the battery. I will point out that I do use the van as my daily vehicle when not on Jollies so battery is always being topped up.

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[tonyidle]

My take on this ( I have no gas) is that the less things that can cause moisture in the van (especially in winter) the less weight I need to carry, the less reliance on have to search for a supplier of gas/LPG etc, the better, just because an LPG tank is hidden under a van doesn’t mean that your payload capacity hasn’t reduced.
Mine is a 6m PVC. with a 110ah lithium, 160w solar panel, 3000w pure sine wave invertor, 12v Compressor fridge, Wallas Diesel hob/heater, 240v Water heater powered either on EHU or invertor, and finally a Bosch 800w Microwave. In winter if on EHU I will use an electric ceramic fan heater, and Microwave, if off grid the Wallas heats and we can cook on it or Microwave. I don’t worry about the battery depletion as we tend to travel every 2 or 3 days so alternator recharges the battery. I will point out that I do use the van as my daily vehicle when not on Jollies so battery is always being topped up.

Agree about moisture - but only from open gas flames (cooking etc). And I agree about payload but only if that's an issue. Otherwise LPG beats other sources of energy hands down.

 

[VXman]

Agree about moisture - but only from open gas flames (cooking etc). And I agree about payload but only if that's an issue. Otherwise LPG beats other sources of energy hands down.

But think of the planet!

 

[MisterB]

I know I'm late to this discussion but having read through it I'm at a loss to understand the reluctance to use LPG for as many appliances as possible. After Diesel its the most compact and lightweight energy source available for motorhome. Even where space is at a premium a tank can be tucked away underneath.

i am happy to use electricity to run as much as i can when off EHU and also use it when on EHU !

of course its a large outlay initially to ensure enough power and the means to supply that power, but then the cost of cooking, heating etc is related to how much electricity you can for free from the sun or driving!

we've just had a 20 day jaunt around Europe and hardly used any gas (it was only the fridge using it). it meant i wasnt too concerned about having to top up gas or think about it.

for us though the simplicity of flicking a switch for the kettle, pressing a button for the microwave or induction hob/gearge foreman/pizza oven is so much simpler and easier than gas, so i suppose it comes down to convenience.

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[scotjimland]

Consider that 1kg of propane can give around 13.6 kWh of energy,

therefore a 6kg bottle has 81.8 kWh !

Lithium-Ion Battery 12V – 100Ah – 1.28kWh

almost 64 battery charges = ONE 6kg bottle of Propane

which makes LPG a 'no brainer' for cooking, hot water and heating .. diesel being another good option for heating.

 

[Mzracer]

or driving

It is not free when driving, there are no free rides.

 

[MisterB]

It is not free when driving, there are no free rides.

i suppose that depends on how deep you want to go, after all increased mileage usually means the value of the vehicle declines, driving will wear out the tyres etc etc but i did buy a motorhome not a static caravan, so for me the power 'obtained' from driving is a bonus !

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[scotjimland]

so for me the power 'obtained' from driving is a bonus !

but not free ..

Just for a rough idea, a typical alternator output is 100 to 200 amperes, or 1200 to 2400 watts. That's 1.6 to 3.2 horsepower. ... that is using diesel ..

 

[MisterB]

but not free ..

Just for a rough idea, a typical alternator output is 100 to 200 amperes, or 1200 to 2400 watts. That's 1.6 to 3.2 horsepower. ... that is using diesel ..

i understand your point ...... howabout if i say, 'but for me its a free bonus that i pay for' - will that match your criteria

and moving on ......

 

[tonyidle]

i am happy to use electricity to run as much as i can when off EHU and also use it when on EHU !

of course its a large outlay initially to ensure enough power and the means to supply that power, but then the cost of cooking, heating etc is related to how much electricity you can for free from the sun or driving!

we've just had a 20 day jaunt around Europe and hardly used any gas (it was only the fridge using it). it meant i wasnt too concerned about having to top up gas or think about it.

for us though the simplicity of flicking a switch for the kettle, pressing a button for the microwave or induction hob/gearge foreman/pizza oven is so much simpler and easier than gas, so i suppose it comes down to convenience.

I agree with most of that. I too have as much stuff as I can to suck power out of the sky (620W solar & 210W LiFeP04) but still 2x11Kg Gaslow. We have a microwave & air fryer. But for cooking I can't see that gas is an inconvenience compared with electric for hobs. And at each end of the year heating in particular requires gas off grid.

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[Otter Spotter]

Agree about moisture - but only from open gas flames (cooking etc). And I agree about payload but only if that's an issue. Otherwise LPG beats other sources of energy hands down.

Forgot to list our Remoska that is used for cooking as well, usually on EHU, not actually tried it via the Invertor. Payload usually is an issue on a PVC, though mine is fine.

 

[Tony50]

More and more people are doing it, they tend to use deisel for heat and water.

at least 400-600 ah, as much solar as you can fit plus decent b2bs

I have 400ah 600 solar and if wasnt in the uk could go all leccy all year full time no problem

I miss my diesel heating went to Spain in winter for 2 months did not use 2 gas bottles up for cooking

 

[MisterB]

I agree with most of that. I too have as much stuff as I can to suck power out of the sky (620W solar & 210W LiFeP04) but still 2x11Kg Gaslow. We have a microwave & air fryer. But for cooking I can't see that gas is an inconvenience compared with electric for hobs. And at each end of the year heating in particular requires gas off grid.

We still have our Gaslow aswell and it's unlikely we will ever get to the stage where we have no gas fuelled appliances on any motorhome we own. It's definitely convenient but if we can restrict its use them we are doing!

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