Adapting a Suzuki Alto to take an A frame (1 Viewer)

[PeteH]

Couple of mods if I was building them again Pete.
Instead of using 30x3mm box for the arms I would use 30x2mm then 25mm box would fit inside so I could make them in two pieces, next a shouldered bolt in the 2nd hole to allow the arms to swing in when not in use. Thinking about it I may do that anyway.

The Blue Ox. Was in sections, one of the best features was you could actually hitch "off centre" and when you straightened up it locked up rigid.

 

[olley]

I have seen vids of that but can't work out how it was done. Best I can think of is a spring loaded plunger on the outside.

 

[PeteH]

I have seen vids of that but can't work out how it was done. Best I can think of is a spring loaded plunger on the outside.

Never went too deeply into it, but that was the principle involved you re-set by lifting two "latches" on the frame which allowed it to "fold".

<Broken link removed>

Similar to mine.

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[pelican]

Generically, the hitch end of the inner is secured to a lever on the sliding hitch.
The outer in a captive bracket on the frame.
Car end, the inner has a clevis fork which fits over the brake pedal and is secured with a pin through a drilled hole in the pedal.
The outer is secured where it passes through a drilled hole on the bulkhead to line up with the pedal.
When you brake the momentum of the car causes the hitch to slide forwards and the lever pulls the inner cable.
The inner cable then pulls on the brake pedal slowing the car. .

Thank you for reply but my car brakes are power assisted via a vacuum so I had to have a vacuum pump fitted to car.

 

[olley]

All modern cars have vacuum power brakes, very few people fit vacuum pumps for A frame use.

 

[TonyEmm]

My Mrs says your right
Didnt even know she could weld

She doesn’t need to be able to! I’m 77 but my one armed, half-blind granny can have a go if she likes, no skill required! No controls, no required inspections, producing a-frames is a free-for-all….

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[Feltwell]

As will become blindingly obvious, I've never looked at A frames in any detail - but - I'd presumed they were linked somehow to the steering, so the front axle would steer somewhat akin to a swivel axle farm trailer. But from what you've shown here they are not at all, so I presume you just ensure the steering is not locked and rely on the self-centering of the cars steering to pull it in a straight line?

That must put some strain on the toad when going round tight corners, must scrub the tyres a bit as well, as you're working against the power steering.

 

[TonyEmm]

As will become blindingly obvious, I've never looked at A frames in any detail - but - I'd presumed they were linked somehow to the steering, so the front axle would steer somewhat akin to a swivel axle farm trailer. But from what you've shown here they are not at all, so I presume you just ensure the steering is not locked and rely on the self-centering of the cars steering to pull it in a straight line?

That must put some strain on the toad when going round tight corners, must scrub the tyres a bit as well, as you're working against the power steering.

A-frames used for leisure use are, as you say, not linked to the steering at all. They rely on the vehicles built in caster, camber, toe in, king pin alignment and so on for their ‘trailability’.
The alternatives you referred to are turntable steering and Ackerman steering. Both rely on input from the towing drawbar. (I built both [numerous years ago] when I was a trailer manufacturer dabbling in car dollies).
A trailer with a wheel in corner [ie a TOAD] (where it’s not Ackerman or turntable steered) will definitely impart stresses on the front of the ‘trailer’.
In general though, it’s not TOO much of an issue in a forward direction but imparts huge stresses when reversing. The ability to reverse an a-framed towed car without excessive damage can rely on damping that is applied to the steering arms.
I did numerous tests/trials on car dollies with all sorts of combinations (wheels under/wheels outside, fixed ‘T’ Frame/Ackerman/turntable) and truthfully none were 100% successful. Some of my tests showed tyres almost being ripped off the rims.

The physics involved are not simple yet legally, anyone can convert a car to a ’trailer’! In my view, it’s unacceptable.
It is AFAIK, the only automotive sector that is totally unregulated…. That needs to change, for the benefit of users in particular.

In answer to your post, it’s absolutely essential that the steering lock is disabled! Failure to do so will result in the experiences I witnessed.

 

[olley]

Steering lock off, neutral selected, handbrake off and your good to go.
Takes me 5mins or less to connect or remove.

Changed the attachment points on the car, from solid pins to rose joints this year.

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[Feltwell]

A-frames used for leisure use are, as you say, not linked to the steering at all. They rely on the vehicles built in caster, camber, toe in, king pin alignment and so on for their ‘trailability’.
The alternatives you referred to are turntable steering and Ackerman steering. Both rely on input from the towing drawbar. (I built both [numerous years ago] when I was a trailer manufacturer dabbling in car dollies).
A trailer with a wheel in corner [ie a TOAD] (where it’s not Ackerman or turntable steered) will definitely impart stresses on the front of the ‘trailer’.
In general though, it’s not TOO much of an issue in a forward direction but imparts huge stresses when reversing. The ability to reverse an a-framed towed car without excessive damage can rely on damping that is applied to the steering arms.
I did numerous tests/trials on car dollies with all sorts of combinations (wheels under/wheels outside, fixed ‘T’ Frame/Ackerman/turntable) and truthfully none were 100% successful. Some of my tests showed tyres almost being ripped off the rims.

The physics involved are not simple yet legally, anyone can convert a car to a ’trailer’! In my view, it’s unacceptable.
It is AFAIK, the only automotive sector that is totally unregulated…. That needs to change, for the benefit of users in particular.

In answer to your post, it’s absolutely essential that the steering lock is disabled! Failure to do so will result in the experiences I witnessed.

Interesting, thanks.

I've got a 7-type kit car that at some point in the future would be nice to take away with us down to southern europe. It weighs next to nothing, but even so with a lightweight tubular space frame I wouldn't fancy adding mounts to attach an A frame, just not designed for those forces.

Not wanting to restart an old debate but I know A frame legality is also very questionable in some European countries - so for both reasons it's a trailer job I think, no arguments then and no danger to the car.

 

[Mark Winder]

Olley please could you help with wiring on alto

 

[olley]

Olley please could you help with wiring on alto

I went right to the boot and connected direct to wiring loom at the bulb housings. There's no canbus on the alto.

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[Mark Winder]

Steering lock off, neutral selected, handbrake off and your good to go.
Takes me 5mins or less to connect or remove.

Changed the attachment points on the car, from solid pins to rose joints this year.

Hi Olley please could you advise where you broke into the loom

 

[Mark Winder]

I went right to the boot and connected direct to wiring loom at the bulb housings. There's no canbus on the alto.

Thanks