A Frame in Europe?

Adog

Adog

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Is it legal to tow a small car (i.e. Citroen C1) behind a motorhome using an A frame?
 
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In one word No, by law any motorised vehicle has to be trailered. No doubt 'others' will tell you that they use an 'A' Frame in europe and have never been stopped. At the end of the day it is your decision and upto you if you wish accept the possible consequences/inconvenience of being pulled over

Robert
 
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Europe, no.
Even breakdown services have to use a trailer/flatbed to recover breakdowns.

UK, yes.
It's never been decided by a court in the UK so it's neither legal or illegal but accepted if the rules for a common trailer are met.....lighting, brakes etc.

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This is discussed on here almost weekly.
Loads of posts if you use the 'Search' facility (top right of this page).
E.g. Over 200 comments and opinions in just this one recent thread here:

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

A frames in France ? why do they build, certificate and sell them if they are illegal ?

Just curious as i has assumed based on "forum info" that A frames were illegal in France. Bumped into a guy here in CH and he had this installed on his van: From this company: Systeme Blue Maybe my info is wrong or i'm missing something but it looks up to date and very much legit, they claim...
www.motorhomefun.co.uk www.motorhomefun.co.uk
 
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In Spain it's certainly not allowed..
As mentioned above you will always find some that tow a car and have never been stopped.
Does not mean they are legal, can say the same about speeding etc..

The Rules Regarding A – Frames | N332.es - Driving In Spain

If you have a motorhome and you want to carry your car to Spain, you have to be aware that A-Frames are forbidden in Spain, so you will need a trailer to carry your car. The law which legislates in this matter is the "Reglamento General de Circulación", and applies to all vehicles that are
n332.es n332.es
 
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we hired a car if we were stopping for a week or more in the same place otherwise used Electric bikes or jump on public transport .

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Take a chance and you may get away with it . Be prepared to unhitch and get a passenger to drive the toad if unlucky with French police . Make sure they are happy to drive on French roads .You don’t want to put yourself in a situation with 2 vehicles that need to be driven separately and only one driver .
 
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Adog said:
Is it legal to tow a small car (i.e. Citroen C1) behind a motorhome using an A frame?
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In a word “NO”. It’s not legal in Europe.
The towing of one motorised vehicle with another is outlawed under both EU regulations and UNECE regulations, where a trailer has to be designed to be towed by a motorised vehicle.
That said, many do it and get away with it but, there have been reports in the last 12 months alone of folk being stopped and forced to separate the vehicles and, in some cases fined, in France, Spain and Germany.

It is accepted in the U.K. as the RV C&U regs allow a trailer to be designed or adapted. Also, in the U.K., the TOAD has to comply with all of the regulations relevant to CatO2 (braked) trailers.
There has as yet, never been a test case in the U.K. courts and even the DfT infer that it is a grey area until such a case happens.
 
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TonyEmm said:
In a word “NO”. It’s not legal in Europe.
The towing of one motorised vehicle with another is outlawed under both EU regulations and UNECE regulations, where a trailer has to be designed to be towed by a motorised vehicle.
That said, many do it and get away with it but, there have been reports in the last 12 months alone of folk being stopped and forced to separate the vehicles and, in some cases fined, in France, Spain and Germany.

It is accepted in the U.K. as the RV C&U regs allow a trailer to be designed or adapted. Also, in the U.K., the TOAD has to comply with all of the regulations relevant to CatO2 (braked) trailers.
There has as yet, never been a test case in the U.K. courts and even the DfT infer that it is a grey area until such a case happens.
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Sums the situation up concisely and accurately 👍
 
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TonyEmm said:
There has as yet, never been a test case in the U.K. courts and even the DfT infer that it is a grey area until such a case happens.
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I hope it never happens as we tow a toad but I think if there is a fatality that can be 100% attributed to a toad failure they may come to an end.

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Badknee said:
I hope it never happens as we tow a toad but I think if there is a fatality that can be 100% attributed to a toad failure they may come to an end.
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I don’t see why a frames should end as a result of a fatality. There have now been 10 fatalities of e scooter riders but the trials continue.
 
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Badknee said:
I hope it never happens as we tow a toad but I think if there is a fatality that can be 100% attributed to a toad failure they may come to an end.
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TBH, I don’t think it would make a difference.

There was the serious incident Last November where the toad broke away, scattering pedestrians and at least 2 instances this year of totally destroyed front crash protection beams (both instances on their maiden trip) and still, DfT (via the DVSA) do not consider legislation and controls a priority…

<iframe src="https://giphy.com/embed/s4FDIU5rGfOpy" width="480" height="349" frameBorder="0" class="giphy-embed" allowFullScreen></iframe><p><a href="Link Removed">via GIPHY</a></p>
 
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There is a chap that spends a lot of time abroad, mostly Spain, we see him when he stays at the CS we use.
He tows a small car on an A frame and reckons he has registered it as a trailer in Spain (he puts all the relevant signs on it)
Don’t know how that works, is it a car or a trailer!?!?
 
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Shrimp said:
There is a chap that spends a lot of time abroad, mostly Spain, we see him when he stays at the CS we use.
He tows a small car on an A frame and reckons he has registered it as a trailer in Spain (he puts all the relevant signs on it)
Don’t know how that works, is it a car or a trailer!?!?
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The loophole that allowed towed-cars to be registered as a commercial trailer was closed back in February when
The DfT issued an amendment to The Trailer Registration Regulations 2021.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1043/made

(3) After regulation 4(7), insert—
“(8) In paragraph (1), “trailer” does not include a trailer that is a mechanically propelled vehicle.”.

DVLA are doing checks for duplicate registrations of VIN numbers. I’ve talked to a gentleman on another forum where his registration has been withdrawn.
 
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TonyEmm said:
The loophole that allowed towed-cars to be registered as a commercial trailer was closed back in February when
The DfT issued an amendment to The Trailer Registration Regulations 2021.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2021/1043/made

(3) After regulation 4(7), insert—
“(8) In paragraph (1), “trailer” does not include a trailer that is a mechanically propelled vehicle.”.

DVLA are doing checks for duplicate registrations of VIN numbers. I’ve talked to a gentleman on another forum where his registration has been withdrawn.
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Yes thats correct and I can confirm I did have my TOAD registered as a trailer for about a year before DVLA wrote to me in the Spring and said "you can't do that" and cancelled my trailer registration document! - I even had a nice trailer registration plate made up to sit in the back window when towing 😊

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This French couple with a toad ,said they had been coming to morroco for 15years towing a car no problems
 

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Graham Page said:
Yes thats correct and I can confirm I did have my TOAD registered as a trailer for about a year before DVLA wrote to me in the Spring and said "you can't do that" and cancelled my trailer registration document! - I even had a nice trailer registration plate made up to sit in the back window when towing 😊
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Thank you for the confirmation! ✅
 
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chesterfield hooligan said:
The way I understand it is all wheels on the road have to have working breaks in France and Spain
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If the toad has the TowAframe system fitted it works the brakes on all four wheels of the toad, and it does it very efficiently. And if you are good at reversing you can reverse with ease.

We always tow our toad in the UK, but if we are going to Spain on the Bilbao ferry it is cheaper to leave it at home and either hire a car or use cabs, rather than pay to take it in the Ferry.

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minesapint said:
If the toad has the TowAframe system fitted it works the brakes on all four wheels of the toad, and it does it very efficiently. And if you are good at reversing you can reverse with ease.

We always tow our toad in the UK, but if we are going to Spain on the Bilbao ferry it is cheaper to leave it at home and either hire a car or use cabs, rather than pay to take it in the Ferry.
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Our new toad should be with us in the first quarter of next year 🤔 We have already decided to have the TowAFrame system fitted once it’s here. I have seen one in the flesh and like the fact that you can drive up within a foot or so and just get the hitch and drop onto the tow bar, so eliminating the chance of bumping the back of the van.

As for using one abroad, I wouldn’t bother tbh. 👍
 
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Anyone interested in going into business with me to manufacture covers for a-framed cars that mock box trailers ... ? :giggle:
 
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Shrimp said:
He tows a small car on an A frame and reckons he has registered it as a trailer in Spain (he puts all the relevant signs on it)
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As far as I know, assuming the car weighs more than 750kg, then on the back he'll have one licence plate with the number of the towing vehicle, and a second one with a red background with the number of the trailer (ie the toad). When unhitched, and driven independently, he'd have to remove those two plates, and mount a car plate with the number of the car.
In order to get the plates he would have managed to get a car with two seperate ficha técnicas: One as a car and one has a trailer.
I would be very, very, surprised if he'd managed to do that.
 
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Burgo said:
As far as I know, assuming the car weighs more than 750kg, then on the back he'll have one licence plate with the number of the towing vehicle, and a second one with a red background with the number of the trailer (ie the toad). When unhitched, and driven independently, he'd have to remove those two plates, and mount a car plate with the number of the car.
In order to get the plates he would have managed to get a car with two seperate ficha técnicas: One as a car and one has a trailer.
I would be very, very, surprised if he'd managed to do that.
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A uk registered ‘commercial trailer’ would have white plates at the rear, but you’re right, it would need to be removed when no longer a trailer.
it was possible in the U.K. to register a ’towed car’ as a trailer but the loophole has (quite rightly) been closed.
Of course, a towed car is not a commercial trailer! This was one a-frame supplier (who recommended it) and a few users taking the piss! It’s no longer possible and existing registrations are being withdrawn.
 
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