Euro 4,5 or 6

[FamWeb]

So in our search for a van there are many factors. If cost were no issue it’s all obvious - nice new van, probably custom built (because we need a bed for a 6ft 5 individual and to accommodate the dog) with a euro 6 diesel engine (this assumes electric and hydrogen engines not yet possible).

We have an okay budget and have seen some options but in the layout is king game the best at present seems to have a euro 4 diesel engine.

Can anyone comment on how restrictive travelling round UK and Europe is with a euro 4 diesel engine v a euro 5?

And does anyone have any idea how long it will be possible to drive a euro 4 diesel or euro 5 diesel engine for?

Thanks in advance

 

[Coolcats]

So in our search for a van there are many factors. If cost were no issue it’s all obvious - nice new van, probably custom built (because we need a bed for a 6ft 5 individual and to accommodate the dog) with a euro 6 diesel engine (this assumes electric and hydrogen engines not yet possible).

We have an okay budget and have seen some options but in the layout is king game the best at present seems to have a euro 4 diesel engine.

Can anyone comment on how restrictive travelling round UK and Europe is with a euro 4 diesel engine v a euro 5?

And does anyone have any idea how long it will be possible to drive a euro 4 diesel or euro 5 diesel engine for?

Thanks in advance

Go for the latest you can EU6 is current and available from around 2017-18 in Fiat

 

[FamWeb]

I know we should go for the euro 6. Not currently an option in the layout we need with the money we have saved - not keen on taking out a loan.

My question was how limited would we be with a euro 4. And how quickly will that become more restrictive.

Yes we can get a euro 6 on our budget but the 6ft 5 one won’t fit in the bed!

 

[Coolcats]

I know we should go for the euro 6. Not currently an option in the layout we need with the money we have saved - not keen on taking out a loan.

My question was how limited would we be with a euro 4. And how quickly will that become more restrictive.

Yes we can get a euro 6 on our budget but the 6ft 5 one won’t fit in the bed!

Does this help plus check out LEZ and ULEZ

Crit'Air clean air stickers - need to know for driving in France | RAC Drive

With the law change in France we explain what the 'Crit'Air' clean air stickers are, where they're used, how to get one and what happens if you don't

www.rac.co.uk

 

[Bill-H]

Unless you are planning on driving into a low emission zone, what difference does it make.
Is there a difference in vehicle annual road tax and would a couple of hundred pounds a year extra put you off spending tens of thousands when buying the vehicle.
Mine is Euro 4 I think, but I wouldn't want to drive it through a cities small back streets - or try to park it there.

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[Richard n Ann]

Glad ours is euro 5. No adblue to faff about with (and replace the system when it enviably goes wrong)
Also I'd be looking for cam chain engines

 

[FamWeb]

Apologies I’m clearly not being clear here. I have googled and read much on LEZs and ULEZs. Know that things keep changing and concerned some French towns now have made it tricky to travel around the outskirts.

Therefore my question is probably for those with older vans who travel. Have you found travel restrictive and felt the need to upgrade or is travel still possible.

 

[FamWeb]

Does this help plus check out LEZ and ULEZ

Crit'Air clean air stickers - need to know for driving in France | RAC Drive

With the law change in France we explain what the 'Crit'Air' clean air stickers are, where they're used, how to get one and what happens if you don't

www.rac.co.uk

Apologies I’m clearly not being clear here. I have googled and read much on LEZs and ULEZs. Know that things keep changing and concerned some French towns now have made it tricky to travel around the outskirts.

Therefore my question is probably for those with older vans who travel. Have you found travel restrictive and felt the need to upgrade or is travel still possible.

 

[Boldly]

The answer to your question about how long you can drive a euro 4 is that no-one knows.
We have a euro 4 Ducato and have no problems yet. We go around the Rouen ring road and the Bordeaux ring road at least 4 times a year and for now crit air 3 is more than sufficient.
I have not been but understand Madrid and Barcelona can be problematic and am waiting to hear from any funsters who have had problems in benidorm. I don't think any has posted yet.

 

[FamWeb]

Unless you are planning on driving into a low emission zone, what difference does it make.
Is there a difference in vehicle annual road tax and would a couple of hundred pounds a year extra put you off spending tens of thousands when buying the vehicle.
Mine is Euro 4 I think, but I wouldn't want to drive it through a cities small back streets - or try to park it there.

This is sort of my thoughts…
We currently have an old petrol bongo and last year encountered Reims… which meant we had to very carefully plot a route. It may have just been we misunderstood the rules, but I wanted to make sure it really isn’t an issue before we buy.

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[peterc10]

Euro 4 will give you problems with UK LEZs. You will have to pay a hefty figure to enter them.

As with Europe, it will depend upon which country. In most cases, instead of paying to enter you will be banned altogether to their clean air zones, with hefty fines if you do.

 

[Boldly]

Euro 4 will give you problems with UK LEZs. You will have to pay a hefty figure to enter them.

As with Europe, it will depend upon which country. In most cases, instead of paying to enter you will be banned altogether to their clean air zones, with hefty fines if you do.

Our Euro 4 Ducato is £12.50 in London lez.
I would rather not pay but on the very few occasions I visit I can put up with that

 

[Bill-H]

This is sort of my thoughts…
We currently have an old petrol bongo and last year encountered Reims… which meant we had to very carefully plot a route. It may have just been we misunderstood the rules, but I wanted to make sure it really isn’t an issue before we buy.

I not felt the need to enter a LEZ in any country in Europe (a dozen or so). I'd use public transport if I wanted to go site seeing in a city. Having said that, I generally have a towed car with me which is Euro 6, but don't recall having driven it in a LEZ as I prefer country and coast on my travels. Electric bikes might be another option for city excursions

 

[herald_400rl]

Have to say we're Euro 2 and never had an issue. Getting to the peaks means 11 miles extra but that's the route we go anyway as its quicker and not through the centre of Sheffield.

Waze has an option to divert LEZ zones.

 

[SVMC15]

No problems so far with the euro 5 we have. Crit air is 2 so don't expect any problems in the foreseeable future.

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[FamWeb]

Euro 4 will give you problems with UK LEZs. You will have to pay a hefty figure to enter them.

As with Europe, it will depend upon which country. In most cases, instead of paying to enter you will be banned altogether to their clean air zones, with hefty fines if you do.

The only city this would really affect us in that minute is Bath - but even there we don’t have to (and probably wouldn’t want to) go in LEZ with a van/ motorhome - fortunately our euro 5 car (vw gate 2015) which is running very well doesn’t get charged in Bath.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I wonder if these low emission zones will be obsolete and disbanded when most vehicles are electric. There will just be a few vintage vehicles that won't make any difference

 

[Landy Andy]

Therefore my question is probably for those with older vans who travel. Have you found travel restrictive and felt the need to upgrade or is travel still possible.

My old van hasn’t restricted me going anywhere I want to go init.

 

[Barchetta47]

We are Euro 3 and do all our travels in Europe (+Morocco). I think big cities are/will become an issue such as Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Bordeaux. We’ve recently done Barcelona and Paris and in each case have stayed outside the zones and used public transport. We would do this even if we had a compliant vehicle.
In France, Rouen has a 24 day exemption scheme per annum for any non exempt vehicle, the newer LEZ zones such as Dieppe etc which are being introduced, as far as I can tell, require you to register but the ultimate aim is to reduce the number of vehicles pre 1997. Even in those cases if you are a resident I think you can still get an exemption. I’m happy to be proven wrong if I’ve misunderstood it.

So for us I think we will be okay for the next 5-10 years, fingers crossed

 

[ivorantony]

Our Euro 4 Ducato is £12.50 in London lez.
I would rather not pay but on the very few occasions I visit I can put up with that

Our Euro 4 being a PHGV was £200 per day inside London ULEZ so be careful if over 3500kg

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[ivorantony]

I wonder if these low emission zones will be obsolete and disbanded when most vehicles are electric. There will just be a few vintage vehicles that won't make any difference

You must be joking! It’s a cash cow fleecing the motorist, their is no way they will be rescinded.
Just move the goalposts to maximise revenue,

 

[BrochMike]

in the layout is king game the best at present seems to have a euro 4 diesel engine.

While not essential, Euro 6 inevitably gives you some future-proofing.

And, I appreciate you've done lots of research /searching but, if you can summarise your layout preference (with a rough idea of budget), the combined minds of MHF might be able to suggest/find some Euro 6 options you might have missed?

 

[Jonno1103]

Euro 4 will get you a normal yellow Crit Air sticker for France and a green Umweltplakette in Germany although some German cities such as Munich, Berlin, Stuttgart, Cologne & Dusseldorf, now have total exclusion zones. These stickers are compulsory, If you enter a German zone without a sticker you'll be fined €80. In France the fine is now €68 - €750 and is enforced by ANPR and other camera surveillance.

The Swiss copy France in most ways, again Euro 4 will get you a yellow Stick'Air.
In Spain the DGT will issue a Euro 4 diesel with a yellow 'B' badge.

This site has good information covering most Euro nations.

Emissions stickers: all rules per country | Eurocampings

For some years now, low emission zones and emissions stickers have been introduced on European roads and in cities. We tell you everything.

www.eurocampings.co.uk

 

[PlacidoD]

We are Euro 3 and do all our travels in Europe (+Morocco). I think big cities are/will become an issue such as Paris, Madrid, Barcelona, Bordeaux. We’ve recently done Barcelona and Paris and in each case have stayed outside the zones and used public transport. We would do this even if we had a compliant vehicle.
In France, Rouen has a 24 day exemption scheme per annum for any non exempt vehicle, the newer LEZ zones such as Dieppe etc which are being introduced, as far as I can tell, require you to register but the ultimate aim is to reduce the number of vehicles pre 1997. Even in those cases if you are a resident I think you can still get an exemption. I’m happy to be proven wrong if I’ve misunderstood it.

So for us I think we will be okay for the next 5-10 years, fingers crossed

News to me that there is a proposal for a LEZ in Dieppe. Can you give us a link?

I suspect the ferry terminal will be excluded and you might be kept out of the town centre. That happens now already because the Pont Colbert is out and not due to return until next year. So no big deal.

 

[Jonno1103]

Euro 7 kicks in next year which will also include brake dust & tyre particulates plus EV & Hybrid battery testing. These regs also have to met until 2036.

It's a known fact that heavier EV's produce more tyre, road & brake wear so expect a further cost on top of the RFL introduced on the 1st of April. None plug in Hybrids will be hit harder as the EU have proven that their emissions are not as friendly as manufacturers & drivers think... and let's not for get that the production emissions for an EV are around 50% higher than ICE.

I'm surprised it's taken them this long to financially exploit those who are trying to be more environmentally friendly!!

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[Jonno1103]

News to me that there is a proposal for LEZ in Dieppe. Can you give us a link?

I suspect the ferry terminal will be excluded and you might be kept out of the town centre. That happen now already because the Pont Colbert is out and not due to return until next year. So no big deal.

Dieppe doesn't have a particular zone but falls under that of Rouen. The Route de Dieppe requires a Crit Air sticker.

 

[PlacidoD]

So in our search for a van there are many factors. If cost were no issue it’s all obvious - nice new van, probably custom built (because we need a bed for a 6ft 5 individual and to accommodate the dog) with a euro 6 diesel engine (this assumes electric and hydrogen engines not yet possible).

We have an okay budget and have seen some options but in the layout is king game the best at present seems to have a euro 4 diesel engine.

Can anyone comment on how restrictive travelling round UK and Europe is with a euro 4 diesel engine v a euro 5?

And does anyone have any idea how long it will be possible to drive a euro 4 diesel or euro 5 diesel engine for?

Thanks in advance

My 2007 is Euro 4. I have no problems. My Garmin Satnav has an option to avoid low emission zones. So I simply opt for those if getting near any low emission zone.

I still work fulltime and have lots of out of work commitments so I simply could not justify a Euro 6 vehicle to sit on my drive doing nothing for all bar circa 4 weeks per year. Of course I would like a Euro 6 vehicle.

There are advantages to older Euro 4 vehicles. There is much less "tech"on them to go wrong.

The main candidates for a Euro 6 purchase are usually Fiat Ducato or Ford Transit based. Both of them have some horror stories associated with purchases:

Ducato:
Problems with autobox
No dipstick and a crazy oil fill gauge
Airbag sensor problems
Limp mode problems

Ford Transit:
Repeat Injector failures
High cost of wet belt service/replacement and dire consequences if not done timeously.

So although a shinny new motor has attractions there is a lot to be said for a more mature vehicle provided you can find the layout that you want/need.

 

[Brains]

It all depends on how long you are going to keep the vehicle.

I'd not buy a Euro3, in effect it's either a 'classic' or for 'spares & repairs'
If it's only going to be kept a couple of years, then a Euro4 may be OK, but be prepared to loose most of what you pay for it.
If it's longer than a couple of years then you want at least Euro 5.

Bottom line is, a decade from now, you will be unable to buy a fossil fuelled vehicle.
EV's will be the majority of vehicles on the road well before the end of the next decade.

By that point Euro 4's will be banned from all cities and many towns all across Europe, (and probably taxed out of economic viability)

A Euro 5 and Euro 6 may be still permitted into towns and some cities, but with tolls &/or restrictions.

 

[Jonno1103]

It all depends on how long you are going to keep the vehicle.

I'd not buy a Euro3, in effect it's either a 'classic' or for 'spares & repairs'
If it's only going to be kept a couple of years, then a Euro4 may be OK, but be prepared to loose most of what you pay for it.
If it's longer than a couple of years then you want at least Euro 5.

Bottom line is, a decade from now, you will be unable to buy a fossil fuelled vehicle.
EV's will be the majority of vehicles on the road well before the end of the next decade.

By that point Euro 4's will be banned from all cities and many towns all across Europe, (and probably taxed out of economic viability)

A Euro 5 and Euro 6 may be still permitted into towns and some cities, but with tolls &/or restrictions.

In some ways yes in others no. EV's will be hit quite hard with Euro 7 due to the tyre & brake wear regs whereas ICE powered vehicles which can run on low emission alternative fuels such as HVO will remain popular.

 

[PlacidoD]

"By that point {A decade from now} Euro 4's will be banned from all cities and many towns all across Europe, (and probably taxed out of economic viability)"

I doubt your predictions. City and town centres possibly or probably. It is not just MoHos that have to be considered but cars and commercial vehicles. So I see ring roads like the M60 and M25 remaining outside LEZ zones but city and many town centres subject to LEZ. Similarly major trunk routes will be LEZ free. That will do for me.

If you are right cars bought new in 2010 would be scrap. Remember there are many people with low incomes who live in areas where public transport infrastructure is poor or non-existant particularly in rural areas. Somehow I cannot see French retraités and agriculteurs putting up with that?!!