Dartford crossing price rise

[tofo]

Dartford crossing price increase warning

http://www.thurrockgazette.co.uk/news/9911094.Dartford_Crossing_tolls_to_rise_next_month/?ref=mc

:thumb::thumb::thumb:

 

[DuxDeluxe]

It's to control "congestion" don't you know? What utter ballcocks...... If they wanted to control congestion (my office is almost under the bridge so we see it every day) then simply raising the gates instead of raising the fees would help. They promise to do is in times of heavy traffic but (allegedly) never do so. Talk about screwing the motorist - it should have stopped being a fee paying crossing in about 2003. And there is no alternative - they've got us by the short ones:Angry:

 

[Chris]

It seems like only recently there was a 50% increase to £1.50.:Angry:

It's pretty outrageous but as has been said there isn't really an alternative route.

 

[ROB1CHELSEA1]

Did this country not sell it to another country? maybe they have put the fares up. (during Blairs reign) i maybe wrong.

 

[Pikey Pete]

In most other European countries, where there is no alternative route to bypass a city, that bypass is toll free, to reduce congestion and pollution in the city itself.

The Dartford crossing is just another rip off, as there is no alternative other than going round the M25 anti-clockwise from the North or clockwise from the South.
If on one day a week everyone did just that I wonder what the result would be?

It's time I think for a petition.


Pete:Cool:

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[Pikey Pete]

Did this country not sell it to another country? maybe they have put the fares up. (during Blairs reign) i maybe wrong.

That man Blair has a lot to answer for. I wouldn't be surprised to see T shirts about dancing on his grave at the next meeting of the CBI.

I do hope not as that would be in really bad taste.


Pete:Cool:

 

[normanandsue]

In most other European countries, where there is no alternative route to bypass a city, that bypass is toll free, to reduce congestion and pollution in the city itself.

The Dartford crossing is just another rip off, as there is no alternative other than going round the M25 anti-clockwise from the North or clockwise from the South.
If on one day a week everyone did just that I wonder what the result would be?

It's time I think for a petition.


Pete:Cool:

It worked on the Skye Bridge when the government was forced to scrap the toll charges. There is an alternate route round the M25 but the residents of Skye had no alternative as the only ferry crossing was scrapped as soon as the bridge was opened.
The Forth Road Bridge toll was scrapped too and now they are building another crossing without the aid of toll charges.
Take a note from the Scots and protest............................. it works
I am afraid a period of demonstration, like car drivers paying in 5p pieces so it snarls up the traffic as the machines count the money. Or everyone using the pay booths rather than the cash booths.

 

[Pikey Pete]

Did this country not sell it to another country? maybe they have put the fares up. (during Blairs reign) i maybe wrong.

It was Browns government that talked about selling it in 2009 but didn't.

The leader of the Thurrock council at that time stated that not only should it not be sold, but that Thurrock Council were committed to continue the fight to make the crossing Toll Free.

Three years is a long time in politics, apparently.

Pete:Cool:

 

[lorger]

We never use it on our way down from Scotland we take the M40 and then anti clockwise round the M25 it makes a difference of about 6 miles from our house to dover i reckon it saves us about an hour at least due to m40 being quieter and not having to wait at toll

 

[hilldweller]

They let us through free last week.

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[buttons]

We never use it on our way down from Scotland we take the M40 and then anti clockwise round the M25 it makes a difference of about 6 miles from our house to dover i reckon it saves us about an hour at least due to m40 being quieter and not having to wait at toll

So you are the reason that our stretch around junc 19 is so busy

 

[chatter]

Now correct me if im wrong but i am pretty sure that Dartford toll is now leased by LLC one of the french toll companies and has been for the last few years

The HA/Government 'own' the bridge/tunnel. The toll has paid off the original charge and the toll is now a congestion charge which is an important revenue stream to maintain the network. The HA let contracts for the operation of the bridge/tunnel.

​

 

[Mavis]

I thought the toll was paying for the second bridge they want to build

Link Removed

On the 13th of September 2009 the contractors of the Dartford River Crossing (Le Crossing) changed to Connect Plus M25, which again is made up of a consortium of Atkins, Egis, Skanska, and Balfour Beatty

 

[Red Sonja]

Chatter is right. It is a French Company that operates the Tolls on the Tunnels and brige.

We were told that once the bridge had paid for itself then there would be no more Dartford tolls thereby freeing up traffic on the M25.

Then surprise surprise they said Oh no we need the toll money so that we can upgrade the local roads and also put new equipment to pay tolls electronically.

The tolls are just a money making machine for someone. They rarely raise the barriers to free up the traffic. In fact when there was a severe power outage in Dartford due to somebody stealing the copper cables nearby the toll booths were running by generator after 4 hours and the local residents myself included waited between 4 -6 days yes days to get our power sorted with either temporary generators or a permanent fix.

Another gripe of mine is I live less than 2 miles from the toll booths (Kent side) but do not live in Dartford Borough so therefore do not get the residents discount (even though I am closer to the tolls than at least 60 % of the Dartford residents). We do however get all the traffic snarl ups on the local roads whenever anything happens on the M25.

The only alternative to cross the river is the Woolwich Ferry (which is free and operated by TFL) and of course the Blackwell Tunnell (Itself a traffic congestion Zone)

Thats it Rant Over - I have a Dart tag so will only Pay £1.33 instead of £2 when the cost increases. I would advise anyone who uses the Tunnel at least a few times a year to get one, It might not save you much but it does save you some money.

Sonja

 

[GJH]

The Dartford Crossing is a single example of a widespread problem - how should expansion of the transport network be funded?

If the Dartford Crossing is so congested at times that a new bridge is required then why should it not be paid for by the crossing users rather than from general taxation? This is entirely in line with the funding model for the new Tyne Tunnel which opened last year "The New Tyne Crossing project is entirely self-funded, paid for by tolls and with no burden on council tax payers."

The cost of the M6 Toll Road is coming from its users.

Rail fares have been rising for some years because government policy is that rail users should pay rather than taxpayers in general.

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[chatter]

The thing i dont understand is that the HWA leased it to a french company so surely if its about improving our roads/infrastucture we are loosing out somewhat as a company would not lease it unless they could turn a profit for its own shareholders/owners, and that profit is money lost for our road improvements

 

[Barclaybasher]

I don't understand the fuss over tolls in this country, they are few and far between anyway.

We accept that we have to pay tolls in France - and the bridges I have used there this year - Millau and Pont d'Normandie are much more expensive than the Dartford crossing

 

[scotjimland]

The Dartford Crossing is a single example of a widespread problem - how should expansion of the transport network be funded?

If the Dartford Crossing is so congested at times that a new bridge is required then why should it not be paid for by the crossing users rather than from general taxation? This is entirely in line with the funding model for the new Tyne Tunnel which opened last year "The New Tyne Crossing project is entirely self-funded, paid for by tolls and with no burden on council tax payers."

The cost of the M6 Toll Road is coming from its users.

Rail fares have been rising for some years because government policy is that rail users should pay rather than taxpayers in general.

I agree Graham, but the congestion is caused by queuing for the toll booths, not lack of bridge/tunnel capacity .. remove the toll , no congestion and new crossing not needed, but with 150,000 vehicles per day, £300,000 is not to be snuffed at ..

 

[Chris]

I don't understand the fuss over tolls in this country, they are few and far between anyway.

We accept that we have to pay tolls in France - and the bridges I have used there this year - Millau and Pont d'Normandie are much more expensive than the Dartford crossing

I agree but some of us have to use this bridge several times a week wheras its a bit less often in France.

 

[GJH]

I agree Graham, but the congestion is caused by queuing for the toll booths, not lack of bridge/tunnel capacity .. remove the toll , no congestion and new crossing not needed, but with 150,000 vehicles per day, £300,000 is not to be snuffed at ..

We haven't used Dartford Crossing all that much, maybe half a dozen times each way, but were only held up once and that was when there were major road works taking place. It was the middle of the Friday afternoon of bank holiday weekend in August 2006 and there were queues for several miles before the bridge. On all other occasions (including a couple of times around 9am on a Monday morning using the tunnel) congestion has been no worse than when we have used the Tyne Tunnel or Humber Bridge.

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[Mavis]

If you traveled everyday Graham you would see the terrible congestion caused most days but on a Friday it is very bad.
We have Bluewater and Lakeside as well as the M25 causing very large tailbacks.

They do hope to get rid of the toll booths by 2014 and use Electronic Pay tolls.
The Highways Agency has set aside £25million to make improvements at the junction on the M25, which is a notorious bottleneck.

The project will see a range of civil engineering works carried out, including the demolition of toll booths, which will eventually see congestion charge style cameras brought in to speed up traffic through the crossing.

Work will also be done realigning carriageways, putting up better signs, improving kerbs, drainage, lighting, fences, gates and traffic management, as well as vehicle height and width sensors, CCTV, ramp metering, and new traffic signals and road barrier systems.


A start date for the work is yet to be finalised, but it’s part of £75million of works being carried out across the M25.

A spokesman for the Highways Agency said it hoped to get rid of the barriers by October 2014

 

[ukbill]

i use dartford quite a few times a month and its not the toll its the congestion caused by the booths yes install auto cameras so you pay for the toll maybe on-line then the congestion would disappear around 3 weeks ago we was off to kent for a few days in the end we turned off at the a13 and gave up because of the congestion

 

[Barclaybasher]

I agree Graham, but the congestion is caused by queuing for the toll booths, not lack of bridge/tunnel capacity .. remove the toll , no congestion and new crossing not needed, but with 150,000 vehicles per day, £300,000 is not to be snuffed at ..

I am sure if the toll were removed traffic would increase as would congestion - requirng another crossing........

Some time ago a bridge (privately owned) over the Derwent in Derby charged £1 to cross a 50' bridge, I lived close to it and would often use it to save time and mileage - I had a choice - pay £1 or go the long way round

 

[GJH]

I am sure if the toll were removed traffic would increase as would congestion - requirng another crossing........

Some time ago a bridge (privately owned) over the Derwent in Derby charged £1 to cross a 50' bridge, I lived close to it and would often use it to save time and mileage - [HI]I had a choice - pay £1 or go the long way round[/HI]

This is the main point isn't it? It's the same with the Tyne Tunnel and Humber Bridge, the toll is a lot less than the fuel cost of using an alternative route.

 

[GJH]

If you traveled everyday Graham you would see the terrible congestion caused most days but on a Friday it is very bad.
We have Bluewater and Lakeside as well as the M25 causing very large tailbacks.(snip)

Perhaps the owners of businesses based at Bluewater and Lakeside should be surcharged to fund the crossing

When the second Tyne Tunnel was being built businesses at Silverlink retail park, east of Newcastle, complained that there would still be a bottleneck at the roundabout from which traffic leaves the A19 for the retail park. They completely ignored the fact that they had opened their shops to take profits knowing full well that there would be traffic problems created by their presence.

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[Chris]

This is the main point isn't it? It's the same with the Tyne Tunnel and Humber Bridge, the toll is a lot less than the fuel cost of using an alternative route.

It will just lead to extra congestion on all routes to the Blackwall Tunnel which is bloody awful already.. That's a 100% increase in about 5 years:Angry:

 

[GJH]

It will just lead to extra congestion on all routes to the Blackwall Tunnel which is bloody awful already.. That's a 100% increase in about 5 years:Angry:

Perhaps the reason is that the south east (and London in particular) is too full and any further development needs to be banned

 

[Chris]

It's much too full - especially with Eastern Europeans.

 

[slobadoberbob]

But< but< but<

But do not forget it is FREE between 22.00 hours and 06.00 and free to motorbikes all the time.

I use it all the time.. I agree the congestion is due to the toll booths. But the jams tend to be in the last mile before the bridge.. drop off at the A13 turn off under the A13 and slip back down the side of the M25 head towards the services stay in the main flow and you go to the big roundabout just before the tunnel approach.... on to the roundabout exit up the ramp and join the M25 at the very last point.. left lane is a continuation lane... stay in it as when you get over the bridge on the Kent side there are more lanes to the left for truck than the right side... I use the wide load lane and I am not held up very long... pain cutting back across to the M25 proper before the A2 exits (Dartford) and A2 proper... but with care you can do it.

Bob

 

[DuxDeluxe]

Yep.... Do that every time I go to the office. Quite a few HGV drivers have wised up to it.

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