2030 no new diesel vans. What's your plan? (3 Viewers)

[Terry]

I think I read that Amazon leccy vans have a range of a little over 100 miles ?

 

[Gromett]

I think I read that Amazon leccy vans have a range of a little over 100 miles ?

Most new vans have a 100-150 mile range as that is all the the vast majority of users needs.

We may have to wait quite a while before our small market segment needs are taken into account.

They have limited batteries currently so they will design a van that most of the market can use and put those batteries to those. It will be quite a while until they have a surplus of batteries and the market is big enough to support the development of a long range van.

 

[olley]

Battery weight is the problem on a sub 3.5 ton van, bigger batteries more weight less cargo.

 

[Coolcats]

Battery weight is the problem on a sub 3.5 ton van, bigger batteries more weight less cargo.

Not such an issue if Hydrogen was used.

 

[Terry]

An engine weights must knock a good bit off ,also gearbox ?

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[olley]

A

Not such an issue if Hydrogen was used.

And no shortage either.

 

[Terry]

An engine weights must knock a good bit off ,also gearbox ?

No fuel either

 

[joe and sue]

No idea what I'm talking about SD but we are beginning to see large numbers of Amazon delivery vans and others which are totally electric. Would this suggest that some vans are already available for conversion to motorhomes.

But local work only, very limited range, as has always been the issue, just look at the old electric milk floats

 

[glastry]

well --- in 2030 i will probably steal a decent electric van , change the plates and the colour and head south , till they find me .
oh dear -thats only 9 years away - better make that 2040 then.
doesn't time fly?

 

[olley]

These are the spec of the Arrival electric van. https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2021/arrival-electric-van/
Electric vans can be driven on a standard car licence up to 4.25 tons, which is why using an ali chassis and composite panels on the short range it has a payload of nearly 2 tons.

The interesting bit from the specs is the weight of the battery, to go from 67kwh to 139kwh increases the kerb weight by 360kg so roughly speaking the 67kwh battery weighs 350kg for roughly a 100 mile range. To increase the range to what a petrol van could do (500miles) would mean the batteries would weigh somewhere around 1750kg.

Battery size	67kWh	89kWh	111kWh	139kWh
Driving range	112 miles	149 miles	180 miles	211 miles
Gross vehicle weight	4,250kg
Kerb weight	2,275kg	2,395kg	2,515kg	2,635kg
Max payload	1,975kg	1,855kg	1,735kg	1,615kg

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[Terry Gill]

These are the spec of the Arrival electric van. https://www.parkers.co.uk/vans-pickups/news/2021/arrival-electric-van/
Electric vans can be driven on a standard car licence up to 4.25 tons, which is why using an ali chassis and composite panels on the short range it has a payload of nearly 2 tons.

The interesting bit from the specs is the weight of the battery, to go from 67kwh to 139kwh increases the kerb weight by 360kg so roughly speaking the 67kwh battery weighs 350kg for roughly a 100 mile range. To increase the range to what a petrol van could do (500miles) would mean the batteries would weigh somewhere around 1750kg.

Battery size	67kWh	89kWh	111kWh	139kWh
Driving range	112 miles	149 miles	180 miles	211 miles
Gross vehicle weight	4,250kg
Kerb weight	2,275kg	2,395kg	2,515kg	2,635kg
Max payload	1,975kg	1,855kg	1,735kg	1,615kg

Add to this 1250kg of A Class coachwork, 90kg of fuel and you’ll have virtually no payload at all. Plus range will be massively less than shown here.

 

[Jimsnap]

I don't think you need to worry for some time yet.
The ban is on new vehicle sales; there will still be millions of petrol and diesel vehicles on the road for many years to come after that.

 

[Kevin R]

Much can happen in the meantime. Government and policies change with new research and lobbying. I’m just keeping calm and deal with problems when they occur.

 

[Krumpli]

The problem being discussed is valid. However I am worried about using a MH after electric takes over. My favourite haunt is Greece. In simple terms I manage to get to the south of the Peloponnese in 5 days. With an electric range of 250 miles (say) it would take me 10 stops at least. If lucky I might be able to stop overnight at a charging point. If not it could easily cause me to stop an extra day or two.
By which time the average motorhome owner should really start on the way back home. End of Greek holiday.
The future is electric and the future is bleak.

 

[nicholsong]

The problem being discussed is valid. However I am worried about using a MH after electric takes over. My favourite haunt is Greece. In simple terms I manage to get to the south of the Peloponnese in 5 days. With an electric range of 250 miles (say) it would take me 10 stops at least. If lucky I might be able to stop overnight at a charging point. If not it could easily cause me to stop an extra day or two.
By which time the average motorhome owner should really start on the way back home. End of Greek holiday.
The future is electric and the future is bleak.

I had to smile at that comment

It might get better

Our MH is on Patmos, near Turkey, having driven from Poland, so we would have similar concerns in an EV.

Apart from the EV aspect I am interested in your attachment to the Peloponnese. I know the eastern coast from sailing in Greece for 30 years.

The reason we have a MH now is to be able to tour the interior of Europe, including Greece, so after we return to Patmos, do 2 more weeks there, we will ferry back to Piraeus and spend 2 weeks in the Peloponnese before ferry from Patras.

Do have any recommendations, or even a travel blog, for anywhere West of Naphlion? We are not looking for ancients sites, more coastal or rural areas with good tavernas and just parking not campsites.

I already know pjay's excellent map and Tam's blog, but wonder if you can add to that, please.

Eff 'aristo, para poly

Geoff

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[Terry]

Would it be possible to use solar to help charge ? No idea on voltage on leccy vehicles but assume they are not 12v

 

[tonyidle]

The changeover to EVs will not be painless. A lot of what we do now may not be possible. Restrictions on the use of ICE will increase. In the example given by Krumpli would it really affect many people if the distance one can drive is limited to 250 miles in a day? On a scale of concerns that should be pretty low down.

 

[Gromett]

Would it be possible to use solar to help charge ? No idea on voltage on leccy vehicles but assume they are not 12v

No, the amount of solar you could fit on a van roof would not be enough to make even a minor dent in an EV's requirements.

In fact. In an EV motorhome it is likely you will get rid of the solar panels and leisure battery and just use the vehicle battery for the habitation stuff.
A 100AH lead acid battery equates to 1200Wh or 1.2KWh of storage. With under half of that being usable.
With a 50KWh battery in the van, you would use less than 1% of the battery to get the same amount of battery usage.

For me I can foresee me stopping at the nearest supercharger to a campsite, blatting it back up to 100% then foregoing sites with hookups or not paying the extra if it is an option.
Going off hookup will be much easier in an EV van.

 

[Gaza1515]

It looks like the nearer we get to 2030 we have decisions to make. Would you be mad to buy a new diesel van after say 2025? or do you think the prices of diesel will hold up in the move to electric, drop like a stone or maybe even go up?

I know that many of us will be able to hide our own easter eggs by 2030, but younger Funsters who expect to be motorhoming long into the 30's whats your plan? keep your van, buy newish now and keep it, wait and see, keep calm and carry on.

Hi, Look at the bigger picture, for example, farm tractors run on diesel, they will not be going electric. They would need tons of battery's to plough a field, HGV's, everything you buy is moved by HGV's. Isn't our brand-new Royal Navy's ships all powered by fuel oil.

 

[Neil S]

No way will we ever have an electric motorhome , we won't be able to afford it .
Besides long term we will be buying a static in the lakes or the Dales and just spend the summers down there .
I'll be hanging on to our very low mileage petrol engine Skoda which is our second car and very economical until were forced to change to a battery powered vehicle .
If we want some winter sun I'll rent an apartment through the Winter months in Spain and just fly out

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[Jamesh]

Hi, Look at the bigger picture, for example, farm tractors run on diesel, they will not be going electric. They would need tons of battery's to plough a field, HGV's, everything you buy is moved by HGV's. Isn't our brand-new Royal Navy's ships all powered by fuel oil.

Not to mention Airbus and Boeing not having a useable alternative to fossil fuels, nor F1 with all its jet setting!


Cheers James

 

[Gromett]

Not to mention Airbus and Boeing not having a useable alternative to fossil fuels, nor F1 with all its jet setting!

Hydrogen for long distance airlines, batteries for short and medium range.
F1 will probably move to some synthetic green fuel.

 

[Terry]

No, the amount of solar you could fit on a van roof would not be enough to make even a minor dent in an EV's requirements.

In fact. In an EV motorhome it is likely you will get rid of the solar panels and leisure battery and just use the vehicle battery for the habitation stuff.
A 100AH lead acid battery equates to 1200Wh or 1.2KWh of storage. With under half of that being usable.
With a 50KWh battery in the van, you would use less than 1% of the battery to get the same amount of battery usage.

For me I can foresee me stopping at the nearest supercharger to a campsite, blatting it back up to 100% then foregoing sites with hookups or not paying the extra if it is an option.
Going off hookup will be much easier in an EV van.

Hi Karl,
As I understand they use 300 to 450 KW motors and batts can be charged using 110 / 220 / or 440 v super chargers. SPs kick out a lot more than 12v it's the charge controller that limits it to 12 v ish . Not sure on how much SP do kick out,just wondered if tech was able to do anything to help charge ?
Edit agree that vehicle battery could/ would be used but battery tech would need to improve a lot.
What's this new battery tech by Toyota ?

 

[Gromett]

Hi Karl,
As I understand they use 300 to 450 KW motors and batts can be charged using 110 / 220 / or 440 v super chargers. SPs kick out a lot more than 12v it's the charge controller that limits it to 12 v ish . Not sure on how much SP do kick out,just wondered if tech was able to do anything to help charge ?
Edit agree that vehicle battery could/ would be used but battery tech would need to improve a lot.
What's this new battery tech by Toyota ?

The voltage is not the limiting factor it is the power output. Most vans couldn't carry enough solar panels to make a decent dent in an EV sized battery pack. The extra weight and wind resistance would more than likely offset enough of the gains to make them unpractical. It is why you don't see solar panels on any commercial mass market cars. Just not enough surface area to have a significant impact on range over a day.

 

[glenn2926]

The changeover to EVs will not be painless. A lot of what we do now may not be possible. Restrictions on the use of ICE will increase. In the example given by Krumpli would it really affect many people if the distance one can drive is limited to 250 miles in a day? On a scale of concerns that should be pretty low down.

Hardly progress really.

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[Gromett]

if the distance one can drive is limited to 250 miles in a day

Who says this distance is limited to 250 miles in a day?
250 miles. charge for 40 minutes then another 250 miles. 500 miles in one day should be enough for most people surely?

 

[glenn2926]

Who says this distance is limited to 250 miles in a day?
250 miles. charge for 40 minutes then another 250 miles. 500 miles in one day should be enough for most people surely?

Again, hardly progress. I can do 500 miles on a tank and then refill for another 500 miles in about five minutes.

 

[Andy_Elddis125]

Charging will get faster. Solid state batteries may be around by 2030. But a one hour stop every 200 miles is not such an inconvenience. The vehicle heater/air-con (heat pump) will be able to do the habitation space and the vehicle battery will power the fridge, hot water, cooking, 240V AC (down from the 500V DC) so lose a lot of complexity and weight. No more gas checks and discussions about LPG vs Calor, different cylinders in europe etc.

 

[Glas Robin]

Hi, Look at the bigger picture, for example, farm tractors run on diesel, they will not be going electric. They would need tons of battery's to plough a field, HGV's, everything you buy is moved by HGV's. Isn't our brand-new Royal Navy's ships all powered by fuel oil.

Technology changes.

1920s.

1930s

There's perhaps 10 years development between those two tractors. Add another 10 years and you're into Grey Fergies and a proper 3 point hitch which fundamentally revolutionised agriculture and feeding the world.

We are at the early stages of usable EVs just now. But be assured that we will have adffordable electric tractors, HGVs and Mohos in the near future. There are already electric trucks and tractors. They will just get bigger and more powerful and more usable.

History tells us that there is only one-way traffic in technological development (better, faster, smaller, cheaper) - and in the people saying today "it'll never happen, it'll never work, it'll never be affordable" etc, I hear echoes of people 100 years ago complaining they needed to refuel their ICE multiple times a day, when their horse needed feeding once.

 

[Gromett]

Again, hardly progress. I can do 500 miles on a tank and then refill for another 500 miles in about five minutes.

Depends on how you define progress. No pollution and quieter, smooth, more reliable drive.

I have NEVER done 500 miles in one stint without stopping for half an hour for food/drink/toilet break.

3 hours is about right for a stop for most sensible drivers 4 at the outside on a longer leg of a journey.

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