To Buy, or Not to Buy? (1 Viewer)

[Kannon Fodda]

Am I being stupid to even consider buying a new motorhome? If you have a newish motorhome, and were starting over (ignoring whether you had the money), would you buy again? Am I running scared un-necessarily?

Despite the internet being a wonderful place, the natural scheme of things seems that negative comment is more prevalent than the positive. This and other websites inevitably attract those who have had a poor experience, or who have concerns with their purchases or potential purchases. Those who are merely satisfied may be a silent majority? It seems a rarity that the happy person makes positive comment.

I've only been a member here for a few days. But in that time I've seen many current threads on dealers going bankrupt, serious and less significant vehicle defects, poor quality build, reliability issues, warranty concerns, theft ... There seems to be few who seem happy with their lot. It is disconcerting when you are about to shell out some very significant sums.

 

[Southdowners]

I think that if you buy from a reputable dealership then motorhome ownership is a fantastic thing. We've bought three motorhomes since 2015. Two from a dealer who we wouldn't use again and our current one from a very good dealership. We'd buy from them again - we'd also buy the same vehicle again.

If you're considering buying then there's plenty of info on this site to assist you in making a decision. There are dealership reviews and a buyer's guide available on this site.

Personally, I'd go to a motorhome show and get an idea of what you'd like then research dealers who stock the make/model you require.

I know what you're saying about negative comments being sometimes more prevalent but I haven't found it to be the case on this site. Every motorhome, no matter the price tag, has snags which can be very annoying but its how they are dealt with that is important in making a happy (and returning) customer.

Good luck!

 

[The Dudess]

We bought our current motorhome new, although our previous 3 were used. If there had been used one with the same configuration when we bought ours then I would have bought used, however the one we fell in love with was a brand new model so we had to buy new. You will usually find that used motorhomes come with a lot of accessories already fitted which will save you a fortune e.g. awning, sat dish, 2nd battery, solar panel, TV, security system, rear view camera, GPS etc etc. New ones come with virtually nothing extra.

If this is your first motorhome I would suggest buying used from a reputable dealer who will usually give you 1 years warranty.

Check out the reviews on this forum.

 

[TinaLes]

My experience on 1st MH
Ordered new from NEC show a British built van, ideal layout, large manufacturer, build times were being delayed no reason given, many owners were all complaining about the same list of "common" defects. I challenged the manufacturer on their open forum as to whether my new van would come with all these common defects or would they be sorted out by the time of it being built....no answer was given, despite persuasion from other forum members to answer me...so order cancelled.
Bought a brand new German van, so many compromises made on layout, but primary concern to me, was build quality, and great feedback from existing owners.
We wanted a brand new van, as we ideally wanted one where no one had slept in the beds, used the bathroom, everything shiney & new with a 2 year warranty.
Van has been great, never missed a beat, and we are really happy with it.
BUT! knowing what I know now 18 months in, You have to weigh up the options price list add that to the base price, then remember anything you fit afterwards like solar, air suspension, hydraulic levelers, sat dish, alarms, trackers etc, you will never get back that cost when you trade in. As the dealer mentioned to me, what ever extras you fit aftersale, you will lose it, as I will give you the same trade in price as one that doesn't have all that gear, "it just makes my job easier to sell yours opposed to a standard one parked beside it"
My advice would therefore be yes, if your budget allows, buy a new one, fit the extras that you require, but make sure you get the full benefit in value by using it and keeping it long enough to offset the additional costs.

Option 2 The Hindsight Option.
Buy a 2nd hand upmarket van that's out of reach when at the new price, it will probably come with thousands of pounds worth of toys and extras.
Ideally,It will be run in, have a full service history and have most of its initial faults (if any) fixed, it will come with a 12 month warranty if bought from a good dealer, mot & taxed.
I won't mention any brand names, but I know what I would be looking for if I traded our existing van. Buying these new would be way over our budget, but they would be German & rear wheel drive, say no more eh
Hope that helps.
Les

 

[The Wino]

Depends on what you want and the price of new and secondhand if you are dithering why not go fairly low budget second hand private purchase and if the lifestyle is for you trade in against new thats what we did only lost £500 or so on the first one over 2 years. One thing that might worry me buying new is the market seems to be slowing down everyone has got used to very low depreciation as the price of new keeps going up it might not last that being said nearly new at a dealer won't be a lot less than new you might get free toys but unless you were going to get them anyway its no saving.

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[nicholsong]

I agree with Tinal's Option 2 (Hindsight - except my purchase was that route with foresight, but would be the same with hindsight) except I would do it privately as the chances of needing warranty work in one year is slight on a quality German MH, after teething problems have already been sorted, and the costs would be hopefully minimal - well within the difference in cost between dealer and private purchase.

I bought my first MH - German quality, bought privately 10 years ago(now 16 years old) never regretted it and only had minor faults, mostly plastic bits(fridge etc.) deteriorating.

One does have to put in a lot of research on what one wants - major factors being type of construction, size and layout, build quality, payload. Having narrowed it down then one has to be patient - that applies to new because of delivery dates(and slippage), unless on forecourt, or S/H to wait for right one to come to market.

According to the price a recent buyer of a near identical MH to ours paid about a month ago, my MH has depreciated £2,500 in 10 years(£250p.a.) Try driving a new one out of the dealer, down to the roundabout, back to the dealer and ask the the trade-in price.

I never understand the comment about 'I do not want to use a bed or toilet somebody else has used'. However, if that is important, change the mattress and toilet seat - or the whole of both, and you will still have saved thousands £ in the difference between new and secondhand prices. Do these people always buy new houses or change all the bathrooms/toilets before moving in?

Geoff

[I could not answer the poll because it said 'New' and 2019]

 

[The Wino]

I agree with Tinal's Option 2 (Hindsight - except my purchase was that route with foresight, but would be the same with hindsight) except I would do it privately as the chances of needing warranty work in one year is slight on a quality German MH, after teething problems have already been sorted, and the costs would be hopefully minimal - well within the difference in cost between dealer and private purchase.

I bought my first MH - German quality, bought privately 10 years ago(now 16 years old) never regretted it and only had minor faults, mostly plastic bits(fridge etc.) deteriorating.

One does have to put in a lot of research on what one wants - major factors being type of construction, size and layout, build quality, payload. Having narrowed it down then one has to be patient - that applies to new because of delivery dates(and slippage), unless on forecourt, or S/H to wait for right one to come to market.

According to the price a recent buyer of a near identical MH to ours paid about a month ago, my MH has depreciated £2,500 in 10 years(£250p.a.) Try driving a new one out of the dealer, down to the roundabout, back to the dealer and ask the the trade-in price.

I never understand the comment about 'I do not want to use a bed or toilet somebody else has used'. However, if that is important, change the mattress and toilet seat - or the whole of both, and you will still have saved thousands £ in the difference between new and secondhand prices. Do these people always buy new houses or change all the bathrooms/toilets before moving in?

Geoff

I always wonder if they insist on a new matress/toilet seat every time they go on holiday!!!!

 

[TinaLes]

Quote from Geoff:

I never understand the comment about 'I do not want to use a bed or toilet somebody else has used'. However, if that is important, change the mattress and toilet seat - or the whole of both, and you will still have saved thousands £ in the difference between new and secondhand prices. Do these people always buy new houses or change all the bathrooms/toilets before moving in?

Geoff[/QUOTE]
That's because you are a very practical man Geoff, I had to work on TinaL really hard to sell the concept in the first place. When you are under the thumb like most of us on here, you do what you can on your first MH purchase just to get them involved, and give that occasional reassuring smile in the whole concept of CAMPING! over staying in a foreign beach hotel in glorious sunshine.
You might mention, no more queues at airports or hanging around for hours in the terminal, the ability to have your own mobile hotel (not home) that you just jump in and head for adventure.
You dont mention things like emptying cassettes, not running the shower for longer than 30 seconds, or that they will have to dry their hair whilst on the move, with the window open.
So you have to lure them in with, everything new, nice & shiney, smelling of leather.....now do you see what I had to do for our 1st ever MH, hopefully I will have a wider choice 2nd time around
Les

 

[Delboyarapaho]

You don't say whether this purchase would be your first Moho so I am assuming it is. On that basis you need to recognise how many people go through several Mohos before they arrive at the layout they really want. You will see lots of very low mileage second hand vehicles for sale and that isn't just because people don't get enough time to use them. They frequently change their minds about what they want once they get to use a vehicle in earnest. We did and fortunately found the layout that suits us on our second vehicle but we spoke to people who have had 6 or 7 vehicles.

So do you want to keep buying new, paying the VAT, paying for alarms, trackers and other extras or does it make more sense to buy a good second hand vehicle and hedge your risk? The more you pay, if you get it wrong, the more you will lose and mistakes can be very costly (£10s k).

We bought both vehicles still within the manufacturers warranty period, the first with 6000 miles on the clock, the second with 2600 miles on the clock. They were virtually new and benefitted from both dealer and manufacturers warranty (for a period) but we saved over £20K each time on the price the dealer wanted for new and got some extras that had been fitted by the person who bought new.

I never buy new cars or Mohos any more. Did that when I felt it mattered and then came to my senses and let others take the large loss.

 

[nicholsong]

, hopefully I will have a wider choice 2nd time around
Les

Les

You might want to edit that last sentence before Tinal sees it and thinks it refers to her.

Meanwhile I am

Geoff

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[nicholsong]

I never buy new cars or Mohos any more. Did that when I felt it mattered and then came to my senses and let others take the large loss.[/QUOTE]

Agreed

Only new vehicle I bought was my first - a new Minivan(no Purchase Tax) in 1962 for £359 cash.

It was the proceeds of working as a builder's labourer and then a driver in a gap year before University.

Only extra cost was a £10 fine for exceeding 40mph in a 'commercial vehicle' on an unrestricted road [Old law]

Geoff

 

[Kannon Fodda]

Ok so yes this would be my first motorhome. I've been looking around for a good while now, attended shows, visited dealers, watched websites and all sorts. I may be new here but I've been browsing around the interweb for a good few months. Eventually one has to stop looking, and take the plunge. I think I have done my research, understood my needs and expectations, know what are the must haves niceties luxuries and white elephants. I know there is a risk of getting it wrong, but I'm also very aware that I'm going to have to live with it, as I wont have any ability to incur further expense of swapping out. This is a long term decision.

I did at first look at second hand options, in fact probably around the 10 year old mark. I thought that would still be a reliable condition age, but the costs would be lower. It was surprising how much some vans still cost, the choice has proven very limited in the vehicle length I wanted especially when I wanted certain things I deemed essential but yet on vans of that period they were clearly rare (cruise control for the speed limiter function - I use that daily when in the car with all these average cameras out and about). Many vehicles were simply unsuitable with layouts that wouldn't work for me.

It's only when you get to vehicles 2/3 years old many "essentials" become more standard. And then you find that vans of that age seem to have asking prices on forecourts not that different from new despite the new build VAT and other OTR costs, even allowing for accessories. Weird.

Perhaps I have unrealistic expectations of what I deem essential to the motorhome. I'm all to aware that there are different base vehicle manufacturers and options, along with different levels of converter. In turn that leads to different pricing levels. It's clear when looking at listings from some potential manufacturers that their pricing remains out of my reach. But some of the cheaper converters, even allowing for the costs of "options" do seem "affordable". With all converters, ultimately they are doing some thing that is labour intensive, rather than the mechanised build of the base vehicle. That hand build introduces variables and risks to all converters, and from what I read has higher challenges with the nature of the coach built enclosure, compared to the PVC.

Many "new" vans seem to have been built, shipped to a dealer and then wait for a buyer. Great you should be able to clamber over it before parting with cash, to at least understand quality. But I'd have to order new and wait a few months for it to arrive and then rely on the Pre Delivery Inspection. At least that gives me a couple of months to save some cash. But in the meantime, I'll be brooding over having made the right choice of dealer and van, and reading all the "don't do it" website comments.

 

[Lenny HB]

On our 3rd Motorhome only ever bought new, depreciation has been very low on them. All Hymer's from the same dealer in Belgium.
Can't see any advantage in buying second hand.

Don't believe the bullsh*t about loosing the vat on a new van, it's total bullsh*t.
Last van when I traded it at just under 3 years old, I got 9% less than what I paid for it, perhaps someone can explain where I lost the 20% vat.

 

[Southdowners]

I don't think you've said what you're looking for Kannon. It might be worth looking at the classified section on this site. There's a lovely Niesmann & Bischoff Flair for sale at the moment I believe.

 

[LesW]

Bought secondhand because no new vans suited us.

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[StephandJohn]

We bought ours new 11 years ago. It was a show model so was in the dealers and we could get a good look at it. We did have some damp issues after a year when a lot of other Swifts were having the same problem. Swift sorted it out under the warranty and its been fine since.
We do occasionally go to shows and look around but never see anything we like as much so keep this one. It just suits us. We don't see the point of changing just to have the latest model. Not bothered about depreciation because when we come to the end of our motorhoming life I don't think we'll care by then.

 

[Kannon Fodda]

I don't think you've said what you're looking for Kannon. It might be worth looking at the classified section on this site. There's a lovely Niesmann & Bischoff Flair for sale at the moment I believe.

I have deliberately been evasive on what I am looking for in this thread as I'm trying to gauge a more general point of view rather than for my specific model (my posting history would identify it). In practice, there are so many different sizes, types and price ranges of motorhome. If one size were to fit all then specifics could apply but many of the opinions I've seen elsewhere offer blanket "don't buy this brand", and "don't buy from" statements, condemning a whole range of stuff, perhaps on one individual experience, tarring everything with the same brush.

Responses so far in this thread, and particularly from the poll, would suggest the generalistic criticism of brands and dealers, isn't justified, and for that I thank all who have voted as it offers some re-assurance.

 

[Brucek]

Some decisions are so complex that it is beyond human comprehension to take all of the factors into account. What then do you do in those circumstances? In my view do your research and then make a decision. Tweak it if necessary but at least you will in possession of more facts having made a move.

Specifically concerning a motorhome, buy what suits you from a reputable dealer, new or secondhand, but I would go for new. If things go wrong, and they well might, have the dealer fix them under warranty and you will have the van you hoped for. Nothing is irrevocable.

In our case we bought an Autotrail V Line 540se cos we liked the layout. Bought new because I am very allergic to pet hair and you can't rely on previous owners to be honest about 'pet free'. Okay we have had some build issues, solar panel wired up wrong, drain pipes falling off etc. but at the end of the day this is only plumbing or sparky work that the dealer has rectified at no cost to me. Will other stuff go wrong? Maybe, but that is more than offset by waking up in a new place every couple of days with the excitement of a day's exploring.

 

[hymerman]

Never been able to afford new , but all of my second hand Hymers have been great , don't regret any of them , just changed internal layout as my circumstances changed and gradually upgraded the model and year. Also never lost any money on any of them to depreciation, so that's about 20 years ownership with no depreciation.

 

[Cheshirecat57]

@Kannon Fodda
My 3rd new motorhome in 12 monthsarrives kn 2 weeks

My experience is ;-
Most of thestuff that I imagined/thought were important and on my “list” at onset turned out not to be actually important

Most of the things that turned out to be ACTUALLY important, weren't even on the bloody list at the start

Reality changes and ( I assume) is different for everyone as we all end up using them differently
That is the real challenge to getting it right

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[busbuddy]

i have always bought used, even american stuff, but i saw a dethleffs grand alpa at a dealers recently and if i had £109k in my pocket i would have drove it away, monster van for small van money

people only tend to post on any forum about the bad stuff, you rarely get a 'my van is great' comment as people who are happy just use their van

 

[Jasz]

I bought new 3 years ago, an Auto-Trail (a make that gets a lot of negative comments on here and other sites). We like the layout of ours and have had no significant problems with it so far and plan to keep it for some years (so I couldn't answer the questionnaire).
We saw no second hand vans that we liked - any cheap enough to save money looked dated and didn't have things like LED lights.

 

[Silver-Fox]

We bought our current motorhome new, although our previous 3 were used

And very nice it is too

 

[SpeedyDux]

@Kannon Fodda - Good to see you are doing plenty of research. So did I, and we went to several shows to take a closer look at new and used MHs. I changed my mind several times about everything - size, layout, base vehicle, A-Class, Coachbuilts, PVCs, from Hymers to Bongos. It was important to bounce ideas off the Duxette and arrive at a joint decision that fitted her requirements as well as mine. I also needed it to be a daily driver because it had to replace a versatile and much loved VW T4 camper.

I narrowed it down to a shortlist of PVCs from several converters, and by a process of elimination was left with the 5.4m one we now have. That model was launched at the NEC in October 2016 so finding a used one wasn't an option. It had to be new. Several deep breaths later we placed an order, and waited .. and waited ... 8 months. At least we were able to order the finishes and options we wanted.

The supplying dealer was the proverbial mix of good, bad, and indifferent service. The Fiat bit has gone into the nearest Fiat Professional workshop twice for recalls to be done. Aside from some irritating rattles and a few plastic screw covers falling off, the conversion part has been fault-free. Touch wood it will stay that way. We have enjoyed our trips and have no plans to swap this PVC.

The optional Comfortmatic gearbox was a leap of faith. I never had a chance to test drive one first. It has turned out to be relaxing if a bit quirky. It is very different to a conventional torque converter autobox of the kind I was used to having on my cars.

Good luck with your hunt for the right MH for you. Research, research, research!

 

[Mr porky]

We bought our current motorhome from new after seeing it on display at the nec Birmingham. Perfect layout, large shower,large garage giving space for a scooter and pushbikes.left hand drive etc, basically exactly what we wanted,
But it has been back to the dealers for a few snag repairs nothing major just silly things like catch’s on doors surround sound not working plus other stuff thankfully all sorted.
I actually think what helped was the dealers but it’s very frustrating after you have spend all this money you would expect a trouble free product.
I believe the dealers (premium motorhomes Doncaster)have not had much luck selling the Eura mobil brand so they have a selection that they make take a deal on its always worth a look.
We are very happy with our now hopefully problem free motorhome and would I buy new again hmmm .

Yes.

After lots of research into the brand and the dealer.

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[tonyidle]

Can't see any advantage in buying second hand.

Basically you can have a more expensive van for the same budget. I bought my 2012 van a year ago. It had been driven but barely used for living in. It had 3500 miles on the clock and had suffered £40K depreciation which brought it to within my budget. The depreciation from the sellers viewpoint would of course be higher by the dealers margin.

 

[Abacist]

Basically you can have a more expensive van for the same budget. I bought my 2012 van a year ago. It had been driven but barely used for living in. It had 3500 miles on the clock and had suffered £40K depreciation which brought it to within my budget. The depreciation from the sellers viewpoint would of course be higher by the dealers margin.

Likewise! We bought our 2014 van last July. 2 previous owners and it had 1900 miles on the clock. Ours had suffered about £66k depreciation from its new list price with all its extras. We've had a few niggles, probably due to lack of use, but could neither afford nor contemplate buying a new van like ours. Issues so far:- electric door lock replaced, gizmo to run the fridge on mains electric replaced and currently have an issue with the control panel and distribution unit which are being repaired under the warranty.

 

[Lenny HB]

Basically you can have a more expensive van for the same budget. I bought my 2012 van a year ago. It had been driven but barely used for living in. It had 3500 miles on the clock and had suffered £40K depreciation which brought it to within my budget. The depreciation from the sellers viewpoint would of course be higher by the dealers margin.

Likewise! We bought our 2014 van last July. 2 previous owners and it had 1900 miles on the clock. Ours had suffered about £66k depreciation from its new list price with all its extras. We've had a few niggles, probably due to lack of use, but could neither afford nor contemplate buying a new van like ours. Issues so far:- electric door lock replaced, gizmo to run the fridge on mains electric replaced and currently have an issue with the control panel and distribution unit which are being repaired under the warranty.

Basically agree with what you are both saying but from our point of view we have never earnt a lot so now that we can afford it we like to buy new.
Also if we bought in the UK we could only afford a second hand van of the quality we like. So being savy buyers and buying abroad we can afford to buy a fairly decent van new.

 

[nicholsong]

A couple of points which are a bit separate from the new/secondhand dicussion but come into the decision making.

Does one want or need a recent engine Euro 5/6 with the complicated electronics and exhaust gizmos?

If you want to drive into Low Emissions Zones the answer is yes, but does one have to drive in, as there are few campsites/Aires within them.

I you want to stay in the countryside or small towns and villages those emissions do not affect you.

There are numerous threads and posts where garages have replaced expensive ECUs and other electronics when the fault was a simple engineering one, which a modern mechanic could not find, because he just read the diagnostics print-out, and changed what was suggested - diagnostic programmed to sell expensive spares?

There are many of us with the more basic FIAT 2.8jtd who are so happy to have the basics that it is a factor in not wanting to change MHs. It helps if one is happy with the rest of the product, but in our case after 10 years we are.

Of course one cannot buy a simple engine in a new MH - the politicians will not allow it.

Geoff

 

[tonyidle]

A couple of points which are a bit separate from the new/secondhand dicussion but come into the decision making.

Does one want or need a recent engine Euro 5/6 with the complicated electronics and exhaust gizmos?

If you want to drive into Low Emissions Zones the answer is yes, but does one have to drive in, as there are few campsites/Aires within them.

I you want to stay in the countryside or small towns and villages those emissions do not affect you.

There are numerous threads and posts where garages have replaced expensive ECUs and other electronics when the fault was a simple engineering one, which a modern mechanic could not find, because he just read the diagnostics print-out, and changed what was suggested - diagnostic programmed to sell expensive spares?

There are many of us with the more basic FIAT 2.8jtd who are so happy to have the basics that it is a factor in not wanting to change MHs. It helps if one is happy with the rest of the product, but in our case after 10 years we are.

Of course one cannot buy a simple engine in a new MH - the politicians will not allow it.

Geoff

I'd imagine diagnostics & ECU replacement would be just as expensive for the 2.8jtd as for any other common-rail Diesel. There is admittedly less emissions control equipment on the jtd but it's up there with the rest in terms of engine control & fuelling.

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