Not happy - But what to do?

[scotjimland]

a couple of week's ago , i began to considering a major change in direction .

Some years ago, around about 2003 we had a Karmann Mississippi, 6mts in length so not a big van by any means.. ..We were camping in a CL near Gt Yarmouth we left the site and went to Yarmouth seafront to park up for the day, not to camp..

We parked legally on the promenade but were puzzled and somewhat perplexed by the number of passing motorists who blew their horns as they passed.. what was the matter with them, we even had pedestrians should abuse at us.. it made me think why do they dislike motorhomes so much ?

It was later that year we were parked on Aldeburgh seawall and decided to stay the night that a bunch of yobs banging the van walls during the night and also broke a window..

That was enough for us.. no more wild camping.. but the point I'm making, motorhomes are now unwelcome in many towns and villages.. locals are fed up with it.. We carried on motorhoming, even went full time for three years and have owned one up until last week.. we decided some time ago that if we are using sites we may as well have a caravan and can then visit towns etc with the car which is far more convenient..

That was our "change in direction"

 

[makems]

Latest statistics I could find showed over 12,300 new motorhomes sold in UK in in 2016 and on an in reasing trend.
Motorhomes last for ages so new scrappages will be only a very small percentage of new sales.
Thats a lot of new mohos on the road every year. They all need to find somewhere to stop overnight when they are being used.
The situation can only get worse.

 

[Stealaway]

I can't avoid thinking that all these councils are missing a trick. It's £6 to park for 24hours here in Fort William but of course no MoHo between 8.00pm and 7.00am. Charging £10 a night would bring in good revenue from what normally would be an empty carpark. By far the majority of MoHo's are responsible people and would leave no evidence of their passing. I'm also sure many would be in the local pubs and restaurants. It matters not to us we can always find an alternative and went a mile out of town and settled down for night with a bottle of Aldi wine watching the TT coverage.

 

[GJH]

I can't avoid thinking that all these councils are missing a trick. It's £6 to park for 24hours here in Fort William but of course no MoHo between 8.00pm and 7.00am. Charging £10 a night would bring in good revenue from what normally would be an empty carpark. By far the majority of MoHo's are responsible people and would leave no evidence of their passing. I'm also sure many would be in the local pubs and restaurants. It matters not to us we can always find an alternative and went a mile out of town and settled down for night with a bottle of Aldi wine watching the TT coverage.

The council will probably take no action unless prompted so why not do so? Contact them pointing out the advantages they would gain by following your suggestion.
The contact details for the chief exec and other senior managers are Here.

 

[Stealaway]

Ha ha!

It’s not ‘wild camping’ though Is it? It’s inconsiderate camping!

Edit: actually I wouldn’t call it camping at all... it’s parking

You will notice I seldom call it wild camping. All we need is somewhere to park overnight on our travels. We don't ever head for a camping field, where you pay £35 a night! to park a fully independent MoHo with no need for anything more. We have a MoHo to take us on our journeys - not to find a field to sit in -------- and spend the day topping up the water tank with a watering can. Oh what joy

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[westhamman]

While wildcamping, once your toilet is full, water tank empty, waste tank full, rubbish bags full, what do you do, go home and empty them?????

 

[LesW]

Hmmmm , i have to admit , i've been thinking about this one a lot myself recently , trouble is i only started motorhoming last year . A couple of months ago , i learned of something that i was a bit unhappy about , and it's been building since . I've come across several other thing's that have thrown my original plan of full timing in doubt , to a point where it seemed every week i would find something that make's that even more unlikely .
Now i love my little van , despite it's age , it's in really good condition and it's upgrade/overhaul is coming along nicely , though a little slower than i would like . I've already spent quite a bit of dosh to achieve this , but to be honest , a couple of week's ago , i began to considering a major change in direction .

We're in a similar postition, got our first van last year (got no plans to change).. we did a bit of 'a couple of days away' in England to get used to things, then in May last year went of to France for three weeks.. it was like a new world to us.

We travelled for hours on near empty roads, stopping at aires or ACSI sites with plenty of room, never used toll roads prefering the 'N' or 'D' ones, passing though some lovely villages where we occasionally stopped for a coffee or buy provisions. We never felt unwelcome and we loved it, so much we went again in September for nearly six weeks!!

The sad fact is England is too crowded for this kind of travelling, and of course is full of 'Jobsworths'... councils, generally want to see an immediate profit on any investment they may make, far too short sighted in my view.

So whilst we do intend to try and see more of Britain, the real place to go is across the channel, this year hopefully, it'll be turn left from the tunnel toward Holland, Germany etc.. ALL IS NOT LOST.

 

[olley]

The NC500 being busy should be a business opportunity for Scotland not a drawback.

 

[Lenny HB]

While wildcamping, once your toilet is full, water tank empty, waste tank full, rubbish bags full, what do you do, go home and empty them?????

Easy to last 5-10 days without servicing so whats the problem. Always carry a spare cassette, can get 180Lt in my 160 Lt tank, plenty of room in the garage or under floor lockers for rubish. Also its fairly easy to service without causing a nuisance, garages ofter let you fill with water, harbours always have taps, you can empty the loo in public toilets.

 

[Lenny HB]

Did Scotland about 5 years ago in April over Easter not that many vans about didn't have any problems. Only spent 2 nights on a site when we climbed Ben Nevis, had no rain for 2 weeks even saw 26°, so not risking it again.
As we live 20 miles from a port on the south coast we nearly always go south so much easier and less hassel.

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[scotjimland]

The NC500 being busy should be a business opportunity for Scotland not a drawback.

it's just another ill thought out plan.. Scottish Tourist board do all the advertising and promotion with no thought to providing infrastructure to support the increase in traffic, places to stop and facilities.. , aires etc..

Did they consider the impact on local people's way of life.. , clogging single track roads , rubbish, traffic and mayhem that it's causing ?

Granted a few locals will make money.. but not many.. the vast majority of vans will come stocked up with supplies bought at Tesco in Inverness. Beside most who life and work in the Highlands don't run corner shops.

Locals are now up in arms and resenting the intrusion on their peaceful way of life , and who can blame them.. certainly not me.. and one thing for sure, I won't be going back to tour that road again..



I predicted this would happen when I first read about it.. and it's come to pass, the genie won't go back in the bottle.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...owners-spoiling-it-for-the-rest-of-us.137289/

 

[GJH]

of course is full of 'Jobsworths'... councils, generally want to see an immediate profit on any investment they may make, far too short sighted in my view.

Immediate profit? Really? Is that the case in any of the councils which have made facilities available?
What councils do have to do is to ensure, when considering creating "Aires", is that they are not only fair to motorhomers but also other visitors and - especially - their council tax payers.

 

[Southdowners]

While wildcamping, once your toilet is full, water tank empty, waste tank full, rubbish bags full, what do you do, go home and empty them?????

I guess it varies a lot depending on what holding tanks vehicles have. Ours are very big so we can go for a long time without filling or emptying... certainly longer than a week. We travel on the continent far more than in the UK so when we do move we go to a service point or an aire to deal with everything in one hit. We visit a site to do our washing or do it at an aire and hang the washing in the garage to dry.

 

[scotjimland]

I think the day will come a day when the NC500 and the Highlands will become one big National Park.. much like many places in the US, you will require to buy a permit to visit, .. money raised could be re-invested in facilities and infrastructure.. visitor numbers can then be controlled and managed..

This would also bring much needed employment and investment to the region ..

 

[Southdowners]

Immediate profit? Really? Is that the case in any of the councils which have made facilities available?
What councils do have to do is to ensure, when considering creating "Aires", is that they are not only fair to motorhomers but also other visitors and - especially - their council tax payers.

Are there aires in the UK?

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[JJ]

While wildcamping, once your toilet is full, water tank empty, waste tank full, rubbish bags full, what do you do, go home and empty them?????

No you don't...

... believe it or not there are MILLIONS of places you can empty loos, waste tanks and rubbish bags AND fill with water perfectly properly WITHOUT going home.

I am so sorry but I get SO VERY, VERY ANGRY over threads like this where people with NO EXPERIENCE of Off-Site motorhoming make ignorant assumptions.

Why don't those who don't Off-Site motorhome just enjoy themselves on their campsites and STOP casting aspersions on those of us who use our vans differently.

JJ

 

[GJH]

Are there aires in the UK?

Yes, several have been established in the last few years as a result of constructive communication between a small number of motorhome owners and local councils.

Have a look at Andy Clarke's list. It includes the Practical Motorhome Nightstops (which are a category of CL certificated by the MCC) but also those established by local authorities.

New Dover Road at Canterbury is probably the most well known but I think Lancashire probably has most at the moment.
Other recent addition are Helmsley and Skipton.

 

[SpeedyDux]

Easy to last 5-10 days without servicing so whats the problem. Always carry a spare cassette, can get 180Lt in my 160 Lt tank, plenty of room in the garage or under floor lockers for rubish. Also its fairly easy to service without causing a nuisance, garages ofter let you fill with water, harbours always have taps, you can empty the loo in public toilets.

Round here the Council recently shut almost all the public toilets to cut costs. There is one left, a PAYGO loo in the park. You would have to take your cassette a long way from the short term pay-and-display car park, past the kiddies playground and the cafe ... or, there might still be a loo upstairs in the public library in the new municipal offices ... maybe you will be lucky elsewhere, but I see a trend towards closing public toilets especially the ones next to car parks.

Got room for 2 spare cassettes?

 

[MattR]

Seeing the photo in the newspaper article in post #20 I now fully realise the pleasure that FLT enjoy in wild camping , it must be so nice to be surrounded by like minded folk within a few feet of you so conversation can take place with others without leaving your van and the neighbourly wafting from sogs to sweeten the night air and all this for nothing, idyllic

Perhaps I have got it wrong paying money to pitch on sites with my neighbours at least 6metres away surrounded by neatly cut grass and power, water and waste dump on my pitch and heated shower and toilet facilities should I need them.

If I had the choice between proper wildcamping and the sites that you mentioned, we would never meet.

 

[The Wino]

We're up in Fort William and the place is packed with motorhomes. We last came here in June four years ago and there was hardly any M/H's . Today we have seen hundreds. There now seems to be far to many and we are quickly becoming the scurch of society.
I think we have seen the best times and it's going to get worse and it's all down hill from here.
But I just don't know what else to do, we still love traveling and wild camping but we are becoming less and less welcome - every where.
Any suggestions?

We were up there 2 weeks ago not too bad perhaps go slightly earlier and not when the schools are off

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[Stealaway]

While wildcamping, once your toilet is full, water tank empty, waste tank full, rubbish bags full, what do you do, go home and empty them?????

We've been up here a week now and we do need water and the cassette needs emptying We are now on the way to the FREE sevices at Glen Coe.

 

[The Wino]

Space is obviously a factor but that doesn't preclude the provision of Aires in the UK.

The trouble is that, for too many councils, their main experience of motorhomers is of the abuse mentioned in earlier posts rather than of people wanting to work with them. The result is that motorhomers as a whole are seen as undesirable and treated accordingly.

The only people that can correct that impression are motorhomers - and those who continue to camp at unlicensed sites or in defiance of other legal restrictions undermine the argument.

Disagree or it would never have resulted in aires being so popular in France. I think a lot is due to the 2 big clubs having a vested interest in letting councils think we need to have sites. Just 2 weeks ago saw a sign in Scotland no overnight parking in the car park here are the nearest sites "where you can have all the facilities you need". To redress the balance the best thing to do is leave no mess/litter and spend in local shops/pubs etc always making a point of mentioning you are in a motorhome and love being able to roam freely.

 

[Puddleduck]

The council will probably take no action unless prompted so why not do so? Contact them pointing out the advantages they would gain by following your suggestion.
The contact details for the chief exec and other senior managers are Here.

Are there aires in the UK?

Yes, several have been established in the last few years as a result of constructive communication between a small number of motorhome owners and local councils.

Have a look at Andy Clarke's list. It includes the Practical Motorhome Nightstops (which are a category of CL certificated by the MCC) but also those established by local authorities.

New Dover Road at Canterbury is probably the most well known but I think Lancashire probably has most at the moment.
Other recent addition are Helmsley and Skipton.

Hawick in The Scottish Borders being another very successful aire. I have been talking to Lancashire CC about the P&R just off the M6 at Lancaster having an aire provision (last year) and they were very helpful.

When we do park overnight and sleep in the van (legally) we always make a point of picking up litter, bagging it and taking it away for proper disposal. Also if we have to use a public loo to empty a cassette I take cleaning equipment and make sure the loo is cleaner after use than before (and smells better!) I do not object to paying to use a loo as they cost money to provide and maintain ..... it is better when they are clean though.

 

[Southdowners]

One thing which may put councils off opening aires is the gypsy problem. How would they stop them getting onto a site?

We had gypsies on our village green - the mess they left was unbelievable! They even left a puppy. Now our green has an ugly earth mound all the way round it to prevent another invasion... the police were absolutely useless and clearly frightened of dealing with the situation.

 

[GJH]

Disagree or it would never have resulted in aires being so popular in France. I think a lot is due to the 2 big clubs having a vested interest in letting councils think we need to have sites. Just 2 weeks ago saw a sign in Scotland no overnight parking in the car park here are the nearest sites "where you can have all the facilities you need". To redress the balance the best thing to do is leave no mess/litter and spend in local shops/pubs etc always making a point of mentioning you are in a motorhome and love being able to roam freely.

There are several reasons for Aires being popular in France, not least that their vehicle camping tended to be motorised whilst the UK's was more tradtionally towed.

As to councils thinking that conventional sites are sufficient, have you ever contacted them to explain that is not the case and the benefits they could gain from creating Aires? That, in the main, is how those that do exist have come about.
If people who want Aires can't be bothered to tell councils about it then they can hardly expect councils to be bothered.

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[GJH]

One thing which may put councils off opening aires is the gypsy problem. How would they stop them getting onto a site?

That is something which councils have to consider and it varies from place to place. Some places have more trouble with "travellers" than others.
Obviously the potential for high clean up costs in a particular area might outweigh any benefits gained.
However, it seems not to be a problem in the places which have set up Aires already so shouldn't stop people trying to persuade councils.

 

[Manxcat]

I’m writing this sitting on my pitch 20yrds from a crystal clear sea with water electric and waste on my pitch, I have a swimming pool,very clean toilets and shower. There is washing up liquid in dispensers on every washing up sink and they have one of those machines that you put your cassette in and it does it all for you with added fluid Free...! I have a restaurant and bar where I’m welcomed for my custom..... people respect one another with a good morning in whatever language....

I have all this for €17 = £14.91 per night.... this is in Croatia but is also available throughout Europe....

I used to go on a cc in a corner of a field with one tap and a drain cover for £15 in the uk ....

Sometimes it doesn’t surprise me that some people just don’t care about RIP OFF BRITAIN ...

That sound wonderful. Don't suppose it's naturist as well? That would be the icing on the cake!

 

[Puddleduck]

One thing which may put councils off opening aires is the gypsy problem. How would they stop them getting onto a site?

That is something which councils have to consider and it varies from place to place. Some places have more trouble with "travellers" than others.
Obviously the potential for high clean up costs in a particular area might outweigh any benefits gained.
However, it seems not to be a problem in the places which have set up Aires already so shouldn't stop people trying to persuade councils.

In Ireland there is a community watch system in operation (we saw notices in several places when we were there last year). Once an alert is received all the local height barriers are closed and locked. We were concerned when we saw open height barriers across a car park on Achill Island after we had been advised to park there for a few nights (lovely place, I'd go back anytime) but we were told that it was to prevent travelers and they were shut and locked when the alert was sounded. The first night we were parked up there was a knock at the door around 8.30 in the evening I was quite concerned but it was the local police man (who had told us to park there) checking we were okay and we had everything we needed. We had a drink in the pub with him the following day when he was off duty

 

[Deleted member 29692]

By far the majority of MoHo's are responsible people and would leave no evidence of their passing.

We all like to believe that and I'm sure it's broadly true.

When you approach any local authority with your proposal for an aire or overnight parking provision or whatever they are likely to ask you what evidence you have to support this statement. Therein lies the first problem.

You might even be asked to explain why they've had problems with motorhomes in the past if we're all so well behaved.

I'm also sure many would be in the local pubs and restaurants.

Again why should the local authority take your word for it? They will want to see hard figures. How many people will pay to park overnight each month? How many of these will use local businesses? How much will they spend? How did you collect this data?

The problem with that claim is that a even quick search on here will suggest that those of us that do that are not in the majority. Whenever this topic comes up you generally find that for everyone who says that they are happy to pay to park overnight and will always use local pubs, restaurants and shops someone else will pop up and proudly announce that they refuse to ever pay to park, they do all their shopping in Aldi before they leave home and they make it a point of honour to never spend any money in the places they visit.

Vague assurances that all motorhomers are lovely people who always behave properly and always frequent local businesses just won't cut it. In most areas previous experience tells them otherwise.

 

[Puddleduck]

it's just another ill thought out plan.. Scottish Tourist board do all the advertising and promotion with no thought to providing infrastructure to support the increase in traffic, places to stop and facilities.. , aires etc..

Did they consider the impact on local people's way of life.. , clogging single track roads , rubbish, traffic and mayhem that it's causing ?

Granted a few locals will make money.. but not many.. the vast majority of vans will come stocked up with supplies bought at Tesco in Inverness. Beside most who life and work in the Highlands don't run corner shops.

Locals are now up in arms and resenting the intrusion on their peaceful way of life , and who can blame them.. certainly not me.. and one thing for sure, I won't be going back to tour that road again..



I predicted this would happen when I first read about it.. and it's come to pass, the genie won't go back in the bottle.

https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/foru...owners-spoiling-it-for-the-rest-of-us.137289/

VisitScotland as they are now ...... in a central office with little knowledge of anything outside their own little bubble. Most of the local offices have been closed and the only tourist information now available is from small businesses who are willing to provide a leaflet stand (at their own cost).

The NC500 was a great idea but poorly implemented and managed. I'd like to see other tourist routes developed but with a lot of local input as to "must see" places, refreshment facilities and overnight stops.

Our local tourist office (in Kelso) did not reopen this year, I am not really surprised as they were unable to supply leaflets and information last year for our rally as their supply was limited but they were judged on how many leaflets they gave out!!!!! The local historical society is working on a plan for an office staffed by volunteers but that is in the very early stages.

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