Parking in Laybys on main roads.

[gus-lopez]

Banning private vehicles might not suit all the HGV and PSV drivers that want to get to work in the morning or get home from work if they have been working nights.

I like my suggestion of HGV`s working nights so the roads will be clear in the daytime for all.

Like in bad weather ,you only need to go to work once & you can stay until you aren't needed/weather improves.

 

[filopastry]

Would there be any benefit in trucks having two (or more) drivers and decent sleeping accommodation such as long distance coaches have.

Already exists the modern truck has all the comforts of home including ovens and microwaves and two bunk beds in most if not all. There are companies who run a system such as you suggest one being Willy Betz a worse and lower paid employer I do not know. Even if you could run a truck 24/24 and you cannot not even with two drivers unless the truck returns top base and changes drivers thereby unable to do the long distance in the first place, the other problem is places to unload and load at all hours of the day, whilst they exist are not all. The easiest way to increase productivity in to increase gross permissible weights of vehicles, others often suggested are road train systems running on the arterial roads with transit points where these trains can be again split down into individual artics, all this needs space, and the lack of space, and cost of what is available is the major problem.

@matamoros = well that's another fine mess we got ourselves into then

 

[robnchris]

[QUOTE="robnchris, post: 2673904, member: 9901"why can`t we just make it simple? you reach the age of 60yrs and you get a buss pass for anywhere in the British Isles..

that’s what it is now. You get a bus pass from the age that you would be able to retire if you were a woman. So a man or a woman who was sixty in 2013 could get a bus pass then. I didn’t find out until I was 62, 3 years ago, so got one then. It is valid anywhere in UK[/QUOTE]

Yes that is true If you were 60yrs of age in 2013, except it depended what month you were 60yrs. Born in 1951 I was 60yrs in the September and had to wait until I was 61 1/2yrs. after 2013 the goal posts moved, Chris was 60yrs Last December she can`t get her bus pas until 2023.
If you live in Wales, Scotland or Northern Ireland you will get a bus pass at 60yrs.
In England it`s when you are 67yrs. the now natural retirement age, Thank you Mr Alistair Darling.

Your bus pass is valid only for the country you live in, so if you live near the border then you can say, travel from England into Wales but once in Wales you can only travel back into England.
I would have loved to have been in that meeting, how to make what should have been a simple solution totally ridiculous.

 

[busby]

Many people , myself included, will never use any form of public transport. All it does is encourage disease to be spread , so making it impossible to get drs appointments.
If I still lived in the Uk lack of being able to own my own vehicle would mean that there would be no point in working as that is all I did it for.

The easiest way of encouraging greater use of the toll roads would be to remove the speed limits.
They'd be packed then but the previso would have to be added that first priority in event of an accident is the road cleared using bulldozers & no medical assistance until that is done. They'd still be queuing up to use them.

JIT should never have been allowed to become what it has. All it means is that the general public & taxpayers are paying to provide the companies lack of storage.

Most road planning is never done with capacity for future increases. By the time the M25 was complete it was already over capacity. Most other roads are the same.
The only way to concentrate minds on the problem would be to deny the use of all & any type of vehicle to any governmental member + all family members until such time as the average Mway speed is 71mph. The same would apply to local councils responsible for local roads.
All in the jobs cannot step down until the above is achieved.

Easily introduced by the Queen under terrorism legislation directive requiring no parliamentary discussion or vote & entraps all the useless political dross ad infinitum until the problem is solved + they are all walking until such time.

What toll roads are they,,do you mean uk or abroad because i have only seen one in UK,,few bridges and tunnels though,,I use public transport as do my friends but we are never ill,,,,,Thought your post was funny though as i imagine you intended it,,BUSBY

 

[gus-lopez]

Even if you could run a truck 24/24 and you cannot not even with two drivers unless the truck returns top base and changes drivers thereby unable to do the long distance in the first place

There must be some way of doing it legally due to the sheer amount of companies already doing it. Primafrio , a huge operation based in Murcia have around 500 of there trucks every day travelling between here & the UK, spanish trucks registered in Portugal & all run with 2 drivers.
My neighbour does international haulage & when delivering to Scotland they add a second driver so that he can leave here say early morning today & tip in Scotland late tomorrow .

What toll roads are they,,do you mean uk or abroad because i have only seen one in UK,,few bridges and tunnels though,,I use public transport as do my friends but we are never ill,,,,,Thought your post was funny though as i imagine you intended it,,BUSBY

Is there still only one in the UK? & yes I meant the UK. & yes I was being serious.

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[busby]

I will admit to my ignorance about truck driving. Said ignorance having been somewhat reduced by the professional drivers on this thread.
Would there be any benefit in trucks having two (or more) drivers and decent sleeping accommodation such as long distance coaches have. There would then be no need for parking for long periods and the journey times would be greatly reduced making more use of a expensive asset (the truck).
It wouldn't be prohibitively expensive as apparently the drivers are not paid highly.

Double manned trucks can only do 22 hours i think before a 10 hour break,, which i personally do not think is safe day in day out..Have you tried sleeping properly whilst travelling..Its ok for a one off journey but can you imagine it 6 days/nights a week.Do you not think that if double manned trucks worked the major players in the haulage industry would be doing it..The way in which goods are transported by road has to be the most efficient and economical (you would not believe how low rates are) way in which our modern way of life is serviced,,,If any of you know better contact Mr Stobbart etc i would think a highly paid excecutive position within their company awaits,,,BUSBY.

 

[busby]

There must be some way of doing it legally due to the sheer amount of companies already doing it. Primafrio , a huge operation based in Murcia have around 500 of there trucks every day travelling between here & the UK, spanish trucks registered in Portugal & all run with 2 drivers.
My neighbour does international haulage & when delivering to Scotland they add a second driver so that he can leave here say early morning today & tip in Scotland late tomorrow .



Is there still only one in the UK? & yes I meant the UK. & yes I was being serious.

I honestly thought you were having a laugh with your post,,Would think only a very small percentage of haulage companies use two drivers,,Not seen a Willie Betz on the road for ages but they employed Bulgarian drivers on terrible wages,, Don't know where you get sheer amount of companies doing double manning,,,,BUSBY..

 

[busby]

There must be some way of doing it legally due to the sheer amount of companies already doing it. Primafrio , a huge operation based in Murcia have around 500 of there trucks every day travelling between here & the UK, spanish trucks registered in Portugal & all run with 2 drivers.
My neighbour does international haulage & when delivering to Scotland they add a second driver so that he can leave here say early morning today & tip in Scotland late tomorrow .



Is there still only one in the UK? & yes I meant the UK. & yes I was being serious.

Can only think of M6 toll,,please correct me if i am mistaken,,BUSBY..

 

[2657]

There must be some way of doing it legally due to the sheer amount of companies already doing it. Primafrio , a huge operation based in Murcia have around 500 of there trucks every day travelling between here & the UK, spanish trucks registered in Portugal & all run with 2 drivers.
My neighbour does international haulage & when delivering to Scotland they add a second driver so that he can leave here say early morning today & tip in Scotland late tomorrow .



Is there still only one in the UK? & yes I meant the UK & yes I was being serious.

Minimum wage in Portugal has just been raised to €570 a month, the unions had been campaigning for the princely sum of €600!! That's how these companies double man though I must say that I have not noticed any double manned Spanish trucks, usually East European.

Wage rates in Eastern European countries are similar or worse.

 

[tacr2man]

Quite a few of the Eastern trucks only get paid for driving time as well !

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[filopastry]

,Would think only a very small percentage of haulage companies use two drivers,,Not seen a Willie Betz on the road for ages but they employed Bulgarian drivers on terrible wages,BUSBY..

Yep willie is still going and only pays the drivers when the wheels are in motion. If they (two drivers) are parked up for a couple of days then no pay. I have personally done double manning and I HATED it, I only did it when there was no other work through the agencies, the man/woman by your side has your life in their hands, one journey across the A66 with a TWONK driving was enough for me ... never again. There are other "cut throat/cut rate" companies out there but their names elude me at the moment. I believe the Portugeuse and probably Spanish are paid by "route kilometres" that is to say not the actual kilometres travelled but an "agreed" number of kms per run always less than the real kms. This may help explain to you why trucks with the P and ES denominations are driving at or near full speed everywhere. Eastern block Poland, Russia, Rumania and Turkey I believe receive an even worse deal.

 

[filopastry]

I like my suggestion of HGV`s working nights so the roads will be clear in the daytime for all.

I recon you haven't travelled the UK motorways in the dead of night ... the number of trucks would make your eyes pop out, many more and there will be midnight traffic jams ..... HONEST

 

[Mr Chrysalis]

English bus passes are only valid in England -

Similarly, Welsh passes only valid in Wales, Scottish only in Scotland. They can be used on some cross-border journeys, e.g. a Scottish pass can take you to Carlisle.

Well I feel I’ve been swindled now! I understood I could use it anywhere in the UK, but now I’ve checked it is not valid in Scotland or Wales. So when I go there I will have to settle for 33% discount on the railway!

 

[gus-lopez]

I honestly thought you were having a laugh with your post,,Would think only a very small percentage of haulage companies use two drivers,,Not seen a Willie Betz on the road for ages but they employed Bulgarian drivers on terrible wages,, Don't know where you get sheer amount of companies doing double manning,,,,BUSBY..

Yes I hadn't seen much of Willi Betz but came across 2 or 3 last summer. the founder only died a couple of years ago.
Why Primafrio use 2 drivers on some & only 1 on others I've no idea. Quite a few other spanish companies double up but not on the same scale as that company.

Minimum wage in Portugal has just been raised to €570 a month, the unions had been campaigning for the princely sum of €600!! That's how these companies double man though I must say that I have not noticed any double manned Spanish trucks, usually East European.

Wage rates in Eastern European countries are similar or worse.

I only notice them as I usually use the same service areas & I'd have a chat. The last 3 years though the spanish trucks are now being driven by east europeans as they'll work for less money. I was chatting to the neighbour & his brother about it recently.
I've even come across Spanish trucks registered in Rumania last summer.

Yep willie is still going and only pays the drivers when the wheels are in motion. If they (two drivers) are parked up for a couple of days then no pay. I have personally done double manning and I HATED it, I only did it when there was no other work through the agencies, the man/woman by your side has your life in their hands, one journey across the A66 with a TWONK driving was enough for me ... never again. There are other "cut throat/cut rate" companies out there but their names elude me at the moment. I believe the Portugeuse and probably Spanish are paid by "route kilometres" that is to say not the actual kilometres travelled but an "agreed" number of kms per run always less than the real kms. This may help explain to you why trucks with the P and ES denominations are driving at or near full speed everywhere. Eastern block Poland, Russia, Rumania and Turkey I believe receive an even worse deal.

As above, the spanish trucks are now driven by the east europeans last few years.

Even the 'local' vegetable haulage into the factories is now dominated by east european drivers.

 

[Dilbert]

I think willi betz do a lot of runs from military bases in Germany to Iraq and Iran for our army logistics lot. Turkish drivers sometimes wait one or two weeks in the uk for a load back, unpaid poor sods . I had to laugh at the suggestion to have all truck drivers on permanent night shifts ha ha ha. I'm glad I've retired mind you I did go out and buy a motor home . WHY?

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[tonyidle]

This thread is too long for me to keep reading but the one thing that really worried me is the fact that a driver assumes that anything in the carriageway would be lit.
We all know what assuming does!

Correct but every driver does it. What speed would be sensible on an unlit motorway or dual carriageway if we didn't make that assumption? At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway?

 

[tonyidle]

Totally agree .



Oh really , now that would be unusual , their normally quite well driven . However first report was a bemmer .



Ah now and there in lie's the problem . I was taught to alway's expect the unexpected .



Now that's a good point



Sorry , but i totally disagree here , Tony . I alway's look to the nearside kerb with on coming vehicle's , this mean's i avoid being dazzled yet can still see were i'm going . Modern car's are fitted with bright headlight's , in my view too bright . He should have picked something up , and if not i'd question whether parking light's would have made any difference at all . Is there any mention of booze being involved here .



And in kent few and far between , mate .

At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway?

 

[tonyidle]

Strange isn't it i prefer to park closer to the entry, depending on the lay-by and road.
If its a dual carriage way i like to get up to a reasonable speed prior to re entering the dual carriageway.



Rear reflectors normally, skips tend to have cursory reflectors that are good for nothing.

I back up if possible for that purpose. Skips actually have to have lights when used in areas that require vehicles to have parking lights on.

 

[tonyidle]

If he hit it hard enough to kill 3 people yes absolutely.

I suppose you'd blame the inanimate object?

Or the person that left it there.

At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway? And if you hit one are you to blame or the wagon tyre / piece of wood / etc left in the roadway?

 

[tonyidle]

There are numerous houses around the Yorkshire dales that are right at the edge of the road . No pavement, no verge, just road then house wall. Most of these are not lit. However that is not the point. If you hit a stationary object it is your fault. You should always be able to stop in the distance you can see. Inn the case being discussed it would appear the driver could not even stay in the correct position on the road. What if the truck driver had not been in his cab? Would he still be driving carelessly? Maybe he should have had lights on but that doesn’t excuse anyone that hits his stationary truck. What if the truck had broken down and lights would not work. Come on seriously. It is the car drivers fault alone.

At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel at night on an unlit wet motorway or dual carriageway?

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[tonyidle]

Where do you drive???BUSBY.

Don't understand the question?

 

[tonyidle]

That statement is very worrying

Which part? All of it?

 

[tonyidle]

"]At what speed do you enter an empty roadside layby from a busy road in daylight?"

Not at up to 70 mph, slow down on the approach.

"Do you drive at the Highway Code recommended speed at night (no faster than that which allows you to stop within the spread of your dipped headlights)?"

YES!!

No, you don't. And nor does any other driver no matter how good they think they are. I include myself.

Every driver does it. At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway, A road, dual carriageway, at night?

 

[busby]

Correct but every driver does it. What speed would be sensible on an unlit motorway or dual carriageway if we didn't make that assumption? At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway?

40 mph or a speed that i know i can stop in,,SIMPLES,,BUSBY,,

 

[EX51SSS]

Birmingham concept hasn`t alleviated the congestion there because drivers prefer to sit in a traffic jam rather than pay a toll.

It's not the choice of the driver but the company they are working for. Would you expect the driver to pay to use the toll road out of his/her own pocket?

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[EX51SSS]

I like my suggestion of HGV`s working nights so the roads will be clear in the daytime for all

So might as well have 24 hour shops. How can smaller shops and warehouses take deliveries in the night? Yes, put them all on nights but remember, someone has to be there to accept the delivery. Lots are done at night as in the Asda, Tesco and 24/7 warehouses but what about Morrisons, M & S, Sainsburys and the thousands of single shops that have to have deliveries?
Just not feasible

 

[Deleted member 29692]

Or the person that left it there.

At night, to avoid an unlit object in the carriageway, speed would need to be reduced to accommodate the much reduced reaction / braking distance illuminated by dipped headlights. Dipped headlights illuminate the road for no more than 50 metres. The maximum speed that will guarantee a stop within that distance is less than 50mph in the dry and between 30mph and 40mph in the wet. All info taken from the Highway Code and / or UK Driving Test information.

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway? And if you hit one are you to blame or the wagon tyre / piece of wood / etc left in the roadway?

I drive at a speed appropriate to the road and conditions.

If visibility was that bad then yes, I’d be at 30-40 mph on a motorway and have been on many occasions.

A speed limit is just what it says; a limit not a target that must be achieved.

Anyway in this case there’s no suggestion that the wagon was in the carriageway. Look at the Google map shot of the lay-by in question in my previous post. If you think any more than 30-40mph is appropriate either entering or driving through that lay-by I’d like to add my name to the list of people who hope they’re never on the road at the same time as you.

 

[Ivory55]

One thing about all hgv traffic at night is what about the poor people who live on the roads they take. Hgv do not just stay on motorways, the extra noise at night could lead to a lot of sleep deprivation, leading to People being off sick etc.

 

[busby]

Don't understand the question?

Wondered where you drive so i can avoid that area,,BUSBY,,

 

[airwave]

So at what speed do you travel on an unlit wet motorway?

Hmmm , now let me first off , answer that question with a question . When is the most dangerous time to drive on a wet road ?

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