Is it now time to go electric. (1 Viewer)

[nabsim]

And I bet there were people stuck around the dale with their petrol cars for exactly the same reasons. They were fools who didn't plan ahead.

Heat pumps are a different issue.



There is NO waffle on my part. I buy second hand vehicles because that is what I can afford. My current van cost me £2,500 ish. When BEV vans are that price I will buy them in preference to Diesel like a shot. That won't happen for around 10 years, as it will take that long for the 2nd hand market in BEV vans to develop.

Problem then is likely to be battery replacement costs. Who really knows at the moment. Hopefully hydrogen will have overtaken ev’s before then

 

[CazPaul]

And I bet there were people stuck around the dale with their petrol cars for exactly the same reasons. They were fools who didn't plan ahead.

Heat pumps are a different issue.



There is NO waffle on my part. I buy second hand vehicles because that is what I can afford. My current van cost me £2,500 ish. When BEV vans are that price I will buy them in preference to Diesel like a shot. That won't happen for around 10 years, as it will take that long for the 2nd hand market in BEV vans to develop.

Yep, dead same as us, buy second hand ICE vehicles because all we can afford. In about 10 years if we can buy a second hand BEV then we will depending on the current situation at the time.

 

[breeks]

What a load of electric crap talk

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[joe and sue]

A number of years ago I met an old lady when I took my youngest to the play park. She said she no longer had a car - she’d worked out it was cheaper to get a taxi wherever she wanted to go. For some, that may be a sensible option.

Friend of mine lives in Walthamstow, gave up his car 5 years back, uses scooter for work, buses / tube if going into City, and if has a long trip then hires a car, no cost of ownership at all and always has a new car when he does need one, says owning and EV in London would be senseless, for him anyway !

 

[John n Jinny]

seems a fair well educated and informed point we should all take note of, Ill be sure te get a message to the world leaders and greta thunberg....NOT !

I

Why are we even bothered

 

[Gromett]

Problem then is likely to be battery replacement costs.

Likely be no more expensive than an engine replacement now.
Batteries come with 8 year warranties or 100,000 miles. Batteries are getting better and are likely to outlast the car. In the grand scheme of things this is right at the bottom of my list of concerns.

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[CazPaul]

Likely be no more expensive than an engine replacement now.
Batteries come with 8 year warranties or 100,000 miles. Batteries are getting better and are likely to outlast the car. In the grand scheme of things this is right at the bottom of my list of concerns.

Really? But when both you and me have said we will be able to buy an electric car, won’t it already be around 8 years old?

 

[Gaston aires]

You can take a horse to water Phil. The place is just amazing in so many ways. Yesterday I took someone up to a hospital in Highgate. It was an all day jobbi so we had a look around the cemetery and Karl Marx's headstone as well as the area itself just amazing.

My old manor. I went to school in Crouch end. All my family used to live around there, Wood green, Muswell hill, Hornsey, Finsbury Park. All long gone. I often go back to the green lanes area for the best Mediterranean food ever. Greek, Cypriot, Turkish enclave, and at very reasonable prices.
Phil

 

[Miggs]

Have a google around for environmental impact of Lithium mining. It makes EV's one of the biggest "green" hypocrisies of all time, on a par with destroying Borneo to make "Bio-diesel"!

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[RetiredPope]

Really? But when both you and me have said we will be able to buy an electric car, won’t it already be around 8 years old?

What is the guarantee on a new car, 7 years? Does this mean the engine is scrap at that point? No, and batteries will last longer than 8 years. When I bought my 6 year old Nissan Leaf, the battery check showed 0% loss of capacity. Batteries are very dependant on how they are used/charged, which is why there are some EV taxis that have done over 400,000 km on the original batteries.

 

[RetiredPope]

Have a google around for environmental impact of Lithium mining. It makes EV's one of the biggest "green" hypocrisies of all time, on a par with destroying Borneo to make "Bio-diesel"!

Which is why EV batteries that are not re-purposed for secondary use are being recycled into new batteries. Renault have pledged to buy all their used batteries for recycling. It's also why the battery research is looking at alternative materials.
EV's are not completely green and shouldn't be promoted to the extent they are, however, they are cleaner than ICE engines, produce negligible emissions in use, so do not adversely effect the local atmosphere. The more power generated from renewables the cleaner they become to run.
On global pollution, compare the harm from lithium mining with the millions of barrels of oil spilled globally each year. A figure which is difficult to get accurately, but the spills that do get reported are horrendous.

 

[RetiredPope]

Back from holiday for 2 days and already an EV thread

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[nicholsong]

My only vehicle is a near 4t MH.

So the answer to the question in my case is No, because there is no alternative.

My N&B Arto is near 20 years old and going fine with a 2.8Jtd engine.

Nearing year 2030 I might think again, if my 88 year-old brain is up to it

 

[L' Hobo]

A lot of them are armoured Range Rovers. The batteries wouldn't get them far.

New armoured Range Rover Sentinel unveiled | Auto Express

The latest bulletproof Range Rover gets one tonne of armour and a supercharged V8

www.autoexpress.co.uk

Though Boris used to drive an old TOYOTA Previa, just like us.

I know I shouldn't but it does beg the question, what is more important, a Politicians life or a pollution free world???

 

[cyberyacht]

The thing I fear is that when 'per mile charging' comes in to replace the lost revenue from fuel duty, those of us with ICE vehicles will end up paying both.

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[Tonks]

All these fossil fuel deterrents will be coming to a town/city near you AP there is no fighting it. I see fuel at £2 a liter yesterday at what price will you think enough is enough.

But they are clean without pollution. It is the quality of the air we breath that is the point in question. This is the reason for the ulez etc that now extends out to the ring road, it is there to extend the lives of those who live and work in big cities.

They do indeed help the air quality within many Western cities. And good air quality is very important. I'm not knocking it. But at the other end of the manufacturing chain, producing components for EVs is heavily polluting local waterways and land and drastically worsening the lives of many who are affected by the mining for minerals in particular.
Tests done some years ago on EV v ICE vehicles showed that the overall pollution of the EV was far more significant than all the ads would have you believe.
Then there's also the issue, conveniently largely ignored, of the tremendously wasteful and polluting route of scrapping all the perfectly sound and well maintained cars which are being/will be disposed of for EVs.

Just what I was saying to an elderly relative recently, tax, insurance, fuel depreciation, you could get a taxi into town and back each day and it would be cheaper than running a car, but it’s the independence they cling to, plus they feel defeated when the day comes to stop driving.

If you're like me and suffer severely from motion sickness, the idea of paying to sit in a taxi or on a rural bus route and feel ill isn't appealing at all.

 

[Tonks]

I spent last Saturday at the UK Tesla Owners Club meet at Bicester Heritage, as part of the Mission Motorsport team who were running the track element of the day. I drove there in my 2.5l diesel van, which was then parked up with other 'undesirables' 'some distance' from the EVs!

Afterwards, as a little 'curiosity exercise' I worked out the costs v benefits of buying a new electric car and discovered I'd have to drive around 120,000 miles before the investment was recouped (based on buying the EV, not leasing) against continuing to drive my fully paid for ICE car, even if fuel costs double. My mileage use just doesn't justify buying electric, even if I could afford to buy one (I definitely can't afford another monthly cost, either). And the constant cries of 'it's better for the environment' get very wearying, considering that it's very clear that electric cars are far from green, if you factor in manufacturing (at all stages, not just in the car build factory), disposal, and the amount of electricity which is NOT green generated.

I will, however, grant you that they can certainly shift from a standing start! It was weird being next to a track with the only noise being the cars fans and tyre squeal. There were also several times when people would certainly have been in danger of being run over in a real world environment. Given that they all knew they were at an ev day, it was surprising how many people stepped out into the road without looking at all...

When I drove off site to go home, the 'outside world' roads seemed very noisy after a day of watching electric cars.

 

[PaulyP]

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[sylvester1954]

I spent the day in London yesterday, it is a fantastic place to spend a day in an EV. Special Parking for EVs, charging for EVs no congestion for EVs. It is like the old days. So is it time to go electric? Not just cars, motorbikes too . Proper motorbikes big jobbies all electric, they don't make a sound as they fly through the traffic and some of the very expensive kit the riders whare is sooooo.. futuristic. Is it now time to go electric or should we wait a little longer.

I would hedge my bets so to speak and go plugin/hybrid.
The apparent lack of recharge points around the country/Europe coupled with the chance of battery drain when stranded in a road closure possibly supports my comments?

 

[jockaneezer]

You know when we got forced off tungsten element incandescent light bulbs onto those crappy, took ages to warm up, flickery, curly, too big for you lampshade, fluorescent lamps, that were five times the price, that we had to suffer, but we were saving the planet, that's where BEV's are now. I'm gonna wait for the led version of the car to come out !

 

[Ninjabob]

You know when we got forced off tungsten element incandescent light bulbs onto those crappy, took ages to warm up, flickery, curly, too big for you lampshade, fluorescent lamps, that we had to suffer, that's where BEV's are now. I'm gonna wait for the led version of the car to come out !

Very good analogy

My thinking in buying the Toyota is that the CH-R uses the same basic chassis/drivetrain as the Prius/Corolla and no Hybrid car on the planet has done so many test miles as that platform (think Private Hire vehicles Uber etc.). Toyota offers fixed price servicing and if you continue to have it serviced by them that extends the warranty to 10years and 15years on the battery. I shall be 84 by then and will care not one not jot for what comes next

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[Wanderlust]

I think its very situational, I have a rav4 plug in hybrid, gets me to work and back every day on 1 charge (34 miles round trip), fast charger fitted free with vehicle, I have only managed 750 miles in it so far so way too early to tell how much I'll save. It has a 10 year warranty 100,00 miles and 15 years on the batteries, being a Toyota I have planned to keep this for the ten years. Petrol tank still 75% full as only been in petrol/hybrid for 1 run to Edinburgh and back (240 miles)where we managed 67mpg on the way up and 64mpg on the way back, I was by no means driving like miss daisy either.

 

[Gromett]

Problem then is likely to be battery replacement costs. Who really knows at the moment. Hopefully hydrogen will have overtaken ev’s before then

I won't touch a hydrogen vehicle with a long pole. Too complicated, potentially dangerous and will ALWAYS be more expensive to run than a BEV.
Thankfully battery replacement costs won't be an issue for a multitude of reasons.

 

[Gromett]

Really? But when both you and me have said we will be able to buy an electric car, won’t it already be around 8 years old?

The manufacturers give an 8 year warranty. They do not pack in on 8 years +1 day. The 8 years indicates the manufacturer is confident that they will last much longer than 8 years.

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[CazPaul]

The manufacturers give an 8 year warranty. They do not pack in on 8 years +1 day. The 8 years indicates the manufacturer is confident that they will last much longer than 8 years.

Yes I know but it will be the main thing to check though in the future if buying a second hand one 8-10 years old.

 

[Gromett]

Yes I know but it will be the main thing to check though in the future if buying a second hand one 8-10 years old.

In the same way that you drive a car to check it's gear box and engine is running ok before buying.
Except the battery will be much easier to check.

 

[pappajohn]

Another 8 years before the deadline for ice engines.
A further 20 to 30 years before the majority of ice cars are in the scrapyard.
A lot can happen to battery technology in 8 years.
I would wait 8 years.

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[joe and sue]

Another 8 years before the deadline for ice engines.
A further 20 to 30 years before the majority of ice cars are in the scrapyard.
A lot can happen to battery technology in 8 years.
I would wait 8 years.

That deadline only applies to cars, and my guess is that it will be extended!!

 

[robmilton]

So electricity is free ? Aint goin to be cheap any time soon ! And when the battery,s fail the vehicle will be worthless.