Cars on A-frames in the EU - Fined or not? (1 Viewer)

[Gorse Hill]

Where is Momo, not seen her on here for ages. hope she is well.

She was mooching about last tues, hopefully she's ok

 

[eddie]

My Mates Uncle said he was stopped in Spain And he wasn't even towing!

He wasn't gassed either

 

[vwalan]

unfortunately we didnt see her this winter. it was on the plan but in the end we didnt . missed her last year as well as she went up to madrid to see family.
i have seen posts by her i think while i was away.
we ended up rushing through valencia as a friend had been broken into and we motored on to help them.

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[jollyrodger]

Have had €40 fine after aging it down from €180 (no over run break cable ) Lleida ,yet have suspend towed a motorbike without any problems maybe just luck .

 

[vwalan]

i carry a copy of the regs in spanish and a copy in catalan . also english.
i find most guardia and police local ok . yet still there are some that have never seen the regs .
we just abide by the regs and will offer argument if they cant give a real proper reason .
this year had one telling us that three m,homes parked together was illegal. made a campsite .
a m,home is a car ,so carparks with 200 spaces must be illegal as well. after talking with his boss on a radio he left us alone .

 

[Minxy]

also vehicles over 3.5ton if parked on a slope have wedges put under the wheels .
all explained in the 08/v 74 regs .
the regs were put on here by momo years ago.
we in fact had them well before most of the guardia civil had even seen them .
i even had the guardia civil office in aguilas ring the interiour ministers office once after being taken in for camping when i was parking . they had never seen the 08/v 74 regs . i had a copy and definately shoved it in their faces . got released with an apology.

Do you know where to find the regs so we can make a copy of them for when we go to Spain again at the end of the year?

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[vwalan]

i just tried a search on here but got nothing . tried a google . there are some on there .
momo put spanish and catalan on here possibly in 08-09.
i,m sure someone more computer able will put them on .Broken Link Removed
try that.

 

[Judge Mental]

To answer the OP question.
Yes, I have Aframed throughout Europe including Spain for many years.

No, I have never been pulled over for using an Aframe.

No, I have never been fined for using an Aframe.

Yes, I do personally know people that have been fined for using an Aframe in Spain.

No, I do not Aframe now as it has been made perfectly clear to me that although some take a chance in Spain, its against there laws, but that is entirely there choice.

Yes, there is a good chance that if you Aframe in the Basque, Barcelona or Alicante regions of Spain you will get pulled over for using an Aframe.

Yes, if you were involved in any form of accident whilst using an Aframe in Spain regardless of who was at fault, there is a good chance you will go to prison. I now consider myself to old for doing time in any prison, least of all a Spanish one.

Agree very sensible! On our visits to Beni I have spoken to many with A framers on site. I saw them every year for past 3. The majority have been fined the minority not. Some multiply fined. one chap who now leaves the car in Beni permently as has been fined twice and simply does not want the grief. So wake up and smell the coffee and stop deluding yourselves!lol


Its your call......in the words of Alester Crowely "Do what though wilt" but be prepared to live with the consequences

 

[MicknPat]

Followed by grey water dumping

Then wind breakers on pitches, finally ??? Barking Dogs.

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[Minxy]

Agree very sensible! On our visits to Beni I have spoken to many with A framers on site. I saw them every year for past 3. The majority have been fined the minority not. Some multiply fined. one chap who now leaves the car in Beni permently as has been fined twice and simply does not want the grief. So wake up and smell the coffee and stop deluding yourselves!lol


Its your call......in the words of Alester Crowely "Do what though wilt" but be prepared to live with the consequences

Eddie, perhaps you would like to also post the above on the Smart Car thread too as there's no point in me doing so as I'm being ignored!

 

[Snowbird]

This is the way I see it. Whether you think it is legal or not has no bearing in Spain. If you are involved in an accident whether it be your fault or not will not matter. The old Arab way of thinking will come into force. That is, had you not been there, the accident would not have happened. If anyone is killed in that accident, the Spanish will nail your hat on for a very long time. Before Aframing in Spain, ask yourself the question...How lucky do I feel today .

 

[eddie]

The trouble is it is impossible to nail this down

I have towed, a Dihatsu Terios, when needed, since 2007 we bought the Terios as it is sold in the states as ideal for towing, and before we ordered it Dihatsu wrote to us saying that we could tow it on an "A" frame, in fact in the handbook it mentions it, and what to do.

I have taken it to France, to Italy and to Spain

No one has ever taken any notice

Logic and common sense tell me in my heart of hearts it is illegal, and when the authorities get round to it it will be resolved

To any one that thinks it becomes a trailer when on a "A" frame, try parking it on the road, hooked up, with no MOT, Tax or insurance and arguing it's a trailer

As for trying to establish "what's what" like many, I regularly drive in traffic on the motorway, in excess of 70MPH. the fact that I don't get stopped, doesn't mean it is, or isn't legal

I try hard not to take the car, as it can be a pain not being able to reverse. I often tow a 27' boat on a trailer behind the camper, which I'd rather tow. When the Terios pops its clogs, I would by a small trail, should we feel we wanted to carry on taking a car from time to time.

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[Xabia]

What people in the UK don't seem to grasp is that it's not the A frame per se that is the problem - it's towing another vehicle. This is illegal in Spain. You can't just hitch up a broken down vehicle and tow it home like you can in the UK, it must go on a Grau - breakdown truck. The insurance on the car I keep at my house in Spain includes breakdown cover which is a standard inclusion in Spanish motor insurance policies.

Mike

 

[olley]

I think this is @Momo post: http://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum...-comunicat-03-2008-transit.14599/#post-179946

 

[vwalan]

hi olley that is the catalan version there is a spanish one before that one . i think you may have done a google translation on the spanish one if my memory is right.

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[eddie]

Eddie, perhaps you would like to also post the above on the Smart Car thread too as there's no point in me doing so as I'm being ignored!

But you said in your first post, so why would y want to do that?

"So can we have actual facts from anyone who has experienced this - also, if anyone else has first hand knowledge that it has happened to someone they know and the final outcome that would be good too, but please NO "my mate, knows of a man with a one-legged dog who was in X country a decade ago and got fined".

Agree very sensible! On our visits to Beni I have spoken to many with A framers on site. I saw them every year for past 3. The majority have been fined the minority not. Some multiply fined. one chap who now leaves the car in Beni permently as has been fined twice and simply does not want the grief. So wake up and smell the coffee and stop deluding yourselves!lol

As for you being ignored, I just think that no one can can prove that towing a car, using a A frame is legal, but there again no one can prove that it is illegal

Just loads of opinions, and the great thing about Motorhome FUN is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I just think that people are being polite lol

 

[olley]

hi olley that is the catalan version there is a spanish one before that one . i think you may have done a google translation on the spanish one if my memory is right.

Are the regs likely to be different between Catalan and Spanish Alan?

 

[vwalan]

Are the regs likely to be different between Catalan and Spanish Alan?

no . but having them in both plus english helps .
some dont accept spanish as we know it . plus spanish police cant always under stand catalan.
bit like me using cornish others using welsh etc .
i will try and find them as both sets are signed by important people . mind the interior minister as changed now . but the originals still work and some have all the right headed letter stuff . looks real official.

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[Judge Mental]

But you said in your first post, so why would y want to do that?

"So can we have actual facts from anyone who has experienced this - also, if anyone else has first hand knowledge that it has happened to someone they know and the final outcome that would be good too, but please NO "my mate, knows of a man with a one-legged dog who was in X country a decade ago and got fined".




As for you being ignored, I just think that no one can can prove that towing a car, using a A frame is legal, but there again no one can prove that it is illegal

Just loads of opinions, and the great thing about Motorhome FUN is that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so I just think that people are being polite lol

Not so in UK use has to be tested in court to become either legal or illegal, our system works on statute law tested in court.

Europe different as they operate versions of Napoleonic law. Where unless proven legal it's illegal?

I have spoken to these people face to face on site..first hand knowledge! Do you honestly think i made it up...that's insulting but typical

While this the best motorhome forum by far not everyone is a member so opinions and evidence limited. .

Now we come to car type approval? Surely if you add a steel bar with nuts removable or not and are involved in a pedestrian accident you will get hammered!

FYI years ago I ended up with a young girl on my bonnet as she blindly ran out in front of me because she saw friends on other side of road. Thankfully she was uninjured!

Eddie

 

[Chris]

What's the difference between unlawful and illegal in Spain?




































Unlawful is against the laws of Spain.

Illegal is a big sick bird in the mountains of Andalucia

 

[Judge Mental]

What's the difference between unlawful and illegal in Spain?




































Unlawful is against the laws of Spain.

Illegal is a big sick bird in the mountains of Andalucia

Some light relief....

When I was younger me and friends had to run for it over a fracas in a Dubrovnik night club over you guessed it girls....


Of we went in our old battered Vdub van. We where driving through a wooded road and came across a massive eagle who had grabbed pray in the middle of road. When we caught it in our headlights it took one flap and it was gone!. It's wingspan was as wide as the blooming road! That memory has stayed fresh with me for over 40 years

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[scotjimland]

What's the difference between unlawful and illegal in Spain?

all depends whether before or after noon .. when the Guardia Civil have had their liquid lunch

 

[eddie]

I have spoken to these people face to face on site..first hand knowledge! Do you honestly think i made it up...that's insulting but typical

Typical? Why do people get rude when they are losing an arguement?

The OP clearly stated FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES no third party tales

You have never been fined for towing with an A Frame.

I don't know if you made it up or not, I have no evidence one way or the other, but I would think that it would be a pretty pointless thing to make up, so to keep you happy, let's agree you didn't

Now, how do we prove that the people you spoke to we're genuine, or re-telling other people's experiences

This is the problem, this is why the OP asked for First hand experiences only

No offence was intended, but if you wish to take offence, please feel free

Not sure why you would need to say that you had a girl over your bonnet, what's that got to do with A Frames

 

[Judge Mental]

Typical? Why do people get rude when they are losing an arguement? The OP clearly stated FIRST HAND EXPERIENCES no third party tales

You have never been fined for towing with an A Frame.

I don't know if you made it up or not, I have no evidence one way or the other, but I would think that it would be a pretty pointless thing to make up, so to keep you happy, let's agree you didn't . No how do we prove that the people you spoke to we're genuine, or re-telling other people's experiences

This is the problem, this is why the OP asked for First hand experiences only

No offence was intended, but I you wish to take offence, please feel free

Not sure why you would need to say that you had a girl over your bonnet, what's that got to do with A Frames

You call me rude?...interesting!lol

Let's agree to disagree eh? Contrary to your insulting attitude all opinions valid

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[Snowbird]

I do seem to remember Brian who helped Jim set up this site being pulled and fined several years ago in Spain. It was around this time I decided to give up Aframing after dragging various toads from up above the Arctic circle down into the Sahara desert. A frames, like grey water and gassing threads have kept this forum active for years. Long may these many threads on the subject pop up for further discussion. Am outa this one before it goes down the same route as the rest of em .

 

[Judge Mental]

I do seem to remember Brian who helped Jim set up this site being pulled and fined several years ago in Spain. It was around this time I decided to give up Aframing after dragging various toads from up above the Arctic circle down into the Sahara desert. A frames, like grey water and gassing threads have kept this forum active for years. Long may these many threads on the subject pop up for further discussion. Am outa this one before it goes down the same route as the rest of em .

That not good enough as not first hand knowledge

That was a joke for those in denial

 

[iandsm]

With due respect to the OP if I were to need information on the legalities of something I was intending to do in another country are there not better ways to get accurate information than debate on a forum, which by its very nature will bring forth opposing views. In this case what's wrong with contacting the Spannish Toursist Board or in the UK the Spanish Embassy. They want the tourist euro and I am sure would be helpful. The bonus is if the request is done via email the resultant reply would be a great thing to show to an official in Spain who thinks you are committing some offence. When in fact you are complying with the letter of the law which you just happen to have in your hand.

Or am I being to simplistic

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[vwalan]

the trouble there is spanish govt just say its illegal in spain .
they dont acknowledge the vienna rules .
there are lots rules that eu rules over ride the countries rules .
even uk doesnt follow the rules it should some times . we do have to watch the watchers sometimes .

 

[Larrynwin]

From the many extensive Aframe threads on this forum which have included quotes from documents detailing Spanish law on towing , I have no doubt that towing a car with an Aframe in Spain is against Spanish law.
I have not seen quotes of legislation relating to Aframe towing for other EU countries.
As far as UK legislation is concerned quotes from DVLA/DVSA/VOSA have appeared on threads on this forum and if those recommendations are adhered to the law would not be broken.
In view of this it is my choice and I am comfortable in towing with an AFrame in the UK only.

 

[Judge Mental]

the trouble there is spanish govt just say its illegal in spain .
they dont acknowledge the vienna rules .
there are lots rules that eu rules over ride the countries rules .
even uk doesnt follow the rules it should some times . we do have to watch the watchers sometimes .

Sorry but Vienna rules don't apply as nothing in UK statute law exists...

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