Wiring for Citroen C1 as a TOAD

[Abacist]

I completed the installation of my Armitage A frame today by wiring in the 7 core cable into the car's lighting circuit which is not a Can Bus system. All the lights worked as expected when connected to my Audi car which I used to test the towing and to adjust the brake cable as required. After about a 20 mile circuit stopping off at lay-bys to check and adjust the brakes I got home to find the TOAD battery flat! Clearly I have back feed from the TOAD. I have since researched to find out that the Citroen braking lights circuit is permanently on live feed even when the ignition is off. My conclusion is that I need to fit a diode on the brake circuit to prevent current from the TOAD trying to power the towing vehicle!

Does that sound right or has anyone got any alternative thoughts?

 

[2 Jabs]

My tow cable has one pin wired as live to charge the toad battery. Sorry, not sure which pin it is.

 

[Abacist]

My tow cable has one pin wired as live to charge the toad battery. Sorry, not sure which pin it is.

I have used the Armitage wiring instructions precisely and none of the 7 wires is allocated to feed the TOAD battery. I can't believe any of the wires in the 7 core cable is man enough to contribute any charge to the TOAD battery. I imagine that your TOAD battery feed cable must have a diode on it to prevent any flow the wrong way. Mind you my understanding of electrics is pretty basic hence my query in the first place!

 

[pappajohn]

Yes, a diode in the tow car feed.

Hang on a Mo....
The cars brake wiring to the lights is dead until the cars brake pedal is pressed to make the circuit.
The only way it can feed back is if its BEFORE the pedal switch.....the live side.

Are you making connections at the fuse box?

 

[pappajohn]

Just realised something else.
You say the brake circuit is live without ignition.
. In that case you don't need a wire from van to car, the brake lights will work directly from the car brake pedal..... Providing you have an overrun A frame.
If you have electronic braked a frame.

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[Derbyshire wanderer]

Has the battery died due to the ignition being on to release the steering lock?

 

[Sheddy]

I have toad a C1 with the Armatidge unit for 10 years and on a few occasions flattened the battery by leaving the ignition key in the wrong position, now carry jump leads in the back of the car.

 

[Abacist]

Yes, a diode in the tow car feed.

Hang on a Mo....
The cars brake wiring to the lights is dead until the cars brake pedal is pressed to make the circuit.
The only way it can feed back is if its BEFORE the pedal switch.....the live side.

Are you making connections at the fuse box?

Hi pappajohn

I have wired the 7 core cable into the boot of the C1 where the cable goes off to feed all of the rear lights though the front side lights and indicator lights are also working which I didn't think was a bad thing. The ignition in the C1 is definitely off. I haven't been anywhere near the C1 fusebox. Perhaps the bungee cord is not strong enough to ensure the brake pedal is returning right back to "off" or I have the brakes adjusted a tad too tight engaging the brake pedal switch? I need to get it sorted quickly as we are off to the Norden Farm Rally on Monday! I wouldn't have expected the battery to be knackered by the brake lights being on over 20 miles so I think the diode is essential. The Armitage instructions said there would need to be diodes if it was a Can Bus system but its not!

 

[Abacist]

Has the battery died due to the ignition being on to release the steering lock?

No - no ignition lights showing on the TOAD dash but thanks for the thought.

 

[Abacist]

I have toad a C1 with the Armatidge unit for 10 years and on a few occasions flattened the battery by leaving the ignition key in the wrong position, now carry jump leads in the back of the car.

I do carry jump leads on the Moho but concerned that the TOAD car battery might go flat when we are out and about independently of the Moho.

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[Sheddy]

I do carry jump leads on the Moho but concerned that the TOAD car battery might go flat when we are out and about independently of the Moho.

A cheap starter pack in the car may offer some reassurance.
Edit:
From your post above you reminded me, I also experienced the brakes remaining on poor adjustment of the cable and later the Bowden cable sticking even with the frame off and the stirrup on the brake pedal still connected, it did flatten the battery.

 

[Abacist]

Just realised something else.
You say the brake circuit is live without ignition.
. In that case you don't need a wire from van to car, the brake lights will work directly from the car brake pedal..... Providing you have an overrun A frame.
If you have electronic braked a frame.

Yes its only an overrun A frame. My only concern with that would be the drain on the TOAD car battery if its flattened in only 20 miles!

 

[Wikky]

I believe the more modern connection (12 way?) Is requured to provide a charging lead to the TOAD battery.
We had an Armitages A frame connected to a Suzuki Swift Sport and there were diodes installed in the car. Don't know where as Armitages installed it. All I know is that the over-run A frame weighed a ton and needed a weight lifter to carry it off the car. The cable stuck a few times and heated the car's brakes

 

[Derbyshire wanderer]

No - no ignition lights showing on the TOAD dash but thanks for the thought.

It would be worth both checking the toad battery condition and the actual current drain when connected to the tow vehicle.
Assuming the toad battery is about 60Ah and in good condition the load to flatten in such a short time would be well over 30 amps which would blow the fuse in the majority of potential circuits

 

[Abacist]

A cheap starter pack in the car may offer some reassurance.

Great idea - just ordered one off Amazon for delivery tomorrow!

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[Abacist]

I believe the more modern connection (12 way?) Is requured to provide a charging lead to the TOAD battery.
We had an Armitages A frame connected to a Suzuki Swift Sport and there were diodes installed in the car. Don't know where as Armitages installed it. All I know is that the over-run A frame weighed a ton and needed a weight lifter to carry it off the car. The cable stuck a few times and heated the car's brakes

That's not a problem as the van socket is the modern German combined plug and I have a splitter separating the towing element from the caravan/habitation element which I could wire up to charge the TOAD battery.

 

[Abacist]

It would be worth both checking the toad battery condition and the actual current drain when connected to the tow vehicle.
Assuming the toad battery is about 60Ah and in good condition the load to flatten in such a short time would be well over 30 amps which would blow the fuse in the majority of potential circuits

Good point!

 

[Abacist]

All I know is that the over-run A frame weighed a ton and needed a weight lifter to carry it off the car.

I bought the Armitage A frame and all the bits for £375 so its a cheap way into trying out towing a car rather than having to pay a £2k premium on top of the price of a car to get a TOAD. I quite like the Armitage in that it is certainly a beefy towing unit. I tend to over engineer stuff myself to be on the safe side so that's OK with me and the weight and size is not a problem at present.