WiFi external and internal aerials using adapters. (1 Viewer)

[Hettie's Crew]

I currently have a Panorama roof antenna with x2 mobile x2 WiFi leads and have all leads connected to my router (Teltonika RUT950).
Therefore I’m not using the supplied WiFi antennas on the router internally. I’m wondering if better WiFi coverage could be had by using adapters to connect both the WiFi leads from the antenna and the router WiFi aerials.

 

[Bees1000]

Hi,
Interesting question - do you want better connectivity, better WiFi or just to use all the aerials you have? I'm interested in the adapters you are planning to use. I'm not an RF engineer, so I'd worry about potential interaction of the antennae affecting resonance and directivity, and whether the different gain structure might not be good for the output circuitry of the Teltonika. If you aren't getting the coverage you want, I'd suggest getting a set of good discrete external aerials for LTE and WiFi.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

These are the type of connections I was thinking of.

SMA Male to two SMA Female T Connector Adapter Splitter Connector x1 UK Seller | eBay

1x SMA - Female to Twin - SMA Male Connector Adapter T Splitter. 1x SMA Female to Twin SMA Male T Connector.

www.ebay.co.uk

I don’t have any issues with coverage from the WiFi when using phone, pads, laptop or streaming Netflix etc, the Panorama Great White antenna has been excellent, as has the router. I just thought it may be possible to make the internal WiFi coverage even better.
I also wondered if just using the supplied Teltonika stick aerials instead of connecting to the antenna is better.
I don’t understand the suggestion of additional external LTE/Wifi aerials when I already have the excellent Panorama LPMDM 6 60.

 

[Bees1000]

Given those connections would simply connect two potentially different antennae without any balancing, I guess you have two options: try it and see, or ask a RF engineer whether it's a good idea. But you can't get more bandwidth out of your connection than it can deliver, so unless you want to use your motorhome WiFi when you are quite a long way from the vehicle I doubt the 802.11n is your bottleneck.
I suggested alternative external aerials as, if the existing 4G one isn't doing the job, there are options like the Fullband MIMORAD which give 8dB gain (LPMDM 6 60 has 5), or this sort of thing:

https://www.broadbandbuyer.com/products/37640-poynting-5g-xpol-a0002/

I have a RUT950 and run with the supplied sticks, which gives me all the WiFi I need and scrapes pretty good data from the air even when I can't get any on my phone.

 

[CAB96]

I currently have a Panorama roof antenna with x2 mobile x2 WiFi leads and have all leads connected to my router (Teltonika RUT950).
Therefore I’m not using the supplied WiFi antennas on the router internally. I’m wondering if better WiFi coverage could be had by using adapters to connect both the WiFi leads from the antenna and the router WiFi aerials.

I'm not sure I understand?

Presumably the Panorama roof antenna is a 4g antenna to connect to the mobile network?

And so the Teltonika router will be connected to the Panorama for the mobile signal, then broadcasting the WiFi through the van? So you are using the Teltonika WiFi antenna?

I can't see that you will improve the WiFi signal in the van, you can't be more than 7 or 8 metres from the router. It is the mobile network speed that will determine the overall speed.

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

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[Kannon Fodda]

Is the WiFi part of the external aerial not for connection to a nearby third party wifi, such as a campsite system?

 

[Hettie's Crew]

I'm not sure I understand?

Presumably the Panorama roof antenna is a 4g antenna to connect to the mobile network?

And so the Teltonika router will be connected to the Panorama for the mobile signal, then broadcasting the WiFi through the van? So you are using the Teltonika WiFi antenna?

I can't see that you will improve the WiFi signal in the van, you can't be more than 7 or 8 metres from the router. It is the mobile network speed that will determine the overall speed.

Apologies if I have misunderstood.

Is the WiFi part of the external aerial not for connection to a nearby third party wifi, such as a campsite system?

This is what I’m not entirely clear about. My understanding is that the router receives the mobile signal through the roof antenna, obviously. Then the output comes out of the router through the wifi connection/leads to the roof antenna and broadcast to be picked up by my devices.
As I am inside 9 times out of ten, would it not be better to have the WiFi stick aerials attached to the router so the WiFi signal is broadcast mostly inside.
I used to think the WiFi part of the antenna was as Kannon Fodda said for picking up WiFi signals.

 

[Lenny HB]

Is the WiFi part of the external aerial not for connection to a nearby third party wifi, such as a campsite system?

Yep, no point in wasting an extra 50 quid on a MIMO aerial with WiFi aerials unless you are going to buy a very expensive router with the capability of accepting the signal.

The WiFi connections on the RUT950 are for broadcasting the WiFi signal.
If Hettie's Crew connects them as suggested all he will achieve is broadcasting his WiFi signal to everyone else's in the area.

I've seen idiots on YouTube connecting this way. Never believe anything on YouTube until you have checked the facts

 

[Kannon Fodda]

My Huawei router doesn't have WiFi aerial connections. But it has options for connection to mobile data 4g, WiFi as in campsite, and then creates it's own WiFi metwork locally to allow my devices to connect via that local WiFi to Internet off the 4g or campsite WiFi.

But without aerial, my router can't currently connect to the campsite WiFi, as Faraday cage effect blocks the signal.

 

[Hettie's Crew]

The WiFi connections on the RUT950 are for broadcasting the WiFi signal.

So, assuming this is correct is it better to ignore the WiFi leads to the antenna and just use the antenna stick aerials on the router. RUTX11 now rather than the RUT950.

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[autorouter]

The only situation when you will get an improved signal inside the MH is if for example the roof is metal and is slightly blocking the wifi signal from the roof-mounted aerial. In that case, if you were only using the RUT950 wifi to connect devices to it (ie not trying to set up communication with a campsite/cafe wifi) you could remove the wifi aerial leads and fit the supplied wifi stub aerials.

Note that if you wanted to try a splitter, the one you linked to is the wrong one for the wifi sockets. If you look closely you will see that the wifi sockets have a pin in the centre, whereas the mobile aerial sockets have a hole in the centre. So the wifi ones are (oh no... ) reverse polarity types. Search for RP SMA splitter to get the one you want. I would imagine that the splitter would not improve the overall signal, and very likely would reduce it.

Edit: RUTX11 is the same, that's the one I've got.

Your RUT950/RUTX11 has the ability to connect to a campsite wifi (a WAN connection), and also connect your devices within/near the MH (a LAN connection). But if you don't intend to use the wifi WAN option, the supplied aerials will be fine for local wifi LAN.

 

[wfdTamar]

Always hard to know how much a reader knows, so excuse if you know all this.

What kind of wifi signal strength do your devices show? If it's not full strength I'd be amazed. I'd try the little stick antennas just to see what happens. I wouldn't think it will make much difference to the wifi leads from the rooftop antenna though as either will give a great signal at the short distances inside a van. It would make a difference if you're using them to receive wifi (as in camp site wifi), but that would most likely be very slow anyway.

If download speed is your issue then the factors are mobile signal strength, mobile network carrier, 4G vs 5G, antenna gain and type (omni directional vs directional).
1. 5G will be better IF you're within range of a 5G signal, but it doesn't travel as far as 4G. A decent 4G signal will do anything required.

2. You can go for a better antenna (either stronger or directional, but then you need to point it at the tower).

3. Change sim, or add a second sim from a different network.

4. Change modem to a 4x4 MIMO.

On my UK Hymer I was using a Huawei 4G 535 home modem with a Poynting 2x2 omnidirectional antenna (puck type) which worked ok. This year I have a Cudy P5 dual sim 5G 4x4 MIMO modem and I've added a second 2x2 Poynting antenna. The Cudy is half the price of the Teltonika equivalent. It works, but I don't think the software is as good as what the Teltonika's looks like (I've never tried a Teltonika though). For example the automatic fallover from one sim to the other doesn't seem to work and there's hardly any software control of it.

On my Hymer at home (Australia) I have a Poynting 2x2 puck and a 2x2 directional antenna I mount on a mast that I can point at the tower. That's more hassle to set up, but does receive the signal better.

5G SA/NSA AX3000 Wi-Fi 6 Router, Model: P5-Cudy: WiFi, 4G, and 5G Equipments and Solutions

 

[JohnH17]

Sorry to butt in, but there seems to have been something missed, and that's the impedance. That 1-in-2-out connector is really a bad idea! It might improve reception a bit, eg on short wave, with two long antennas at 90deg, but if you're transmitting (tx) it's a disaster. So as I understand it the RUT950 is a dual-sim unit with fail-over between the two. So it needs two separate antennas, and if you're trying to reach the GSM network the roof is the obvious place to put them. If you've an earthed metal ground plane for the roof then typically a quarter-wave whip works well. If you haven't then an antenna can still work but it'll be a different design - hopefully whoever fitted them originally took this into account. But what you never do is parallel up two antennas - the impedance'll be all wrong. Apologies if you all know this, maybe someone doesn't? Normally for commercial kit (not tellys, they're 75ohm), the transmitter output is 50 ohm, matched to a 50 ohm antenna - this gives maximum tx output power . If you parallel two antennas the 50 ohm output will see a 25 ohm load - this is bad as some of the tx power is reflected back down the cable into the tx output stages, and without protection can damage it.
So, for me, I'd connect the two GSM connections to the two roof antennas. The same reasoning applies to the wifi, but since the distance is less, I'd use the two little supplied antennas for effective use inside the mhome. But, once again, please don't try paralleling the roof and internal antennas! Hope this all makes some sense - as I keep telling Margaret, I know what I mean.... cheers

 

[Swiss]

So, assuming this is correct is it better to ignore the WiFi leads to the antenna and just use the antenna stick aerials on the router. RUTX11 now rather than the RUT950.

This is correct, you want the Wi-Fi aerials inside the van, otherwise you are inside a Faraday cage (if your van is of metal construction).

 

[autorouter]

This is correct, you want the Wi-Fi aerials inside the van, otherwise you are inside a Faraday cage (if your van is of metal construction).

It's not a very good Faraday cage - the wavelength of a 2.4GHz wifi signal is about 12cm, so it will easily pass through any apertures like the windscreen and other windows. In contrast to DAB radio, which at 225MHz has a wavelength of 1.3m, so might struggle to get through most windows.

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[Headrush]

This is what I’m not entirely clear about. My understanding is that the router receives the mobile signal through the roof antenna, obviously. Then the output comes out of the router through the wifi connection/leads to the roof antenna and broadcast to be picked up by my devices.
As I am inside 9 times out of ten, would it not be better to have the WiFi stick aerials attached to the router so the WiFi signal is broadcast mostly inside.
I used to think the WiFi part of the antenna was as Kannon Fodda said for picking up WiFi signals.

The roof antenna picks up 4G or 5G phone signals. It's not intended or suitable for broadcasting WiFi. Your router should have it's own (usually attached) antennae for broadcasting WiFi.
Mobile phone signals and WiFi are completely different things working on different wavelengths.

 

[Swiss]

It's not a very good Faraday cage - the wavelength of a 2.4GHz wifi signal is about 12cm, so it will easily pass through any apertures like the windscreen and other windows. In contrast to DAB radio, which at 225MHz has a wavelength of 1.3m, so might struggle to get through most windows.

It was a just simplistic answer, only a noddy would expect to receive a quality reliable signal while sat inside a metal box with the transmission aerial on the outside of it, no matter how may holes are in it! I forgot to mention, I'm a qualified audio visual electronics engineer, one of my specialist areas is RF reception and distribution with 43 years in the trade, so no need to offer any technical explanations.

 

[DBK]

I currently have a Panorama roof antenna with x2 mobile x2 WiFi leads and have all leads connected to my router (Teltonika RUT950).
Therefore I’m not using the supplied WiFi antennas on the router internally. I’m wondering if better WiFi coverage could be had by using adapters to connect both the WiFi leads from the antenna and the router WiFi aerials.

You can connect the WiFi cables from the antenna to the WiFi sockets on the back of the router. There's a link below to a Poynting video demonstrating this. However, I suspect this isn't what you should do in a vehicle but it will do no harm if you want to give it a go and see what sort of reception you get inside and outside.

I suspect the idea of the WiFi antenna is for use on say a building site where it might be mounted on the roof of a Portacabin where it would send out a WiFi signal to the surrounding area.

 

[autorouter]

The roof antenna picks up 4G or 5G phone signals. It's not intended or suitable for broadcasting WiFi. Your router should have it's own (usually attached) antennae for broadcasting WiFi.
Mobile phone signals and WiFi are completely different things working on different wavelengths.

That depends on the model of the roof antenna. Some have only 4G cellphone, some 4G + 5G cellphone, some have wifi 2.4GHz and/or 5GHz antennae also. Some even have a GPS antenna as well. Some also have 2 or 4 antennae of each type for MIMO (Multiple In Multiple Out). You choose the roof antenna model to match the router it connects to.

I use the Wifi WAN connection to connect to my house wifi when parked on the drive, and have also found it useful on campsites occasionally, when the mobile signal as extremely bad but the site has a land line connection for its wifi.

I find the local wifi (LAN) from my RUTX11 via the roof antenna is good enough for my purposes. It could be improved I suppose by fitting the supplied antennae to give better signal inside the MH, but then the wifi WAN to the house/campsite would not be any good. Depends on the individual usage requirements.

 

[Orion]

The roof antenna picks up 4G or 5G phone signals. It's not intended or suitable for broadcasting WiFi. Your router should have it's own (usually attached) antennae for broadcasting WiFi.
Mobile phone signals and WiFi are completely different things working on different wavelengths.

Must be some very weird magic going on with ours then!

We currently have no home broadband as I’ve cancelled the woeful BT service, and local fibre providers have yet to reach an agreement with Western Power to utilise the power pole sitting on our property.

So at the moment we are totally reliant on the mobile wi-fi installed in the van (parked on the opposite side of our lane approximately 25 metres away) for all our domestic broadband needs. It’s a Poynting MIMO-3-17 roof mounted antenna which is connected to a Teltonika RUTX12 twin modem router with IQGO (main) and Lebara (backup) SIMS. We can link our phones, tablets, laptops, TV, burglar alarm, Alexa and heating controls to the 2G signal with no problem despite having walls that are 600mm thick in places. The 5G is a bit more limited but can be received within a 50m radius outside.

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[DBK]

Must be some very weird magic going on with ours then!

We currently have no home broadband as I’ve cancelled the woeful BT service, and local fibre providers have yet to reach an agreement with Western Power to utilise the power pole sitting on our property.

So at the moment we are totally reliant on the mobile wi-fi installed in the van (parked on the opposite side of our lane approximately 25 metres away) for all our domestic broadband needs. It’s a Poynting MIMO-3-17 roof mounted antenna which is connected to a Teltonika RUTX12 twin modem router with IQGO (main) and Lebara (backup) SIMS. We can link our phones, tablets, laptops, TV, burglar alarm, Alexa and heating controls to the 2G signal with no problem despite having walls that are 600mm thick in places. The 5G is a bit more limited but can be received within a 50m radius outside.

That's an impressive setup. I assume the router is connected to the roof mounted WiFi antenna cables and if so, is the signal inside the MH good?

 

[Orion]

That's an impressive setup. I assume the router is connected to the roof mounted WiFi antenna cables and if so, is the signal inside the MH good?

Yes, and it’s absolutely rock solid on both 2G and 5G. We run our satnav through it on an iPhone plugged into the Fiat Uconnect head unit using either Apple Maps, Google Maps, Magic Earth, or Via Michelin depending on the country or the accent of the voice we want to hear - the Irish Caileen on Apple Maps is particularly soothing and quite entertaining when she’s pronouncing some of the longer Greek street names!

I couldn’t be ersed to shorten the antenna cabling even though I could have reduced them by nearly half to around a metre.

The router sits in one of the half height bedside cabinets with the antenna cable entry directly above. I found a 12v feed ready to go in the junction box at ceiling height, so wired in a switch for the router supply and a USB outlet for the amplified terrestrial TV antenna that sits in the adjacent overhead locker. The upside down antenna next to the JB is the Bluetooth one for the router - I’ll maybe use it to link to a couple of Teltonika motion detectors on the quad and motorcycles when I get round to it.