Who has ditched LPG altogether and gone all electric/diesel?

[MisterB]

For all those concerned about me removing lpg, the options at the moment are to go down the Chinese diesel heater route and add a separate 12/240v water heater.

My other option is just to bite the bullet and go for an underslung lpg option and remove the gaslow. That isn't where I wanted to be but it's cheaper than replacing the Truma and avoids an additional flue being cut into the bodywork.

To clarify, by removing the gaslow, I am able to have a dedicated 'electric' locker where I can add additional lithium and resite all my electrics from under the seat, which is very congested.

 

[JockandRita]

My other option is just to bite the bullet and go for an underslung lpg option and remove the gaslow. That isn't where I wanted to be but it's cheaper than replacing the Truma and avoids an additional flue being cut into the bodywork.

To clarify, by removing the gaslow, I am able to have a dedicated 'electric' locker where I can add additional lithium and resite all my electrics from under the seat, which is very congested.

That sounds more appealing to me Dave, ie, keeping options rather than placing all my eggs in one basket.
If one system fails, eg, a gas valve or solenoid, the other (electricity via the inverter), can be utilised as an alternative for hot water/heating.

Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Jock.

 

[PeterCarole29]

For all those concerned about me removing lpg, the options at the moment are to go down the Chinese diesel heater route and add a separate 12/240v water heater.

My other option is just to bite the bullet and go for an underslung lpg option and remove the gaslow. That isn't where I wanted to be but it's cheaper than replacing the Truma and avoids an additional flue being cut into the bodywork.

To clarify, by removing the gaslow, I am able to have a dedicated 'electric' locker where I can add additional lithium and resite all my electrics from under the seat, which is very congested.

I have fitted on 2 vans the whale expanse 8 litre water heaters before they have been both reliable and easy to fit and you can get the version that fits outside under floor
I have one in a box if you want a hands on look at one also have the diesel heater if you want to offer up for size. just noticed you want 12v and 240 water heater

 

[haganap]

I don't need to either and have never ran out of LPG on a trip ....

Phew, so it's just a bit of extavagance..... Now' we're all for that

 

[MisterB]

That sounds more appealing to me Dave, ie, keeping options rather than placing all my eggs in one basket.
If one system fails, eg, a gas valve or solenoid, the other (electricity via the inverter), can be utilised as an alternative for hot water/heating.

Good luck whatever you choose to do.

Jock.

but if i then do go down the separate diesel heater and 12/240v 10l water tank - i will have a redundant but very expensive lpg underslung tank ....

i am tempted to trial a 12/240v hot water tank by removing my truma, but keeping it for a while, i already have a spare diesel heater (for the one at home during the winter) and theyre cheap enough anyway ....so the heating side is easily taken care of, in particular because of the number of people using them (with the intent to install the super quiet dosing pump if i kept it permanently ...

i can get a 10l 12v/240v hot water for around £140 from ali-express which will probably do the job ...

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[JockandRita]

but if i then do go down the separate diesel heater and 12/240v 10l water tank - i will have a redundant but very expensive lpg underslung tank ....

i am tempted to trial a 12/240v hot water tank by removing my truma, but keeping it for a while, i already have a spare diesel heater (for the one at home during the winter) and theyre cheap enough anyway ....so the heating side is easily taken care of, in particular because of the number of people using them (with the intent to install the super quiet dosing pump if i kept it permanently ...

i can get a 10l 12v/240v hot water for around £140 from ali-express which will probably do the job ...

If it ain't broken..........

Jock.

 

[ian27]

any points i should consider?

also, if anyone has replaced their 3 way fridge freezer with a compressor fridge, have they considered a dedicated separate battery AND B2B just for the fridge?

I've kept a separate 12v battery. because A) I already had it , and good space for it under the seat that I couldn't find a way to use for a 48V B) have gone 48V for the solar+inverter, C) wanted to be able to still run the "vital" 12V systems (fridge , lights, water pump) even if the 48v system has an issue.

current status (6 months work since I bought it, roughly in order):

• swapped nackered lead acid leisure batt it came with for 120ah 12v KSI lithium I already had
• removed TV over fridge, used space for Microwave/Oven Combi unit
• added 48V 125ah (6.4kwh) sterling amps battery , multiplus 48/5000 powering all sockets....
• added various new sockets, upped AC wiring to 2.5mm to kitchen sockets, per-socket star wiring to expanded CU, RCBO per spoke, so I can run 7000W if on EHU across all kitchen appliances safely (6mm from MP AC out to CU)
• swapped 3 way fridge to 12v compressor fridge
• removed gas oven, replaced with drawers / storage space for Air Fryer
• added 800w of solar (16x 50w panels in 4S4P giving 80VOC per string ) victron MPPT into the 48V battery

b2b wise I have just kept the existing schaudt/lippert b2b charging the 12v battery. I looked into 12-48V b2b's but very expensive. In the end I bought a cheapo aliexpress 250watt 12V to 56V DC converter. I can use this to move charge from 12 to 48 side during driving (it has an ACC switch terminal) if needed. It doesn't matter that its not a proper charger - its not intended to fully charge it, just move some energy. transfer the other way, from 48 side to 12V when needed is simply done using an victron bluesmart mains charger that I had already.

hob is still gas - going to induction would require a kitchen worktop rip and replace so thats longer term. portable induction in use already.

water+ space heating is still the gas/elec truma combi.
water:
I'm probably going for 48V DC stored + 4kw 230VAC instant for the water heating at some point, safiery do a kit sold through roamer in the UK. probably a job for the winter, I need to stop tinkering and go have some time away in it now..
space:
I have been researching RV heat pump aircon units that can also have heat pump COP gain ( I have a home heat pump so very familiar with the efficiency behaviour) as space heaters but no decisions made.... I'm making the assumption that for cold season overnights I'd be at a site on EHU so not relying on stored or self-generated electrical capacity. Would probably have diesel as a backup / out and about anyway.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

I've kept a separate 12v battery. because A) I already had it , and good space for it under the seat that I couldn't find a way to use for a 48V B) have gone 48V for the solar+inverter, C) wanted to be able to still run the "vital" 12V systems (fridge , lights, water pump) even if the 48v system has an issue.

current status (6 months work since I bought it, roughly in order):

• swapped nackered lead acid leisure batt it came with for 120ah 12v KSI lithium I already had
• removed TV over fridge, used space for Microwave/Oven Combi unit
• added 48V 125ah (6.4kwh) sterling amps battery , multiplus 48/5000 powering all sockets....
• added various new sockets, upped AC wiring to 2.5mm to kitchen sockets, per-socket star wiring to expanded CU, RCBO per spoke, so I can run 7000W if on EHU across all kitchen appliances safely (6mm from MP AC out to CU)
• swapped 3 way fridge to 12v compressor fridge
• removed gas oven, replaced with drawers / storage space for Air Fryer
• added 800w of solar (16x 50w panels in 4S4P giving 80VOC per string ) victron MPPT into the 48V battery

b2b wise I have just kept the existing schaudt/lippert b2b charging the 12v battery. I looked into 12-48V b2b's but very expensive. In the end I bought a cheapo aliexpress 250watt 12V to 56V DC converter. I can use this to move charge from 12 to 48 side during driving (it has an ACC switch terminal) if needed. It doesn't matter that its not a proper charger - its not intended to fully charge it, just move some energy. transfer the other way, from 48 side to 12V when needed is simply done using an victron bluesmart mains charger that I had already.

hob is still gas - going to induction would require a kitchen worktop rip and replace so thats longer term. portable induction in use already.

water+ space heating is still the gas/elec truma combi.
water:
I'm probably going for 48V DC stored + 4kw 230VAC instant for the water heating at some point, safiery do a kit sold through roamer in the UK. probably a job for the winter, I need to stop tinkering and go have some time away in it now..
space:
I have been researching RV heat pump aircon units that can also have heat pump COP gain ( I have a home heat pump so very familiar with the efficiency behaviour) as space heaters but no decisions made.... I'm making the assumption that for cold season overnights I'd be at a site on EHU so not relying on stored or self-generated electrical capacity. Would probably have diesel as a backup / out and about anyway.

Similar to my plan, in terms of Ah, voltage and inverter size. Is 125Ah enough if running inverter a full whack? I'm thinking 300Ah might be necessary.

 

[MisterB]

Similar to my plan, in terms of Ah, voltage and inverter size. Is 125Ah enough if running inverter a full whack? I'm thinking 300Ah might be necessary.

We have a 304Ah at the moment and can run the kettle and microwave at the same time

 

[jumar]

How close to being 100% Lithium are we?
Summer use, here in Spain
Change fridge to compressor type.
Continue to cook on Induction hob and Air fryer.
Boil water for washing up on hob.
Use Beach showers.

Winter use, same locations.
install diesel Combi boiler for heat and water.

Although we have cheap LPG and a vast amount of Solar, to convert would be a fairly simple procedure...but as appliances get less reliable, I would swap them out as above.. especially the fridge.

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[ian27]

Similar to my plan, in terms of Ah, voltage and inverter size. Is 125Ah enough if running inverter a full whack? I'm thinking 300Ah might be necessary.

125Ah at 48v nominal. equivalent capacity to a 500ah @ 12v nominal battery.
pulls 100A with the inverter going full beans (5000VA), which is only in bursts - pretty hard to use that much constantly. the benefits of 48v ;-)

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

125Ah at 48v nominal. equivalent capacity to a 500ah @ 12v nominal battery.
pulls 100A with the inverter going full beans (5000VA), which is only in bursts - pretty hard to use that much constantly. the benefits of 48v ;-)

Agreed though how often are you on ehu? I mean; how long can you be totally off-grid? I'm still at planning stage but I'd like to be off-grid completely so 48V it will be, with about 2400W solar on roof. No diesel or gas heating/cooking. Just electricity. Currently (sorry for pun lol), exploring 48V aircon.

 

[pau1phi11ips]

any points i should consider?

also, if anyone has replaced their 3 way fridge freezer with a compressor fridge, have they considered a dedicated separate battery AND B2B just for the fridge?

Been all electric for fridge and cooking from the initial conversion. Use a double induction hob and air fryer.
Diesel heater for heating and hot water though.

600W solar, 280Ah 24V battery (equivalent to 560Ah 12V), 3000W inverter.

We usually last about 8 days on the Easter trip with the solar and 360W DC-DC charger before a top up from a hook-up.

I've got an Orion XS 1400 DC-DC charger too now though so should hopefully be fine with needing a top-up from hook-up in future with enough driving around.

 

[ian27]

Agreed though how often are you on ehu? I mean; how long can you be totally off-grid? I'm still at planning stage but I'd like to be off-grid completely so 48V it will be, with about 2400W solar on roof. No diesel or gas heating/cooking. Just electricity. Currently (sorry for pun lol), exploring 48V aircon.

dunno yet, I only finished the solar setup yesterday! to find out over the next few months, starting with 9 days touring north east england / southern scotland next week. I went with what seemed "reasonable + workable": I could fit 2 of those batteries but they are 40kg each and pretty big, and expensive, and the 2nd one would have to be 1metre away from the 1st , adding complexity to the cabling, so starting with one seemed sensible . As mentioned by MisterB , if I got rid of gas entirely (have 2x gaslows today) I'd be able to relocate most of the heavy electrics to the no-longer-a-gas locker, but not able to do that just yet.

Similarly the solar, 800W has taken about half the roof (the front), and I prefer at this stage to keep the rear clear so I can put a windsurf hardboard up top if doing that kind of trip.

If you find 48V aircon/heatpump that looks interesting, please let me know directly, I did some inconclusive research there as well... US stuff, aliexpress stuff, nothing that looked like I wanted to actually go for it.

 

[TheMobileWanderer]

Ive no knowledge of this one

Off Grid Solar Powered Air Conditioning | Superen Australia

Our Off Grid solar powered air conditioners can substantially reduce power generation costs and battery requirements. Contact our team today to learn more.

www.superen.com.au

And 'safiery' in Oz do RV electricals.

Just found this one

DC Powered Air Conditioners

DC 9321 12v 24v 48V 400V AC DC split cab air conditioner for heavy mobile equipment and rolling stock

www.dcairco.com

I'll look into the details of those later.

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[Carpmart]

ive never been impressed with the Bobil water heater, but am prepared to be persuaded .... as regards cooking fully on electric, weve been doing it for quite some time now and cant see us going back, but i still want to keep a cadac and the trio to power it for bbq's away from the motorhome ...

I’ve been using the Bobil vans water heater and tank for two years plus now… great bit of kit!

 

[MisterB]

I’ve been using the Bobil vans water heater and tank for two years plus now… great bit of kit!

Is that the calorifier or the electric water heater boosted by a diesel heater? Do you have a separate heater ?

 

[mikash]

I'm a bit curious, what benefits are you guys looking for from a DC aircon vs an AC aircon? I've been looking at 24V/12V options and while there's a lot of hand waving about better efficiency , the spec sheets are all over the place and not always in favour of the DC option even. Often better efficiency in the marketing materials doesn't mean efficiency at all but instead means lower consumption AND cooling output
Have you found any units that actually have a significant edge over a modern inverter compressor AC aircon?

Edit. So far for myself it seems the biggest advantage would be not having to listen to your inverter hum when you need AC.

 

[Carpmart]

Is that the calorifier or the electric water heater boosted by a diesel heater? Do you have a separate heater ?

I have the dual element 10l tank!

Bobil Electric - Water Heater | Bobil Vans

CHEAP AND EASY HOT WATER IN A CAMPERVAN The Bobil Electric heats allows you to heat water electrically (12V, 230V or both), perfect for use in a campervan or marine hot water system. The 800W AC version can be connected to your electric hookup socket (or inverter). The 200W DC version can be...

www.bobilvans.co.uk

 

[ian27]

I'm a bit curious, what benefits are you guys looking for from a DC aircon vs an AC aircon? I've been looking at 24V/12V options and while there's a lot of hand waving about better efficiency , the spec sheets are all over the place and not always in favour of the DC option even. Often better efficiency in the marketing materials doesn't mean efficiency at all but instead means lower consumption AND cooling output
Have you found any units that actually have a significant edge over a modern inverter compressor AC aircon?

Edit. So far for myself it seems the biggest advantage would be not having to listen to your inverter hum when you need AC.

My reading is the most obvious efficiency gain of direct DC unit is from not having to convert electricity twice, from battery DC ->inverter AC-> compressor DC . That might save 10-20% input DC watts for the same output DC watts.

The second factor is the multiplier which is the efficiency of the unit itself : how many watts of electricity in gets you how many watts of heat transfer out . That is down to the design and engineering of the aircon system and the refrigerant. This number can vary quite a lot from one brand/unit to another and is not intrinsically related to what type of electrical supply it takes (although you would save the conversion loss again of course if DC). However, my understanding is that the older RV AC powered rooftop units are not particularly efficient because they assumed lots of AC power always available from an EHU - the heat transfer5 output was what mattered, not the efficiency.
I don't have any personal experience with aircon systems, I only know heating heatpumps where real world COP is the number that matters, aircon they use EER but its fundamentally the same thing.

I think they are also lighter- certainly if you look at velit as an example their 48vDC is 2 pounds (US...) lighter than their 12vDC, if they did a 120VAC(US...) I'd expect heavier again as there are more electrical components to fit in.

Another point is it means the inverters capacity isn't used at all, so you can be running whatever other big AC loads that you've sized your inverter for, cooking is the obvious high load, and still have the aircon on. Obviously you need a big enough battery to cope both in terms of kw and kwh, but thats implicit anyway.
there's plenty of 48v stuff in the US , I haven't yet done any detailed digging into who, if any of them, sell into europe.

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[ian27]

I have the dual element 10l tank!

Bobil Electric - Water Heater | Bobil Vans

CHEAP AND EASY HOT WATER IN A CAMPERVAN The Bobil Electric heats allows you to heat water electrically (12V, 230V or both), perfect for use in a campervan or marine hot water system. The 800W AC version can be connected to your electric hookup socket (or inverter). The 200W DC version can be...

www.bobilvans.co.uk

I asked them if they did a 48vDC version and they said no. Is the 12vDC immersion element removable / replaceable? (48vDC immersion elements exist)

 

[MisterB]

I asked them if they did a 48vDC version and they said no. Is the 12vDC immersion element removable / replaceable? (48vDC immersion elements exist)

I would imagine if the thread is the same then it should be reasonably simple to exchange, depending on length etc

 

[Awboxster]

It depends on the heater and how it's installed.

A lot of the cheap Chinese 'silencers' have no baffle in them at all and even the 'better' ones just have a spring. Neither of these are great.

The other thing that helps a lot is having two silencers. I have my genuine Eberspacher one paired with a 'sprung' Chinese one and it genuinely is nearly silent once it's running. Obviously it's noticeable one startup like they all are.

The other noisy aspect to them is the constant 'click, click, click' of the dosing pump. A lot of people (myself included on my last build) minimise the noise inside the van by mounting the pump on the outside. However, that's not great if you're outside the van...

I got round this one by buying a truly silent pump (which cost more than my heater!) but I wouldn't be without it now.

My dosing pump was fitted outside...I believe they are all fitted outside these days. I honestly do not hear the pump running when inside and also in bed when the heater fires up in the night.

 

[jumar]

I'm getting even closer to being less and less LPG dependant....our Domestic 3 way fridge is causing my stress levels to rise to an unacceptable level...
Had to resort to ordering a freestanding Alpicool to complete this current trip which extends into October..

 

[gonawaydave]

Yes. Cost and gain.

Our last van was the Adria 670slt and we gave your same plan serious consideration. The overall cost was stupidly ridiculous.
The amount of work involved although not much was a factor. Plus the gas system we already had 2x 11kg Gaslow.

So new fridge required to replace an already good fridge.
A new truma heating/water system to replace an already perfectly good system
Wasted money on a perfectly good Gaslow system to follow the trend for all electric because you believe people like Gadget John that you can't get gas anywhere.
An expensive Lithium set up.

We were looking at quite a few thousands of pounds for this and as my wife pointed out at the time. We would end up staying in the same places for the same amount of time but we wouldn't have gas.
I will point out that we travel for at least 90 days mostly off grid and have yet to have an issue with getting gas and are about to embark on another adventure.

The next point is. We then exchanged the Adria. Potentially all that for nothing.

so we now have the panel van and is much more difficult to do this work to this van. But not impossible. Again I considered your option on this van

After careful consideration we have only added an Aferiy 2300 power bank and 400w folding solar. although I've just bought the bluetti charger1 to add to charge whilst driving.
We have a 3 way fridge and Truma boiler. both of them can run off the Aferiy if parked in sun and it will also run the Air Con for shortish bursts to lower the temp inside.
I have made a lead from the 13amp outlet on the power bank to the van mains hook up so the power bank charges our existing battery and will run the fridge and Starlink all day.

If we were buying a van for self build I'd probably go all electric but otherwise it's just not worth it in my opinion.

just our thoughts having considered exactly the same on the same van.

Good luck.

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[Dizzyfish]

I have a small campingaz cylinder which is only used for the hob/grill. Easy to buy/replace the cylinders anywhere in Europe and takes up no space. Diesel used for heating/hot water using Truma D6E (can also be used on electric if on ehu). Electric used for compressor fridge. 2x100ah batteries. Used the setup for a few years now, and can go off grid for 3 to 4 days without solar panel. I have a foldable panel which fits in the windscreen should I need it. Great setup and with underslung water tank, it means I have loads of room in the garage.

 

[Rockpool]

first two bits of research complete !!

Compressor fridge freezer is simple enough, just need 4mm cable to feed it, easily sorted ....

Diesel heater a little bit more complicated - Truma advised that as the exhaust on my current heater has a bend in it, they will need to cut another hole for the flue, thats not a massive issue but i do need to think about it to see if i can use the existing flue opening for something else so it doesnt look 'odd' .....

so is anyone looking for fully working N3170 Thetford 3 way fridge/freezer and a Truma gas/electric heating/hot water boiler ..... both can be seen working prior to removal, which will be ASAP !!!

first two bits of research complete !!

Compressor fridge freezer is simple enough, just need 4mm cable to feed it, easily sorted ....

Diesel heater a little bit more complicated - Truma advised that as the exhaust on my current heater has a bend in it, they will need to cut another hole for the flue, thats not a massive issue but i do need to think about it to see if i can use the existing flue opening for something else so it doesnt look 'odd' .....

so is anyone looking for fully working N3170 Thetford 3 way fridge/freezer and a Truma gas/electric heating/hot water boiler ..... both can be seen working prior to removal, which will be ASAP !!!

Been thinking about the same changes as yourself on swapping to diesel heating and water and definitely swapping out our 3 way fridge as it is struggling so much as we are in France at the moment and is wash reaching 40Deg the other day and even at night it’s still around 30 Deg.
Looking at the Thetford T2152 but might have to up add more Lithium as only got 240AH but as we mainly only stay in one place a few days might be okay with the 240Ah so might try it out first and see how it goes. On the Heater not sure to install a D4E or D6E at the moment still looking into the best way to install and configure all the connections to a new unit.
Hope everything goes well with your upgrades.

 

[Ginger407]

Is the old (?) concern about diesel heaters being noisy still justified? One of our traveling friends has a Truma diesel combi in her van and we can hear if it she parks with the exhaust on our side.

I have installed a diesel combi water/heater and a diesel hob in my self built Peugeot Boxer and pleased with both but they are a tad noisy. Fridge is compressor

 

[Dorset Diver]

I believe that carolyn has gone LPG free. It would be interesting to know how it's going in Iceland.

 

[carolyn]

I believe that carolyn has gone LPG free. It would be interesting to know how it's going in Iceland.

We still have LPG for the cooker. Not that we use it much. We have a remoska (400w), electric kettle 800w , a 800w induction hob and a 1000w inverter. We have 3200w solar (they are those thin ones that Consort fit. A Renogy 240a under seat battery. Victron MPPT controller and BTB. Compressor fridge. We move most days. Here are the photos. You can see the day we were on the ferry! As you can see we haven’t had much sun.

We haven’t needed hookup which is great as it’s between 10-15 euros a night. We are over the moon.

We brought in quite a bit of booze. Nick has even been allowed the odd pint at the craft breweries (£9)!

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