What size nuts ?

[Apache]

I’m about to start the fitting of the air assist kit to my Ducato based Autotrail which will require undoing and re-tightening of the spring plate nuts where the leaf spring is fastened . Anyone know the size of the nut by any chance please ?

 

[Al-Di]

10 or 12 mm ie if 19mm spanner fits its 10mm thread 21/22mm spanner 12mm thread,

 

[jockaneezer]

Isn't M10 a 17mm AF spanner and M12 a 19mm AF spanner as standard ?

 

[MisterB]

oops, i thought you meant how big is the nut who decided to do the job in the first place ....

just joking... good luck with the project, if you get to a stage where its a headache, remember, its only nuts and bolts so stick with it !

 

[Apache]

5’8” ?

10 or 12 mm ie if 19mm spanner fits its 10mm thread 21/22mm spanner 12mm thread,

Isn't M10 a 17mm AF spanner and M12 a 19mm AF spanner as standard ?

Thanks guys

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[Landy Andy]

I thought they were m14 so 22mm spanner although the bolts are fine thread not standard from memory.

 

[Landy Andy]

Apache

The spring U bolts are M14 and require a 22mm socket, and if buying new they are fine thread not standard. Just checked on mine.

 

[ctc]

10 or 12 mm ie if 19mm spanner fits its 10mm thread 21/22mm spanner 12mm thread,

German nuts need a 24mm spanner and be careful, Italy, France,Germany and the UK all used different standards. Particularly the pitch and profile, some have the tolerance in the nut and some on the screw, same with spanners.

 

[Two on Tour]

German nuts need a 24mm spanner and be careful, Italy, France,Germany and the UK all used different standards. Particularly the pitch and profile, some have the tolerance in the nut and some on the screw, same with spanners.

Please post a link to the different metric thread standards as far as I was only aware that metric threads are ISO having a 60 degree thread angle and being either metric course or metric fine.
The bolt heads and nuts are normally ISO but some can be found in the bigger DIN specification above a thread diameter of 10mm.

A fairly rare variant called "Mad Metric" can be found on various fittings on early "T" type MG cars when Morris Motor bought up the works of the French machine gun manufacturer Hotchkiss.

 

[Apache]

Very interesting all this ISO and DIN stuff. I thought it was confusing enough with AF and Whitworth, UNC and UNF etc with my old Landrover and now I’ve got Metric to contend with . Any way I can’t do much yet as I’m sitting in the house waiting ( praying ) for the last part of my kit from Marcle to arrive on guaranteed next day delivery and if I go down to where the moho is parked I’ll miss them. ?

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[ctc]

Please post a link to the different metric thread standards as far as I was only aware that metric threads are ISO having a 60 degree thread angle and being either metric course or metric fine.
The bolt heads and nuts are normally ISO but some can be found in the bigger DIN specification above a thread diameter of 10mm.

A fairly rare variant called "Mad Metric" can be found on various fittings on early "T" type MG cars when Morris Motor bought up the works of the French machine gun manufacturer Hotchkiss.

View attachment 390162

I spent most of my working life installing machinery from Germany, France, Italy and UK and I can assure you whatever the standards say, nuts and bolts were rarely interchangeable, safely. More importantly if a nut would run on to a screw it may not stand a load. Clearance on hexagon heads is sometimes on the spanner, sometimes on the hexagon. To cap it all the motor industry standards are different again, for instance 14,15,18,20,21,22mm spanners were thrown away.

 

[Spriddler]

Very interesting all this ISO and DIN stuff. I thought it was confusing enough with AF and Whitworth, UNC and UNF etc

And with my old Brit m/bikes, plus BA (for electrical bits), BSC (for frame), BSP (for copper fuel pipes and taps) and BSF (into aluminium) necessitating drawers full of spanners and a couple of Imperial and metric adjustable spanners for anything else.

 

[Two on Tour]

I spent most of my working life installing machinery from Germany, France, Italy and UK and I can assure you whatever the standards say, nuts and bolts were rarely interchangeable, safely. More importantly if a nut would run on to a screw it may not stand a load. Clearance on hexagon heads is sometimes on the spanner, sometimes on the hexagon. To cap it all the motor industry standards are different again, for instance 14,15,18,20,21,22mm spanners were thrown away.

Sounds more like poor manufacturing tolerances and not adhering to the ISO and DIN specification rather than different metric standard and I too have spent most of my working live working with metric, and all manor of thread sizes and in last business before retiring, classic car restoration in which I came across all manor of nuts, bolts and screw that previous owners thought would do the job, but luckily I have a friend that owns the Sterling Bolt and Nut company, that many a time got me out of a pickle by sourcing some weird and wonderful threads.

 

[Apache]

Well it finally came , great customer service from Marcle Leisure. So I’ve managed to get to the point of offering up the first air bellows to all the newly fitted brackets ( 22 mm socket on the ubolts as suggested ) but it started to go a little darker and beer o’clock was rapidly approaching.
Tomorrow I should get the bellows bolted into place after fighting the clip for the handbrake cable and then start and hopefully complete the other side ( now I know what to expect ) .

 

[Two on Tour]

I found it easier to fit my bellows by compressing them and then using cable ties to hold them compress until in place.

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[PeteH]

The first "standard" that I know of Was Whitworth. prior to that it had been a free for all. Thread form and pitch where whatever the guy working the lathe thought, "I`ve got a Nut?. I`ll just make a bolt to suit". Or vice versa!. I have produced Oversized Bolts, and the nuts to fit, when a particular Hole had to be enlarged!. More than once, on a lathe, in the ships Engine room in a seaway!. ( sick bucket at the ready!).
A-F, was an American? standard and hence found on the cars produced by (Primarily) Ford, and Vauxhall (G-M) and gradually filtered into the UK car industry. UN (Coarse) and UN(Fine). where finding there way into UK industry, and the cars too, as I was going through my apprenticeship.
I am not entirely sure just when Metric became "Dominant". Maybe it was a factor in the surge of imported goods in the 70`s onward?. My connections in this regard where severed some years ago now. but 90% of what I handle to-day is Metric?. Except for the Triumph which still uses A-F OR UN.

SO, My "toolbox" has Spanners that many have forgotten!. Ie B-A, Whit; A-F/UN, Metric. and some "Specials". Like the one for adjusting "mini" Brakes?.

 

[jockaneezer]

I found some old pre war Whitworth nuts and bolts in the stores at the old printworks (Est 1830's) I worked at over 25 years ago. The af size and thickness of them was huge. Apparently they were reduced in size during the last war to save on material (same as trouser turn ups too !) I was also gifted some huge LMS spanners that could have doubled as boat anchors.

 

[gus-lopez]

Whitworth available here still as it is used on all types of wood burning stoves. Even Spanish manufactured.

 

[Apache]

I found it easier to fit my bellows by compressing them and then using cable ties to hold them compress until in place.

Yes I’ve heard of that before , tried that and the cable ties turned out to have perished . Managed with some strong nylon cord and a slip knot. I also found that it is much easier to remove the plate over the leaf spring before the instruction tell you and also only put the new bolts in top and bottom as well as leaving plenty of slack in the ubolts . All of which gave me much more wriggle room to get the airbags bolted up. Still got the airlines to route and the gauge to fit but hopefully that should be it .

 

[PeteH]

I found some old pre war Whitworth nuts and bolts in the stores at the old printworks (Est 1830's) I worked at over 25 years ago. The af size and thickness of them was huge. Apparently they were reduced in size during the last war to save on material (same as trouser turn ups too !) I was also gifted some huge LMS spanners that could have doubled as boat anchors.

1924. All (Whit) Bolt and Nut sizes where reduce by one spanner size. And you are correct it was done in order to save steel. Square Nut/Bolt combinations where still in use on the railways eg; Fishplates, right up to the phasing out of the wooden sleeper, in favour of pre-stressed concrete items I understand and the spanners where half as tall as a man.

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