wet belt broke

[Tonks]

Even though an engine has a chain drive to the camshaft, this doesn’t mean those are maintenance free. Chain tensioners break or wear (usually have plastic guides), the chains are usually simplex rather than duplex and wear resulting in elongation. BMW, JLR and Peugeot all have issues with chains.

Yep. My 16 year old BMW 118d (fully serviced its whole life, it was my company car before I bought it off the fleet) has now started to 'rattle' on startup, which is a sign of chain wear. Having to decide whether it's worth spending the money on replacing it and the associated components on a car which has some other 'life limiting' issues. But if I get rid, I'll end up running just the van since I can't afford to buy another car which is at all decent. Which means the van will then get loaded with all the short journeys and business journeys which the car currently does, as well as adding several thousand more miles a year to its engine. Looking at around £1000 pre-emptive repair cost on the car...

 

[Widge]

I thought this was interesting recarding maintenance costs, and polition reduction.

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[CazPaul]

Even though an engine has a chain drive to the camshaft, this doesn’t mean those are maintenance free. Chain tensioners break or wear (usually have plastic guides), the chains are usually simplex rather than duplex and wear resulting in elongation. BMW, JLR and Peugeot all have issues with chains.

That’s because they don’t make them like they used to, some of the old 70s,80s,90s,2000s vehicles have chains that havnt been touched
Ours is March 2005 vehicle chain driven that’s not been touched so over 20 years old, how much has that saved in changing the flimsy bit of rubber?

 

[Plynchy]

That only works if the manufacturer gets it right.

Wet belt change for a Transit was 160,000 miles and they were failing at just over 100,000, change now revised to 100,000.

Service interval is now 60k/6 years.

 

[Lenny HB]

Service interval is now 60k/6 years.

A lot cheaper to run a dry belt engine then.

 

[gus-lopez]

Looking at around £1000 pre-emptive repair cost on the car...

Isn't that the model with the chain on the back of the engine?

 

[Plynchy]

A lot cheaper to run a dry belt engine then.

Possibly, but not that many options now as most Moho are Ford or Fiat based.

As others have said, if looked after and serviced correctly they do last, but every marque has it's issues.

 

[Dannco75]

Check out @thecareditionltd on youtube and you'll see that wet belts are a complete lottery. Failures can cost thousands to put right. Even routine maintenance is obscenely expensive with things like sumps now being consumable parts.

 

[gus-lopez]

If I bought a new wet belt engine then the oil & filter would be being changed every 6 months regardless of mileage

 

[Stoosal]

If I bought a new wet belt engine then the oil & filter would be being changed every 6 months regardless of mileage

That’s what I do. The oil is checked for any signs of rubber etc which would indicate belt breakdown as well as a good sniff for any diesel which may be in oil. Oil is not cheap but cheaper than a belt breaking.
Ford wet belt change is a goldmine for dealers as many parts are now replaceable. The timing belt cover is a disposable item and has to be fixed back on with sealant. Dealer prices are £179 for cover plus sealant at £24 a tube. Add VAT to those prices. Sump is now a replaceable item and must be affixed with said sealant.
Most owners are not going to chance a belt failure so are getting them changed early just in case.
If properly maintained then the belts don’t appear to have a failure rate worse than any other manufacturers but I think when they first came out people were just chucking any old oil in not realising it was potentially harmful to belt life.
Would I buy another Ford? After having Ford’s all my life I don’t like the Fiat and they also have issues. MB Sprinter have some pretty horrendous, expensive repairs and MAN/VW aren’t without their faults.
It’s a minefield. I’m going to keep my Ford just now but……..

 

[gus-lopez]

The timing belt cover is a disposable item and has to be fixed back on with sealant.

My 2007 mark 7 Transit has a chain but that cover is throwaway & has to be replaced

 

[Cowpat]

just had a call for me to sort out a broken ford transht wet belt this will be the 5th i have done ....got to love a ford lol

There’s a young guy on YouTube that’s done hundreds of them. They’re in fords peugeots vws and lids of others. Type in wet belt on YouTube and you’ll never go near another one

 

[Scottish Scrutineer]

Yep. My 16 year old BMW 118d (fully serviced its whole life, it was my company car before I bought it off the fleet) has now started to 'rattle' on startup, which is a sign of chain wear. Having to decide whether it's worth spending the money on replacing it and the associated components on a car which has some other 'life limiting' issues. But if I get rid, I'll end up running just the van since I can't afford to buy another car which is at all decent. Which means the van will then get loaded with all the short journeys and business journeys which the car currently does, as well as adding several thousand more miles a year to its engine. Looking at around £1000 pre-emptive repair cost on the car...

Isn't that the model with the chain on the back of the engine?

I’m pretty sure this is the same engine as fitted to Minis of that era which have the cam chain at the rear of the engine. TBF if you great th chain and any VANOS units replaced, tat should outlast the rest of the car. I had a 60 plate 118d, and on reflection it wasn’t too bad, though it was a 3-door which made getting in/out of it in parking bays a bit of a task. With winter tyres, it was great in snow embarrassing many fwd and 4wds.

 

[rambo]

There’s a young guy on YouTube that’s done hundreds of them. They’re in fords peugeots vws and lids of others. Type in wet belt on YouTube and you’ll never go near anothethere not that bad to do if you know what you ar

if u can do belts you can do a wet belt its the same princeable it justs a bit messy and antiquated

 

[jongood]

Possibly, but not that many options now as most Moho are Ford or Fiat based.

As others have said, if looked after and serviced correctly they do last, but every marque has it's issues.

I think you will find a lot of ex owners that disagree with that.

But yes its not only Ford, JLR's ingenium engine is so bad that some used car dealers won't take them in and the SD/TD V6's are suffering from snapping crankshafts. Then you have Navarra picksups snapping in half and what we all know about Comfortmatics. It really is a minefield out there, even the Japanese are having problems.

 

[jongood]

I thought this was interesting recarding maintenance costs, and polition reduction.

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This guy does some great videos. Puts it in a nutshell, short sighted emissions policies, failing to take account of emissions for repairs and replacement, meaning that more on lower incomes will be walking.

 

[rambo]

That’s what I do. The oil is checked for any signs of rubber etc which would indicate belt breakdown as well as a good sniff for any diesel which may be in oil. Oil is not cheap but cheaper than a belt breaking.
Ford wet belt change is a goldmine for dealers as many parts are now replaceable. The timing belt cover is a disposable item and has to be fixed back on with sealant. Dealer prices are £179 for cover plus sealant at £24 a tube. Add VAT to those prices. Sump is now a replaceable item and must be affixed with said sealant.
Most owners are not going to chance a belt failure so are getting them changed early just in case.
If properly maintained then the belts don’t appear to have a failure rate worse than any other manufacturers but I think when they first came out people were just chucking any old oil in not realising it was potentially harmful to belt life.
Would I buy another Ford? After having Ford’s all my life I don’t like the Fiat and they also have issues. MB Sprinter have some pretty horrendous, expensive repairs and MAN/VW aren’t without their faults.
It’s a minefield. I’m going to keep my Ford just now but……..

its small particals of the belt that ends up in the oil is one of the probs and it blocks oil strainer .i do a oil change on my mates for him i drain the out of the sump plug and leave draining for long time. then the oil i put threw a gauze and check for particals of belt i have seen particals of belt at 6ok ish i do not use the vac pump down the dip stick as i think it dont get all the contaminated particals out .maybe i go to deep into it dont know but its just me.. but if did not strain oil i would not have seen those particals .

 

[rambo]

There seems to be a bit of a downer on Transits with "Wet Belts"........ Not on here I might add, but certainly on other social media channels. Lot of scaremongering going on.

There is no issue with the wet belts as long as you follow the correct guidance by Ford, regarding oil changes and belt changes.

I heard of a couple where they had done nothing really, splash of cheap supermarket oil for top up, then run the engine through 150,000 miles plus, and wondered why the belt gave up the ghost.

I purchased my Transit Custom with just over 30,000 miles on it, and immediately had the belt changed so I could start from day one with it, despite knowing that the previous 30k had been treated with the recommended oils and changes (Was my son's van used for his business), he is a stalwart of the Transit MS-RT, and does follow Ford's guidelines, as do I.

Look after them, and they will serve you well.

I bet there are a few on here with good miles on them, that have looked after them well, and not had issues.

ford dont evan know the correct guidance they changed the service intervals /millage for belt change a couple of times

 

[PP Bear]

Why doesn’t someone invent a kind of pushrod that’s driven by the engine and runs in “time” with the cylinder head valves. This rod could then go up onto a rocker shaft and in the process, we could then move the cam shaft to the middle of the engine and use cam followers to prevent wear and tear. The rocker shaft could then be adjustable, so that as the engine wears, you can take up the wear by simply adjusting something like a rocker bolt and locknut to secure it. Of course, you’d need to design a simple set of gauges to do the adjustments and at set service intervals, but as the gauges would need to “feel” the resistance of the adjustment, we could call them feeler gauges. The entire system could be bathed in oil to reduce wear and tear, dissipate heat and remove sludge etc.

Might write a letter to Mr Ford and see what he says, as it could end the need to change these belts and chains forever.

Clever PP Bear

 

[Dannco75]

That’s what I do. The oil is checked for any signs of rubber etc which would indicate belt breakdown as well as a good sniff for any diesel which may be in oil. Oil is not cheap but cheaper than a belt breaking.
Ford wet belt change is a goldmine for dealers as many parts are now replaceable. The timing belt cover is a disposable item and has to be fixed back on with sealant. Dealer prices are £179 for cover plus sealant at £24 a tube. Add VAT to those prices. Sump is now a replaceable item and must be affixed with said sealant.
Most owners are not going to chance a belt failure so are getting them changed early just in case.
If properly maintained then the belts don’t appear to have a failure rate worse than any other manufacturers but I think when they first came out people were just chucking any old oil in not realising it was potentially harmful to belt life.
Would I buy another Ford? After having Ford’s all my life I don’t like the Fiat and they also have issues. MB Sprinter have some pretty horrendous, expensive repairs and MAN/VW aren’t without their faults.
It’s a minefield. I’m going to keep my Ford just now but……..

If people go with dealer advised service intervals they're going to have a very bad time.

 

[rambo]

Check out @thecareditionltd on youtube and you'll see that wet belts are a complete lottery. Failures can cost thousands to put right. Even routine maintenance is obscenely expensive with things like sumps now being consumable parts

Why doesn’t someone invent a kind of pushrod that’s driven by the engine and runs in “time” with the cylinder head valves. This rod could then go up onto a rocker shaft and in the process, we could then move the cam shaft to the middle of the engine and use cam followers to prevent wear and tear. The rocker shaft could then be adjustable, so that as the engine wears, you can take up the wear by simply adjusting something like a rocker bolt and locknut to secure it. Of course, you’d need to design a simple set of gauges to do the adjustments and at set service intervals, but as the gauges would need to “feel” the resistance of the adjustment, we could call them feeler gauges. The entire system could be bathed in oil to reduce wear and tear, dissipate heat and remove sludge etc.

Might write a letter to Mr Ford and see what he says, as it could end the need to change these belts and chains forever.

Clever PP Bear

sorry to break it to u but mr ford passed a few years ago

 

[rambo]

If the belt snaps you can get away with just a new cam carrier which goes above cylinder head.

If the teeth start to strip off and it continues to run when it finally dies it usually bends the valves, meaning the head has to be repaired/replaced also

NO if the belt snaps and dose not hit valves u put a whole new kit in adjuster crank seal belts new cover pump carrier pick up pipe ect ect a good clean out of particals while its in bits ect do it proper while its in bits proper job then

 

[EuroTrotters]

Possibly, but not that many options now as most Moho are Ford or Fiat based.

As others have said, if looked after and serviced correctly they do last, but every marque has it's issues.

Good old Mercedes 216/316/416 and 616 5 cylinder engines with manual or 5G-Tronic true autos will go for a good 400,000 miles if looked after.

Sadly, they do rust if not checked. Especially panel vans

 

[EuroTrotters]

Yep. My 16 year old BMW 118d (fully serviced its whole life, it was my company car before I bought it off the fleet) has now started to 'rattle' on startup, which is a sign of chain wear. Having to decide whether it's worth spending the money on replacing it and the associated components on a car which has some other 'life limiting' issues. But if I get rid, I'll end up running just the van since I can't afford to buy another car which is at all decent. Which means the van will then get loaded with all the short journeys and business journeys which the car currently does, as well as adding several thousand more miles a year to its engine. Looking at around £1000 pre-emptive repair cost on the car...

That’s because they don’t make them like they used to, some of the old 70s,80s,90s,2000s vehicles have chains that havnt been touched
Ours is March 2005 vehicle chain driven that’s not been touched so over 20 years old, how much has that saved in changing the flimsy bit of rubber?

My Romanian / German friends have just had their 2012 Mercedes C-Class chain changed at 280,000 km .

He’s an HGV mechanic but didn’t want to get involved with doing the job himself.

To be fair, the car is very well maintained. New shocks, new EGR . It’s immaculate underneath .

They expect to run it for at least another 120,000 km . But it’s cheaper than buying or renting a new model.

I think you will find a lot of ex owners that disagree with that.

But yes it’s not only Ford, JLR's ingenium engine is so bad that some used car dealers won't take them in and the SD/TD V6's are suffering from snapping crankshafts. Then you have Navarra picksups snapping in half and what we all know about Comfortmatics. It really is a minefield out there, even the Japanese are having problems.

My 2001 BMW M3 Camshaft broke in half at 4,000 miles. I ended up demanding BMW took it back. They did, eventually.

 

[EuroTrotters]

I thought this was interesting recarding maintenance costs, and polition reduction.

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He talks a lot of sense . I agree

 

[Silver-Fox]

Ford have produced some good engines in the past, it comes down to the finances nearly all manufactures do joint efforts on engines and other parts.

Agreed, probably their finest being the 2.4 direct injection as fitted in the smiley transit

 

[Silver-Fox]

Why doesn’t someone invent a kind of pushrod that’s driven by the engine and runs in “time” with the cylinder head valves. This rod could then go up onto a rocker shaft and in the process, we could then move the cam shaft to the middle of the engine and use cam followers to prevent wear and tear. The rocker shaft could then be adjustable, so that as the engine wears, you can take up the wear by simply adjusting something like a rocker bolt and locknut to secure it. Of course, you’d need to design a simple set of gauges to do the adjustments and at set service intervals, but as the gauges would need to “feel” the resistance of the adjustment, we could call them feeler gauges. The entire system could be bathed in oil to reduce wear and tear, dissipate heat and remove sludge etc.

Might write a letter to Mr Ford and see what he says, as it could end the need to change these belts and chains forever.

Clever PP Bear

You would be onto a winner.

But that would starve main dealers of a very profitable revenue stream

 

[Cowpat]

if u can do belts you can do a wet belt its the same princeable it justs a bit messy and antiquated

I agree the point I was making is the prevalence of problems with them and how disastrous a failure can be

 

[PP Bear]

Thinking on, I’ve often heard people in pubs talking about piston broke, but I don’t think that’s the same

 

[Lenny HB]

Thinking on, I’ve often heard people in pubs talking about piston broke, but I don’t think that’s the same

That's the name of my local.
There is an F1 engine block behind the bar.