Welsh Aires ?

[chaser]

Don't know if it's been mentioned IV not seen it before.
Apparently campsites don't like it.
"Gwynedd plan to tackle campervan and motorhome problems divides opinion - North Wales Live" https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/no...-plan-tackle-campervan-motorhome-22102978.amp

 

[Barryh]

I see this this from both sides of the fence. As a motorhomer, free or low cost overnights absolutely. As a (former) campsite owner in an area of England that already had good opportunities for wild camping, absolutely not. Losing just one motorhome at an average of £20 per night would cost me between £4-5000 across a season. And when one motorhome becomes two or more it’s a sizeable loss for a family business.

 

[mikebeaches]

Yes, I thought I'd read about the proposal - it was certainly mentioned in this thread:

Broken Link Removed

 

[David and Sally]

I see this this from both sides of the fence. As a motorhomer, free or low cost overnights absolutely. As a (former) campsite owner in an area of England that already had good opportunities for wild camping, absolutely not. Losing just one motorhome at an average of £20 per night would cost me between £4-5000 across a season. And when one motorhome becomes two or more it’s a sizeable loss for a family business.

But would those motorhome who use aires pay to use your site?
We always use sites so are very unlikely to abandon them for an aire.

 

[Barryh]

Yes, because like us they used a mix of stays. However they would often move on rather than take a second night, particularly after discovering a wild spot. As I say, it only takes one not to stay to make a big hole in your income. Thankfully, ten years ago motorhomes were in a minority, albeit sizeable. I think the impact would be worse today.

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[Mikey RV]

I think the peaple that use the aires for just a night stopover would not stay on campsites anyway, they would just park up for the night somewhere. So I don’t think it will effect campsites. Peaple who stay in campsites do so because they like being in a campsites.

 

[David and Sally]

I think the peaple that use the aires for just a night stopover would not stay on campsites anyway, they would just park up for the night somewhere. So I don’t think it will effect campsites. Peaple who stay in campsites do so because they like being in a campsites.

That was my thinking too. We like the facilities so are prepared to pay.

 

[Vipar]

The. More we cater for all types of travellers the better for all. More MH sold less money for the French.

 

[TDub49]

Seems there is an assumption that these will be free parking areas rather than 'aires de service' - unless Welsh councils have bottomless pockets, I can't see them providing free facilities that require cleaning and maintenance. And as for calling free parking in an all home comforts motorhome "wild camping" I despair . . .

 

[DT]

MH's and owners get very bad publicity in the local North Wales press so if Gwynedd are successful in setting these up lets hope everyone uses and and is respectful to the locals.

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[Lenny HB]

I don't get the argument from campsite owners, most of us who like Aires and wilding wouldn't stay on a site so it makes no difference to them.

Apart from a few rallies we don't bother with the UK because we are made to feel unwelcome. If there was a decent network of Aires we would probably do quite a bit of touring in the UK. At the moment it's far easier to pop across the channel where we are welcome.

 

[phase3begins]

Not convinced that some of those that park ‘where we want, when we want’ would actually use spaces in car parks.

there will be the usual we wont be regimented, we won’t pay brigade who will continue as usual.

 

[gus-lopez]

But would those motorhome who use aires pay to use your site?

No. I don't even use aires.

I think the peaple that use the aires for just a night stopover would not stay on campsites anyway,

No I'd certainly never stay on a campsite with any type of amenities like swimming pools, bars , restaurant, club , etc;etc.

 

[pagey]

powis council already allow parking in their carparks overnight for £8 we stayed in several this year some had toilets and water

 

[chaser]

I see this this from both sides of the fence. As a motorhomer, free or low cost overnights absolutely. As a (former) campsite owner in an area of England that already had good opportunities for wild camping, absolutely not. Losing just one motorhome at an average of £20 per night would cost me between £4-5000 across a season. And when one motorhome becomes two or more it’s a sizeable loss for a family business.

I don't think it is up to councils to provide a living for campsites.

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[Barryh]

I don't get the argument from campsite owners, most of us who like Aires and wilding wouldn't stay on a site so it makes no difference to them.

As I say, I like free stops as much as the next man when I’m in the MH. But from my experience the majority of motorhomers were not absolute in their choice of stopover, using all forms depending on the circumstances. So yes it did make a difference. If you go to say eddievanbitz for some work, would you stay overnight on his nice campsite or find something else less regimented?

 

[Barryh]

I don't think it is up to councils to provide a living for campsites.

Sorry, I don’t remember the council providing me with a living. What I do remember is the council thanking me and my wife for reintroducing tourism to the locality and reinvigorating the local economy.

 

[Lenny HB]

As I say, I like free stops as much as the next man when I’m in the MH. But from my experience the majority of motorhomers were not absolute in their choice of stopover, using all forms depending on the circumstances. So yes it did make a difference. If you go to say eddievanbitz for some work, would you stay overnight on his nice campsite or find something else less regimented?

That is a bit of a stupid suggestion.
I wouldn't go there because that type of work I do myself, however if you have work done he let's you stay there for free so no reason not to.

 

[Barryh]

That is a bit of a stupid suggestion.
I wouldn't go there because that type of work I do myself, however if you have work done he let's you stay there for free so no reason not to.

Ah so you will do regimented if is free?

 

[Lenny HB]

Ah so you will do regimented if is free?

Where did I say I didn't do regimented I just don't particularly like sites or the prices they charge. I spent fortune on a fully equipped van so why would I want to pay for services I don't need.
I'm on an Aire at the moment with about a 100 vans on it & it's expensive €11 for 24 hours.

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[jongood]

I see this this from both sides of the fence. As a motorhomer, free or low cost overnights absolutely. As a (former) campsite owner in an area of England that already had good opportunities for wild camping, absolutely not. Losing just one motorhome at an average of £20 per night would cost me between £4-5000 across a season. And when one motorhome becomes two or more it’s a sizeable loss for a family business.

I think its great news. It would definitley encourage me to go to North Wales( which is only an hour and a bit from me) more

They say that none of their campsites struggled with capacity in the last 2 seasons, thats because they spent most of the time closed! even at times when they didnt have to. Shell island is one of the few North Wales Campsites I like and that closed over a month ago. Many of the others are horrible, The Barmouth one being particularly bad, stuck in a bombhole between the cliff and the railway line with No view at all.

 

[Barryh]

Where did I say I didn't do regimented I just don't particularly like sites or the prices they charge. I spent fortune on a fully equipped van so why would I want to pay for services I don't need.
I'm on an Aire at the moment with about a 100 vans on it & it's expensive €11 for 24 hours.

Hornfleur, and it’s lovely. I wish I was there. So people stop according to circumstance and from my experience motorhomers are more flexible in their choices than you portray them.

 

[jongood]

Seems there is an assumption that these will be free parking areas rather than 'aires de service' - unless Welsh councils have bottomless pockets, I can't see them providing free facilities that require cleaning and maintenance. And as for calling free parking in an all home comforts motorhome "wild camping" I despair . . .

We require nothing more than a space in a position thats either convenient or with a nice view. We do use campsites as well but rarely use their facilities and can easily last a week without servicing.

Edit to say - No problem with paying for it, if its a great spot we expect to pay a decent price.

 

[GJH]

I don't think it is up to councils to provide a living for campsites.

On that basis neither is it up to councils to provide aires for people who don't like to pay caravan site fees

Perhaps a compromise would be to bring in the official aires and crack down on pubs and the like which allow camping without the required licencing being in place

 

[chaser]

Sorry, I don’t remember the council providing me with a living. What I do remember is the council thanking me and my wife for reintroducing tourism to the locality and reinvigorating the local economy.

I wasn't talking of you personally, but is there any difference between the council opening these Aires, or granting permission for another campsite in compition to the campsites already there.

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[chaser]

On that basis neither is it up to councils to provide aires for people who don't like to pay caravan site fees

Perhaps a compromise would be to bring in the official aires and crack down on pubs and the like which allow camping without the required licencing being in place

I can't see these councils provide these carpark Aires for free, just something that they should have done years ago by using a resource that is already there.

 

[jongood]

I notice they are quoting Beddgelert Campsite. I tried to stay there, about 3 years ago, The entrance is at least a mile out Beddgelert along a road that aint going to be clever to walk along at night and then you've got an unlit track of another 1/2 mile?? This nicely illustrates the difference between the requirements of a Caravanner and a Motorhomer. Too many people in UK think a MH is just a self propelled caravan.

 

[Skez]

The quote below from that article shows that some people just don't get it - Some motorhome users, myself included, just don't like campsites. Cost is irrelevant, and this attitude / opinion just drives me across the channel.

Another caravan site owner thought the pilot scheme was the "stupidest idea ever".

"I would suggest if someone can afford a £40,000 campervan or motorhome, they can afford £20 to stay on a site with proper facilities,” he said.

 

[Barryh]

I wasn't talking of you personally, but is there any difference between the council opening these Aires, or granting permission for another campsite in compition to the campsites already there.

Well it’s quite a big difference really. Another campsite would have to compete on a level playing field. A council run aire would be in direct competition but subsidised by the local taxpayer, my large tax sum included. At the risk of a “stupid suggestion” If you were a shopkeeper selling widgets and the council said they were going to open a shop next door giving away not quite widgets, but near enough, would you think it was a good idea?

 

[GJH]

I can't see these councils provide these carpark Aires for free, just something that they should have done years ago by using a resource that is already there.

As the comments on this thread (and those over the last several years) prove, the fact that an apparent resource is there does not mean it is a suitable resource for a change of use.
Councils have no option but to avoid harming local businesses which provide employment and other income for their areas, be they caravan sites, farms, shops or any other types of business.

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