VW T4's (with autosleeper). What to look for?

[bennyyorkie]

Hi,
I read a very interesting article on autosleepers (Trooper and Trident) on VW bases.
https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/advice/47007-used-auto-sleeper-trooper-trident-buyers-guide

Its very interesting to hear that there are some problems with the VW's particularly with the coolant and rust on some models.
Its great the article points out the problems to look out for but it doesn't really say which models or years were better?
I dont know much about the VW's other than they have a reputation for being very reliable, well built vans. Which I guess is why this article surprised me a bit. Whats your experience of them?
I'm guessing the quality of the vans have changed over time...and with the way most things go, that could be a change for the worse? With my budget (20 k max) , I'd be looking at a mid 90s van anyway so would be great to hear more about them.
The coolest thing is a bit shocking....and pretty impossible to check unless theres a full dealership history..which is pretty rare Id say.

 

[SpeedyDux]

For £20K you could get a late model T4 base campervan from 2002 or 2003. With the desirable 2.5 TDi engine and cab aircon.

Based on personal experience I wouldn't say that VW T4s are especially reliable although they have a better reputation than the early T5s. A well cared for T4 is still a good buy. I had bad experiences with VW dealers (expensive and not good at fault finding). There are independent T4 specialists recommended by the forums - much better. Check that the cambelt and water pump have been changed. Should be no longer than 4 years between changes. Tyres should be not more than 5 years old same as any MH even if plenty of tread left.

Check for rust around wheelarches and windscreen.

Good luck!

 

[Deleted member 57092]

Vans are designed to do high mileages carrying heavy loads for perhaps five to eight years maximum and then be scrapped.
All sorts of unforseen problems arise from low annual mileage and spending their time mostly parked like motorhomes and campers usually are.
In my experience of old vw transporters (mot tester and garage owner for twenty years plus) they rot like hell and despite their cult following have plenty of mechanical problems too.
Fortunately all the repair panels are available.
As a mechanic I hated them.
We used to describe them as ‘somewhere comfy to sit whilst you wait for the RAC...again’

 

[rangi]

We have a 1992Clubman GL, tiz only a 2 berth, Storage is a problem, it's not insurmountable, just shorten down on the tackle you take with you, AND! be strong when Swmbo demands you take the Kitchen sink! (either that or buy a trailer!)
Main areas for damp is around the rooflights and the bottoms of the windows, the body is in one piece.
The T4 cab has problems, bottom of doors, around the front mudguards, you can tell if the spot weld marks around the rims are "not there". The Wheel arches IN the cab bodged under the carpet is another sign. Around the bottom of the windscreen is another thing to look for.

If you are lucky enough to have a single piece front bumper, and a three piece valance immediately above, then you have a classic.

Something that age, is now a problem getting certain parts, Petrol engines are rare, so more of an attraction for the more masochistic with thick wallets, Speeding along at 55mph and taking her up to warp speed on the motorway of 60mph, well! 18-20 mpg?

There are artisans that recondition the gas bits and pieces (Google is your friend here!) And on the other side there are snobs that quote you for repairs prices that give you the need to partake of a fifth mortgage "because we don't work on M'H that old" the fella in Scorrier a classic example of that thinking.

There are a heap of jobs you can do yourself with a bit of forethought and commonsense

And finally! there is the Autosleeper Owners Forum (once again Google is your friend)

Good luck anyway, whichever way you go.

 

[Deleted member 57092]

Quite likely if they were rustproofed properly from new then they would last.
Except they were never intended to last for thirty years so no one bothered.

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[Nasher]

Not sure if I should link to another forum but there is a VWT4 forum that may have more info for those particular vehicles

Be careful, many on there are lovers of all things VW & may be a bit biased

Remember, the legendary reliability of VW's is a bit (a lot) of a myth in my experience

 

[bennyyorkie]

Vans are designed to do high mileages carrying heavy loads for perhaps five to eight years maximum and then be scrapped.
All sorts of unforseen problems arise from low annual mileage and spending their time mostly parked like motorhomes and campers usually are.
In my experience of old vw transporters (mot tester and garage owner for twenty years plus) they rot like hell and despite their cult following have plenty of mechanical problems too.
Fortunately all the repair panels are available.
As a mechanic I hated them.
We used to describe them as ‘somewhere comfy to sit whilst you wait for the RAC...again’

I really appreciate your honest reply and I know it makes sense about the vans lifespan. But I am getting frustrated! everywhere I look, for a reliable engine I come up with nothing. Rust seems to be the killer for all of them...ford transit, merz Sprinter, flat... the only built to last van I can find is the toyota hiace...and of course....parts are questionable for them as all the hiace campers are japanese imports, and a company i contacted in Japan who specialize in selling parts abroad..they say parts could be pretty tricky. In your experience in the trade, is there any van base made in the 90's/early 00's which is not a rust bucket and actually has an engine worth talking about? I drive a super reliable 20 year old toyota avensis (low milage and completely rust free...how I dont know?) and Im beginning to think I wont find that kind of reliability and build quality in a camper of the same age I guess Ive been spoilt!
Im starting to wonder if I'd be better off holding out for a few years and upping my budget to 30 k. Bit like Im banging my head on a brick wall!

 

[bennyyorkie]

i

 

[bennyyorkie]

We have a 1992Clubman GL, tiz only a 2 berth, Storage is a problem, it's not insurmountable, just shorten down on the tackle you take with you, AND! be strong when Swmbo demands you take the Kitchen sink! (either that or buy a trailer!)
Main areas for damp is around the rooflights and the bottoms of the windows, the body is in one piece.
The T4 cab has problems, bottom of doors, around the front mudguards, you can tell if the spot weld marks around the rims are "not there". The Wheel arches IN the cab bodged under the carpet is another sign. Around the bottom of the windscreen is another thing to look for.

If you are lucky enough to have a single piece front bumper, and a three piece valance immediately above, then you have a classic.

Something that age, is now a problem getting certain parts, Petrol engines are rare, so more of an attraction for the more masochistic with thick wallets, Speeding along at 55mph and taking her up to warp speed on the motorway of 60mph, well! 18-20 mpg?

There are artisans that recondition the gas bits and pieces (Google is your friend here!) And on the other side there are snobs that quote you for repairs prices that give you the need to partake of a fifth mortgage "because we don't work on M'H that old" the fella in Scorrier a classic example of that thinking.

There are a heap of jobs you can do yourself with a bit of forethought and commonsense

And finally! there is the Autosleeper Owners Forum (once again Google is your friend)

Good luck anyway, whichever way you go.

Thats really interesting and a pretty funny read...."a fifth mortgage"!!! O dear! Im a bit puzzled when you said
"If you are lucky enough to have a single piece front bumper, and a three piece valance immediately above, then you have a classic."
Is that a certain year or model?
Many thanks

 

[Deleted member 57092]

Grey import from Japan then waxoyl it thoroughly before it gets exposed to our salted roads ?
Mazda bongos were a big thing ten years ago
A fair few porsches ,etc ,etc turning up on ebay at the moment having been imported from (RHD) japan so that trade is still obviously alive.
Maybe chat to a japanese grey import specialist and see whats available ?
Who knows they might be able to source a rot free VW ?!

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[Deleted member 57092]

In classic vehicle circles the whole ‘three piece valance ,one piece bumper ‘ thing goes into a whole new dimension.
Its referred to as ‘correct’
As in
‘Haw haw I see that the boot latch striker on your supposedly 1968 ford escort glxrdgt is actually correct for a 1972 boreham built 1300gxl estate’
(Said in a nasal accent by a chap with no lady in his life or actual ford escort of that era in evidence obviously)

 

[TheBig1]

vw over priced, over hyped and under powered rust buckets

 

[2657]

I really appreciate your honest reply and I know it makes sense about the vans lifespan. But I am getting frustrated! everywhere I look, for a reliable engine I come up with nothing. Rust seems to be the killer for all of them...ford transit, merz Sprinter, flat... the only built to last van I can find is the toyota hiace...and of course....parts are questionable for them as all the hiace campers are japanese imports, and a company i contacted in Japan who specialize in selling parts abroad..they say parts could be pretty tricky. In your experience in the trade, is there any van base made in the 90's/early 00's which is not a rust bucket and actually has an engine worth talking about? I drive a super reliable 20 year old toyota avensis (low milage and completely rust free...how I dont know?) and Im beginning to think I wont find that kind of reliability and build quality in a camper of the same age I guess Ive been spoilt!
Im starting to wonder if I'd be better off holding out for a few years and upping my budget to 30 k. Bit like Im banging my head on a brick wall!

My daughter bought a Japanese import Toyota Hiace 2 years ago, 1998 with a Reimo pop top, converted in Japan and imported by a firm in Chesterfield.

A few electrical problems and a power steering pipe assembly, replaced under warranty, waxoyled on import as chassis like new on import, she is very pleased with it.

A bit of a chugger and not the best on fuel but the engine is reputed to be bulletproof.

Why not try and have a look at some recent imports, personally I would not go for one that has been in the country for more than a few years unless it has been waxoyled every year. Lots of high top Hiace's about but the older models are becoming rarer as new imports, look on Autotrader and Ebay.

 

[Nasher]

3 years ago I bought a 4 year old 35,000 mile peugeot Boxer van

Unlike the Transits, VW Crafters & Merc Sprinters they are galvanised so don't suffer the rust problems

I paid a local conversion company to convert it to my design and 3 years on I still think of it as the perfect van for me. Other than servicing & a stone damaged radiator (hopefully my new Zunsport grilles will prevent reoccurrence) it has had no problems

Cost for van & conversion was around 17 grand in total and I could have had it done for less by compromising on a few things

That might be a solution for you?

As someone who restores classic race bikes for fun (rather than money) I will quote from The Big Bang Theory:

Howard: Look at this. Trent is rebuilding a vintage motorcycle.

Raj: That is so cool. Old broken things are so much better than new things that work

Unless you have the skills, knowledge, enthusiasm and time to keep something old going, it will be a money pit

 

[Deleted member 57092]

Too true
People rave about 60’s mini coopers
Mg midgets
Mgb’s
I had all of them
I have the skills and knowledge to have one and could easily afford a few but,
Any modern car ,even little ones will do every single thing better.
However
They were simple and possible for the home mechanic to keep running
Unlike the designed in obsolescence we buy today.

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[bennyyorkie]

My daughter bought a Japanese import Toyota Hiace 2 years ago, 1998 with a Reimo pop top, converted in Japan and imported by a firm in Chesterfield.

A few electrical problems and a power steering pipe assembly, replaced under warranty, waxoyled on import as chassis like new on import, she is very pleased with it.

A bit of a chugger and not the best on fuel but the engine is reputed to be bulletproof.

Why not try and have a look at some recent imports, personally I would not go for one that has been in the country for more than a few years unless it has been waxoyled every year. Lots of high top Hiace's about but the older models are becoming rarer as new imports, look on Autotrader and Ebay.

You know I have a sneaking feeling that I'll end up with a hiace after all my searching. I suppose she hasnt had to go looking for parts (other then as you mentioned) since she bought it? Which speaks for itself really on their reliability! I guess im just a bit scared of being stranded somewhere alone and being told "we should have the part with you in about 3 or 4 weeks!" but I have also read online that there is a similarity between the hiace and hilux, where would make mechanical parts easier to find. And hiace was made up to 2012, so if I was to save my pennies I could look at a younger model, where parts would be easier/quicker to source. But dare i say, the older models are very nice to look at!! I love older things anyway...but must be sensible when spending!
She is very lucky to have one...everywhere ive read they are described as "legendary".

 

[Deleted member 57092]

I used to sell a few hiluxes
‘As approved by hesbollah’
Was my tagline
On the basis that if they could be driven flat out across the desert with a brace of 50cal mounted on the back then they would probably hang together delivering milk/logs etc in wales !

 

[Nasher]

. But dare i say, the older models are very nice to look at!! I love older things anyway...but must be sensible when spending

I think you may need to decide whether you want a motorhome for having adventures in, or a classic van for tinkering with....

Can I ask if you have an aptitude for fixing things ? As that may be a deciding factor for you

 

[bennyyorkie]

I think you may need to decide whether you want a motorhome for having adventures in, or a classic van for tinkering with....

Can I ask if you have an aptitude for fixing things ? As that may be a deciding factor for you

Does restoring 100 year old sewing machines and gramophones count..hehe! have mechanic/engineer in the family so if and when I get my act together and actually buy something, will be doing some studying and taking some free lectures!

 

[2657]

You know I have a sneaking feeling that I'll end up with a hiace after all my searching. I suppose she hasnt had to go looking for parts (other then as you mentioned) since she bought it? Which speaks for itself really on their reliability! I guess im just a bit scared of being stranded somewhere alone and being told "we should have the part with you in about 3 or 4 weeks!" but I have also read online that there is a similarity between the hiace and hilux, where would make mechanical parts easier to find. And hiace was made up to 2012, so if I was to save my pennies I could look at a younger model, where parts would be easier/quicker to source. But dare i say, the older models are very nice to look at!! I love older things anyway...but must be sensible when spending!
She is very lucky to have one...everywhere ive read they are described as "legendary".

Must admit that I never thought about the parts situation as the Hiace was/is such a popular vehicle throughout Europe. The cam belt etc was changed by the importer so I assume that parts are easily available.

I spend winters in Portugal and the number of old 'well used' Hiace's on the road is remarkable.

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[SpeedyDux]

2 things that the VW T4s have going for them:

1. The "scene" and strong demand means low depreciation. After 10 years' ownership I sold mine for about £1k less than I paid for it.

2. Diesel consumption is excellent. 40 mpg easily possible, range on a tankful of 800 miles (1200 km) and that was with the autobox.

 

[rangi]

In classic vehicle circles the whole ‘three piece valance ,one piece bumper ‘ thing goes into a whole new dimension.
Its referred to as ‘correct’
)

Up to 1993, another sign is the Amber indicator lens, after 93 they were clear with an orange bulb

 

[fursty ferret]

Hi We have a 1996 VWT4 Compass Calypso which has really stood up to the test of time as bodywork is still very good &under neath just has a little surface rust here &there but I do think it has a galvanised chassis. Engine still sweet as a nut but it gets a full service each year as it's a diesel 2.4 &although it's a bit sluggish it will still cruise at 70 mph on the flat & downhills. Think it depends a lot on the actual model of moho you choose. Good Luck & Happy Camping. Gray & Pat.