Victron MPPT 100/50 earth question.

[Dall]

I am busy doubling up my solar and to cope with the extra umph, reluctantly my totally trustworthy Votronic MPPT 350 has to be changed for a Victron 100/50.
The Victron is still in transit, but reading the manual, I see there is an earth connection on the controller - is this earth necessary? My Votronic does not need one.
BTW, once the upgrade is done, i will be listing the Votronic, including display and temperature probe (needed for lithium) in the classified section. It's 2 years old, okay up to 350 watts of solar and works a treat with lithium while maintaining the starter battery as well.

 

[autorouter]

The Victron solar controller is designed to be installed in many different situations, including on boats,where the earth is kept separate from the DC negative. In a motorhome situation, you can just connect the earth to the battery negative. That's what will have been done inside the Votronic anyway.

As you've probably already found out, to measure temperature you can usually fit a temperature sensor on the battery, wired back to the solar controller. An alternative is to use a Victron SmartSense battery sensor. It literally sticks on the side of the battery, and reports the battery voltage and temperature via Bluetooth. So no wire required.

If you are fitting a Victron BMV shunt or a SmartShunt then the SmartSense is not required, the Victron solar controller can read the data from them if you want.

 

[Dall]

The Victron solar controller is designed to be installed in many different situations, including on boats,where the earth is kept separate from the DC negative. In a motorhome situation, you can just connect the earth to the battery negative. That's what will have been done inside the Votronic anyway.

As you've probably already found out, to measure temperature you can usually fit a temperature sensor on the battery, wired back to the solar controller. An alternative is to use a Victron SmartSense battery sensor. It literally sticks on the side of the battery, and reports the battery voltage and temperature via Bluetooth. So no wire required.

If you are fitting a Victron BMV shunt or a SmartShunt then the SmartSense is not required, the Victron solar controller can read the data from them if you want.

Thanks for your response - it's much appreciated!
I will earth via the battery negative connection and I already have a smart shut in the system.

 

[fishplug]

Interesting...

My 100/50 is currently in a 'jerry rigged' state and I'm pretty sure I haven't earthed it to anything but it's working just fine. I'll double check later....

 

[herald_400rl]

Interesting...

My 100/50 is currently in a 'jerry rigged' state and I'm pretty sure I haven't earthed it to anything but it's working just fine. I'll double check later....

I thought only the 100/30 has a separate ground:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual_BlueSolar_100-30__100-50/29694-MPPT_solar_charger_manual-pdf-en.pdf

 

[fishplug]

My old 100/30 was definitely grounded.

 

[herald_400rl]

My old 100/30 was definitely grounded.

Mine is. But the deconstructions state only for the 30a.

 

[thehutchies]

I fitted a 100/50 a few days ago. It definitely has a ground.

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[fishplug]

I'd best check then....

 

[thehutchies]

I'd best check then....

From the manual, though:

'The appliance is double insulated and does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).'

And:

 

[fishplug]

Thanks thehutchies - I'm normally pretty good about reading the destructions, but the OPs question had me thinking I might not have done so as carefully as I should.

So, it looks like mine is working fine because it's a perfectly acceptable way of wiring it up!

 

[Dall]

From the manual, though:

'The appliance is double insulated and does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).'

And:

View attachment 1059098

The above no longer appears in the latest download of the manual, instead it has the following:

4.4. Grounding
Battery grounding
The solar charger can be installed in a positive or in a negative grounded system.
Apply a single ground connection, preferably close to the battery, to prevent system issues or ground loops.
Chassis grounding (only for the 30A model)
A separate ground path for the chassis ground is permitted because the chassis is isolated from the positive and the negative
terminals.

So I read that it needs to be grounded and I presume that negative to the battery will do that and for some reason the 30Amp version needs additional chassis grounding.

 

[thehutchies]

The above no longer appears in the latest download of the manual, instead it has the following:

4.4. Grounding
Battery grounding
The solar charger can be installed in a positive or in a negative grounded system.
Apply a single ground connection, preferably close to the battery, to prevent system issues or ground loops.
Chassis grounding (only for the 30A model)
A separate ground path for the chassis ground is permitted because the chassis is isolated from the positive and the negative
terminals.

So I read that it needs to be grounded and I presume that negative to the battery will do that and for some reason the 30Amp version needs additional chassis grounding.

Scroll down to 4.6 and you will see the wiring diagram.
1.3 refers to not needing a ground.

 

[Dall]

Scroll down to 4.6 and you will see the wiring diagram.
1.3 refers to not needing a ground.

Thanks. I see it now - hidden in on the symbols list.

 

[thehutchies]

Thanks. I see it now - hidden in on the symbols list.

Now I'm wondering if the design of the 100/50 has been changed to include a ground, but the manual hasn't been altered.
As it's under my bed, if I don't burn to death in the night, I'll have a better look in the morning.

 

[Raul]

This has come up several times, and the confusion is to do with the wrong terminology used by the users. Grounding and Earthing are two different things and for different purposes. Note, the victron manual does not mention earthing, but grounding, because the unit may be used in a environment where AC power is used and regulations may require the need for all metal extraneous parts to be grounded to earth.
In a vehicle we don’t have earthing as such, but we can ground to earth when we plug in, as the metal parts have become extraneous with an AC power coming in now. Usually the chassis is the default grounding for earthing purposes. If your ehu earth is chassis ground then all your grounds go to chassis, or a multi earth terminal block.

However, if the unit is double insulated, and the mounting is not in contact with other metallic parts, grounding is useless, in fact you are creating an unnecessary fault path to your casing.
Read and trust the manual.

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[AdrianChen]

I thought only the 100/30 has a separate ground:

https://www.victronenergy.com/upload/documents/Manual_BlueSolar_100-30__100-50/29694-MPPT_solar_charger_manual-pdf-en.pdf

View attachment 1059000

Hmmm would have to check, but I'm pretty sure my 100/50 has a ground connection on the heat sink, which I have connected to the vehicle chassis.

 

[thehutchies]

This has come up several times, and the confusion is to do with the wrong terminology used by the users. Grounding and Earthing are two different things and for different purposes. Note, the victron manual does not mention earthing, but grounding, because the unit may be used in a environment where AC power is used and regulations may require the need for all metal extraneous parts to be grounded to earth.
In a vehicle we don’t have earthing as such, but we can ground to earth when we plug in, as the metal parts have become extraneous with an AC power coming in now. Usually the chassis is the default grounding for earthing purposes. If your ehu earth is chassis ground then all your grounds go to chassis, or a multi earth terminal block.

However, if the unit is double insulated, and the mounting is not in contact with other metallic parts, grounding is useless, in fact you are creating an unnecessary fault path to your casing.
Read and trust the manual.

The manual makes several references to earthing, as well as grounding, sometimes in the same sentence :

'The appliance is double insulated and does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).'

'Earth (ground) symbol Indicates the position of the Earth ground terminal .'

 

[Dall]

The manual makes several references to earthing, as well as grounding, sometimes in the same sentence :

'The appliance is double insulated and does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).'

'Earth (ground) symbol Indicates the position of the Earth ground terminal .'

The multiple references in the manual to "earth" and or "ground" along with (what seems to me) adding confusion in the way the manual is written and the fact that the unit has a ground connection point is why I originally posted this topic.

 

[thehutchies]

The multiple references in the manual to "earth" and or "ground" along with (what seems to me) adding confusion in the way the manual is written and the fact that the unit has a ground connection point is why I originally posted this topic.

Regarding manuals:

`But they're from the factory,'' John says. I'm from the factory too,'' I say and I know how instructions like this are put together. You go out on the assembly line with a tape recorder and the foreman sends you to talk to the guy he needs least, the biggest goof-off he's got, and whatever he tells you...that's the instructions. The next guy might have told you something completely different and probably better, but he's too busy.'' They all look surprised. `I might have known,'' DeWeese says.

-Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance​

 

[Raul]

The appliance is double insulated and does not require a safety connection to electrical earth (ground).'

Agree,
and yes it makes reference to earthing, but, that is entirely dependable on the specifics of install/ applications.
In UK, regs require ALL extraneous parts to be earthed. On certain applications earthing is dealt with differently, boats.
In short, is up to the installer to know his onions. It can be fitted with, or without earth, design and application dependable.

 

[Dall]

Hmmm would have to check, but I'm pretty sure my 100/50 has a ground connection on the heat sink, which I have connected to the vehicle chassis.

My 100/50 has arrived and it definitely has a screw to connect (according to manual) to "earth ground" .......................

 

[herald_400rl]

My 100/50 has arrived and it definitely has a screw to connect (according to manual) to "earth ground" ....................... View attachment 1059452

The manual is full of deceit!

 

[thehutchies]

If you are uncertain about it, I think everyone would agree that you should connect it to the battery negative

My 100/50 has arrived and it definitely has a screw to connect (according to manual) to "earth ground" ....................... View attachment 1059452

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