Victron B2B and Vanbitz Battery Master query

[RichardB]

Hi all
Currently have a battery master connected between my leisure and van battery. Its on some small 2.5mm cable run between them.
I am fitting a Victron B2B with 16mm cable, instead of having the additional cable for the battery master is there any reason I can’t just connect the battery master directly to cables for the B2B or just direct to the terminals of the B2B - on that basis that both go back to the same place I think of should be fine…

 

[Googlebot]

Hi all
Currently have a battery master connected between my leisure and van battery. Its on some small 2.5mm cable run between them.
I am fitting a Victron B2B with 16mm cable, instead of having the additional cable for the battery master is there any reason I can’t just connect the battery master directly to cables i am running for the B2B - on that basis that both go back to the same place I think of should be fine…

That’s what I would do.

 

[Spanner]

That’s what I did as well, simple and works fine

 

[royandsharont]

Sorry to jump in but does that also mean if you had a factory fitted B2B, as on the new Ducato auto, you could add a battery master using the existing wires to save having to route new cables between the two?

 

[eddie]

Hi all
Currently have a battery master connected between my leisure and van battery. Its on some small 2.5mm cable run between them.
I am fitting a Victron B2B with 16mm cable, instead of having the additional cable for the battery master is there any reason I can’t just connect the battery master directly to cables for the B2B or just direct to the terminals of the B2B - on that basis that both go back to the same place I think of should be fine…

And you'd be right

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[autorouter]

Sorry to jump in but does that also mean if you had a factory fitted B2B, as on the new Ducato auto, you could add a battery master using the existing wires to save having to route new cables between the two?

Yes, that will be a good way to do it. The tiny extra load of the Battery Master will not be a problem for the B2B wires.

 

[seanwinder22]

Sorry to comment on a old thread but I wanted to know how you got on with the battery mastery ? I had one fitted but I’m having issues my mppt charge is actually turning my Dc to Dc charger on . Even tho on the b2b settings it’s 14 start up
Or on ehu it does the same the b2b starts. it’s obviously running threw the battery master because was fine until I fitted . If I change the settings more on the b2b then it won’t turn on when the engine is started ??

 

[eddie]

Sorry to comment on a old thread but I wanted to know how you got on with the battery mastery ? I had one fitted but I’m having issues my mppt charge is actually turning my Dc to Dc charger on . Even tho on the b2b settings it’s 14 start up
Or on ehu it does the same the b2b starts. it’s obviously running threw the battery master because was fine until I fitted . If I change the settings more on the b2b then it won’t turn on when the engine is started ??

Connect your B2B to the D+

That way the B2B will only ever work when the engine is running.

 

[seanwinder22]

Connect your B2B to the D+

That way the B2B will only ever work when the engine is running.

Thanks buddy I was just looking into this . How is this done

 

[seanwinder22]

Thanks buddy I was just looking into this . How is this done

Does anyone know what awg wire for the D+ signal to the b2b to use

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[eddie]

Thanks buddy I was just looking into this . How is this done

What make is your B2B?

The wire is only a signal wire so 0.75 would be fine

 

[seanwinder22]

What make is your B2B?

The wire is only a signal wire so 0.75 would be fine

It’s a Victron b2b 30 amp would 20awg silicon wire be ok ? I have some left over is all

 

[eddie]

It’s a Victron b2b 30 amp would 20awg silicon wire be ok ? I have some left over is all

Orion?

 

[seanwinder22]

Orion?

Yea

 

[seanwinder22]

Orion?

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[seanwinder22]

That’s the one I have

 

[eddie]

4. Installation

www.victronenergy.com

There you go, take your pick of ways to ensure that its only on when you want

 

[seanwinder22]

4. Installation

www.victronenergy.com

There you go, take your pick of ways to ensure that its only on when you want

Thanks I will take a look

 

[seanwinder22]

So am I understanding this right
I wire my D+signal wire to the L side pin but still leaving the black wire in the remote how it comes
I then disable the engine detection option

 

[Hoovie]

So am I understanding this right
I wire my D+signal wire to the L side pin but still leaving the black wire in the remote how it comes
I then disable the engine detection option

You don't need to change any settings on the Victron to add the use of a D+ signal with it.
The green plug is essentially a "Master Control" and if no signal is present, the unit will not run regardless.
You remove the default jumper between the two pins and can then connect in three different ways to allow it to come on ...
Pair of wires on the pins to remote on/off switch - this allows manual ability to force to stay on.
Ground the L pin (I am pretty sure it is the L pin that goes to 0V to allow it to activate, not to +Ve, but check the manual)
put a +Ve line on the H pin - so this is your D+ signal wire if you want the B2B to only come on with Engine running.

Without one of the three above active, the Victron will stay off.

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[seanwinder22]

You don't need to change any settings on the Victron to add the use of a D+ signal with it.
The green plug is essentially a "Master Control" and if no signal is present, the unit will not run regardless.
You remove the default jumper between the two pins and can then connect in three different ways to allow it to come on ...
Pair of wires on the pins to remote on/off switch - this allows manual ability to force to stay on.
Ground the L pin (I am pretty sure it is the L pin that goes to 0V to allow it to activate, not to +Ve, but check the manual)
put a +Ve line on the H pin - so this is your D+ signal wire if you want the B2B to only come on with Engine running.

Without one of the three above active, the Victron will stay off.

Thanks buddy for taking time to explain I appreciate it mate. yes I’m wanting to run a signal wire from the back of the ne221 fuse board as i know which pin is the D+ signal then hopefully ever time I turn ignition on it will start to charge only . Then turn ignition off it will turn off
so a wire from ignition live to the remote bridge wire . The only reason I mentioned leaving the black bridged wire in is because it shows it left in on the instructions you sent yesterday. It just shows a yellow wire running to one side

 

[Hoovie]

If you use a control signal on either the L or the H, you would remove the Jumper/bridge wire for sure.

 

[seanwinder22]

This is what confused me

 

[seanwinder22]

I’m guessing this option is what I need to do then but remove the black wire

 

[seanwinder22]

This option shows the black wire completely removed

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[AgeingAndrew]

When I connected a Noco 5A charger to my starter battery I had to disable the Victron Orion-tr B2B engine shutdown detection to prevent it from trying to charge the LB when SB was on charge. To do this I wired the B2B L pin to permanent 12V +ve and connected the B2B H pin to D+. The Viuctron B2B now is only powered when the engine is running.
I also had to disable engine shutdown detection in VictronConnect.

 

[Hoovie]

This is what confused me

I would ignore that diagram.

 

[seanwinder22]

So I need to remove the black wire bridge totally from the remote
Then my ignition live D+ I wire this to the H pin side which is the right side of the remote
Leave settings alone on Victron app ? is this how I can do it ? then the b2b will start when my ignition starts or turns off when I turn ignition off

 

[Hoovie]

When I connected a Noco 5A charger to my starter battery I had to disable the Victron Orion-tr B2B engine shutdown detection to prevent it from trying to charge the LB when SB was on charge. To do this I wired the B2B L pin to permanent 12V +ve and connected the B2B H pin to D+. The Victron B2B now is only powered when the engine is running.
I also had to disable engine shutdown detection in VictronConnect.

Not sure why you connected the L to +12V? It would have no effect on anything.
I also don't know why you need to disable the Engine Shutdown detection. By doing that, the charger will stay on regardless of the voltage out the alternator and is totally reliant on the D+, which is not that desirable an action IMO.

So I need to remove the black wire bridge totally from the remote
Then my ignition live D+ I wire this to the H pin side which is the right side of the remote
Leave settings alone on Victron app ? is this how I can do it ? then the b2b will start when my ignition starts or turns off when I turn ignition off

OK, I just connected up a 30A Victron Orion-TR Smart charger like you have to a bench supply and took a photo and some screen shoots to explain ...

First the Setup:
I have the black jumper removed and the "H" Pin connected to a probe that will simulate the D+ Signal (all the D+ signal is a +12V line driven by the alternator, nothing special)
A Power Supply is acting as the Starter Battery + Alternator
I have the Victron IN and GND connected, nothing on the OUT.
Looks like this:

Red probe on the black jumper wire is the "D+" and I connect to the Power Supply ("Alternator") when I want to simulate the engine running.

Settings are like this:

So Engine shutdown detection is enabled, and the Voltage start up and shutdwn parameters are below. If you disable shutdown detection, that entire section below the slider toggle will disappear and the charger will turn on and off solely on the remote input signal.
If you want to do that, fine. I don't recommend that.

So to business ...
Power supply is at 12.2V - too low for the Charger to want to turn on no matter what the Remote Input connection ("D+") is

Ramping up the voltage above 14V, and the Probe is connected to the Power Supply so there is a +VE voltage going into the H Pin

If I pull the "D+" power now, the Charger turns off even though the IN voltage has not changed as the Remote Input is no longer present.

Hope this explains how the Victron Voltage parameters and the connections to the Green Remote Input connector work together.

The "Engine shutdown" is not really an *Engine* shutdown as it knows nothing about the state of the engine or the Alternator , it is purely working on Voltage levels. When that feature is enabled (which it should be), then if the voltage is lower than thresholds, the charger stays off regardless of what is happening on the Green remote plug.
AND
If the remote input is not active - either by a jumper between L and H; a LOW signal on L; OR a HIGH signal on H - the charger will stay off regardless of the Voltage levels.



FWIW, when I fit this Orion-Tr, I will almost certainly be leaving the jumper in place and relying on voltage levels despite having a battery maintainer as I will be fitting an AMT12, which does pulse charging and stops before the Charger ON Threshold Voltage is reached.
On my own Motorhome I have an AMT 60A B2B and that is setup so it will only start when the voltage hits a Threshold (so like the Victron), but there is a Sense input (so like the Victron Remote "H") which I have on a three-way switch, so I can have it set OFF (so B2B will never come on); have it set ON to Perm +12V; or have it ON with Ignition, so only activates when Ignition on (this is the default position I use).

 

[seanwinder22]

Not sure why you connected the L to +12V? It would have no effect on anything.
I also don't know why you need to disable the Engine Shutdown detection. By doing that, the charger will stay on regardless of the voltage out the alternator and is totally reliant on the D+, which is not that desirable an action IMO.



OK, I just connected up a 30A Victron Orion-TR Smart charger like you have to a bench supply and took a photo and some screen shoots to explain ...

First the Setup:
I have the black jumper removed and the "H" Pin connected to a probe that will simulate the D+ Signal (all the D+ signal is a +12V line driven by the alternator, nothing special)
A Power Supply is acting as the Starter Battery + Alternator
I have the Victron IN and GND connected, nothing on the OUT.
Looks like this:
View attachment 684161
Red probe on the black jumper wire is the "D+" and I connect to the Power Supply ("Alternator") when I want to simulate the engine running.

Settings are like this:
View attachment 684162
So Engine shutdown detection is enabled, and the Voltage start up and shutdwn parameters are below. If you disable shutdown detection, that entire section below the slider toggle will disappear and the charger will turn on and off solely on the remote input signal.
If you want to do that, fine. I don't recommend that.

So to business ...
Power supply is at 12.2V - too low for the Charger to want to turn on no matter what the Remote Input connection ("D+") is
View attachment 684164

Ramping up the voltage above 14V, and the Probe is connected to the Power Supply so there is a +VE voltage going into the H Pin
View attachment 684165

If I pull the "D+" power now, the Charger turns off even though the IN voltage has not changed as the Remote Input is no longer present.
View attachment 684166

Hope this explains how the Victron Voltage parameters and the connections to the Green Remote Input connector work together.

The "Engine shutdown" is not really an *Engine* shutdown as it knows nothing about the state of the engine or the Alternator , it is purely working on Voltage levels. When that feature is enabled (which it should be), then if the voltage is lower than thresholds, the charger stays off regardless of what is happening on the Green remote plug.
AND
If the remote input is not active - either by a jumper between L and H; a LOW signal on L; OR a HIGH signal on H - the charger will stay off regardless of the Voltage levels.



FWIW, when I fit this Orion-Tr, I will almost certainly be leaving the jumper in place and relying on voltage levels despite having a battery maintainer as I will be fitting an AMT12, which does pulse charging and stops before the Charger ON Threshold Voltage is reached.
On my own Motorhome I have an AMT 60A B2B and that is setup so it will only start when the voltage hits a Threshold (so like the Victron), but there is a Sense input (so like the Victron Remote "H") which I have on a three-way switch, so I can have it set OFF (so B2B will never come on); have it set ON to Perm +12V; or have it ON with Ignition, so only activates when Ignition on (this is the default position I use).

Thanks so much for taking time to do this very much appreciated and now I understand Victron don’t do that very good. I always need to know the correct way that works or I won’t try lol

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