VB Front coil springs UPGRADE

[Techno]

I pride myself in DIY and helping others but I draw a line with this job as it requires garage equipment and it's worth paying for it for the effort alone.
These were fitted for me today by Conrad Anderson and to me they do exactly the same job as the Goldschmitt variety.
These are the heavy comfort springs and having driven the 100 miles plus back from Birmingham I can say I'm happy with Steve Conrads recommendation for these.
Before and after

 

[Techno]

So there you go Lunarman! Should make a load of difference to yours :Cool:

 

[lunarman]

Looks to have made quite a difference.

How did they reach the bolts on the top of the struts particularly on the drivers side?

 

[Techno]

I don't know John I had to sit in the waiting room but from info I've seen on the web they drop the fuse box out.
Also when they stripped my passenger side strut out they discovered it was FUBARED. The damper rod had no resistance at all and the top mount bearing was fragmented. This cleared up an issue I had in France last year where it suddenly started sounding very harsh on that side when steering, the noise disappeared a few hours later so I assumed Id picked up some gravel and it cleared itself. Anyway luckily they had a low mileage strut from a van that had been uprated to air suspension and they were very reasonable on price despite having me over a barrel
Very happy outcome :thumb:

 

[Techno]

Side by side comparisson

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[lunarman]

Are you sure they haven't just swapped the wheels for 15" ones

 

[Techno]

Van still slopes to the front but I wont need the top two steps of the quattros anymore :Cool:

 

[Xabia]

Looks to have made quite a difference.

How did they reach the bolts on the top of the struts particularly on the drivers side?

Had mine done with Goldschmitts a couple of years ago by Essanjay and was in the workshop part of the time. Andy is correct, they go in through the plate that covers the fuse box, drop that part which enables you, with some difficulty I was told, to get to the nut on top of the strut.

The mod does make a very big difference to ride quality and in my case, steering feel as well.

Mike

 

[Techno]

Yes I noticed the steering feel. It's like driving on tippy toes

 

[tony_g]

Van still slopes to the front but I wont need the top two steps of the quattros anymore :Cool:

I had the identical job done at Conrad Anderson just over a year ago. I would really recommend them. My van is a Laika 680, three and a half years old at the time, with the heavy 3.0 litre lump and it was showing it. I had the job done as part of an SVTech up plate exercise, since I wanted to take the front axle from 1850kg to 2000kg, as well as overall GVW increase. All worked out fine and the heavier 'comfort' option seems like a good compromise.
As you say, still has a nose down attitude but I think it is the vehicles natural disposition.
Btw, I have found that when on a bit of a slope, parking the other way round often obviates the need for ramps altogether or allows a lower step on the Milenco Quattro's. Depends whether you want the view out of the cab or an easy life.

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[lunarman]

After talking to Andy and seeing his report I bit the bullet and had VB comfort springs fitted to my van. It was always nose down (could not driv onto my milenco ramps) and the front suspension was non existent. Even the smallest pothole created a bone shattering jolt.
Being 3.0L and A class with the additional weight of the bed in the front I don't think the standard springs were man enough for the job.

The new springs have lifted the front by 2.5" at the wheel arch so there is now some travel in the dampers. When they took the drivers side strut off they found that the original spring was put on upside down so it did not seat properly in the bearing cup.

On the drive back it was a completely different van much smoother and I could hardly feel the ruts in the raised section of the M5 at Birmingham. Also the steering is better and the van does not dip at the front corner on roundabouts.

All in all very pleased.

John

 

[Techno]

Happy for you John
Like a different van !

 

[Techno]

I'm parked at brid CC and no MILLENCOS !!!
It's taken a year but this Rapido is now the van it should have been before it left their factory. I've modified so much stuff simply because I can and compromise is now so minimal even down to rotating the kitchen mixer tap today because wifey always catches it accidentally

 

[ehuplad]

How much roughly does it cost to change them.

 

[Techno]

I paid £595 for a coach built
A class are dearer due to only one cab door slowing the job down

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[Techno]

Early last year at Brid CC facing uphill but still second step on the quatros

Yesterday between storms, now looks like a 3500kg van

 

[DBK]

Please forgive my ignorance, but why have you jacked the front suspension up so high? The "before" shot looks like how my PVC was from new. The "after" shots suggest the vehicle designers got the wings wrong if this was how it was meant to ride.

 

[dave newell]

I have done similar conversions on Ducatos for several customers albeit using Lesjofors springs. To be honest the spring maker is relatively unimportant as long as they are a known and reputable company. We have mostly done this on small Hymers which always seem to be overly heavy at the front and ride too low causing the crashing ride as the bump stops take most of the loading. We have done this job on both the current X250 models and the previous generation X244s, bear in mind with X244 models they will be at least 7-8 years old now so may require new struts and top mounts as well and the top mounts are rather expensive. I'm surprised that CA fitted a second hand strut for you, I have always been of the belief that suspension (and brake) components should be changed in matched axle sets.

D.

 

[Techno]

They measured them Dave at 3mm difference, claimed to be well within acceptable tolerance. Also it was almost new

Devonbeekeeper
New heavy vans are offered with uprated springs these days at additional cost. The standard springs are not man enough to carry 2 ton continuously.
I found an old thread on another forum where the first owner only shortly after buying it in 2008 enquired about springs as it had dawned on them that it was nose down. So it didn't happen over time but from new.
Front axle is 2100kg rated and we travel at 1920 laden 3 litre comfortmatic contributes to this.
Rapido are famous for sending vans out that are overweight as soon as you get in the drivers seat by building 3 litres on 15" wheel chassis, they have no conscience.
Fortunately mine is 4250kg and unprateable :thumb:

 

[dave newell]

They measured them Dave at 3mm difference, claimed to be well within acceptable tolerance. Also it was almost new

Devonbeekeeper
New heavy vans are offered with uprated springs these days at additional cost. The standard springs are not man enough to carry 2 ton continuously.
I found an old thread on another forum where the first owner only shortly after buying it in 2008 enquired about springs as it had dawned on them that it was nose down. So it didn't happen over time but from new.
Front axle is 2100kg rated and we travel at 1920 laden 3 litre comfortmatic contributes to this.
Rapido are famous for sending vans out that are overweight as soon as you get in the drivers seat by building 3 litres on 15" wheel chassis, they have no conscience.
Fortunately mine is 4250kg and unprateable :thumb:

What did they measure? 3mm difference means nothing on a suspension strut, its movement damping does which is why they should be replaced in pairs.

D.

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[Techno]

Standing height on level ground I believe?
I'm not aware that Fiat Peugeot or Citroen sell suspension struts in matched pairs. Part numbers for replacements are just left or right. If they were different units by different third party manufacturers to different tolerances then it would be an issue.

 

[IanF]

I have done similar conversions on Ducatos for several customers albeit using Lesjofors springs. To be honest the spring maker is relatively unimportant as long as they are a known and reputable company. We have mostly done this on small Hymers which always seem to be overly heavy at the front and ride too low causing the crashing ride as the bump stops take most of the loading. We have done this job on both the current X250 models and the previous generation X244s, bear in mind with X244 models they will be at least 7-8 years old now so may require new struts and top mounts as well and the top mounts are rather expensive. I'm surprised that CA fitted a second hand strut for you, I have always been of the belief that suspension (and brake) components should be changed in matched axle sets.

D.

As a newbie shortly to buy my first MH and it's going to be 2nd hand(up to 3 yrs old) limited to 3500,likely to be a low mileage ducato, can I ask is this suspension upgrading/renewal something I am likely to need say before the MH reaches 40K miles-If so I'll have it as part of the negotiation-Please advise.
Thank you
Ian

 

[Techno]

It's unlikely Ian but will depend on the type of van. "A class" with overcab bed and large engine may already be nose down. If it looks OK it will probably not become an issue later.

 

[dave newell]

Standing height on level ground I believe?
I'm not aware that Fiat Peugeot or Citroen sell suspension struts in matched pairs. Part numbers for replacements are just left or right. If they were different units by different third party manufacturers to different tolerances then it would be an issue.

I use the term "matched pairs" to mean two brand new units from the same masnufacturer. If they measured the vehicle's ride height after fitting then that means absolutely nothing, there is a lot more than 3mm variation in the floor of their workshop and their yard. As I said the difference will be in the damping of movement provided by the strut, an older, pre used strut will possibly have vastly different damping chharacteristics than the remaining one of your originals. If you're happy with this pre used unit then fine, I have no truck with that. Far be it from me to criticise another professional workshop's methods but for me suspension components should ALWAYS be replaced with identical spec paired units.

D.

 

[Techno]

I would agree with matched springs but they are new anyway.
I'm pretty sure that councils throughout Britain are not paying for both struts to be replaced when one is smashed by a pot hole.
Dampers either work or they don't if the seal fails.
MOT test used to be to bounce on the wing very scientific but not possible on a commercial vehicle
Yes CA did a fine job :thumb:

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[scottie58]

We also replaced the front springs on our A class carthago (also 3 lt comfortmatic) with VB comfort ones last year - before it was incredibly nose down.

Our summer holiday had involved using the Belgian motorways which are terrible with potholes, ruts etc. it highlighted how incredibly harsh the front was on the original ducato springs, banging on the bump stops all the time.

The new VB springs raised the front end by 55mm which has given a much more compliant ride and given the van a more level stance.

The fitters (Rosmia) couldn't believe how low the front end was before they fitted the new ones.

 

[ehuplad]

What are peoples thoughts on Monroe front coil springs, they seem a good price around £88 for a pair. Not sure what is meant by 1800kgs payload it this max front axle load??

Notes:
Part Desc: Coil Spring
Vehicle Info: 1800 Kg Payload
Engine Code: 8140.43S

 

[andyman]

Europarts Motorfactors sell Kilen Extra Heavy Duty front springs Part #12205.
Quingting Autoparts also sell a range of Ducato Camper springs.

 

[scotjimland]

Having read this, am I the only one thinking that this is a scandal?
A van that can cost up to £100k and it isn't fit for purpose.. oh:

For that kind of cash I'd be looking for self leveling suspension.. as fitted to many A Class USRVs..

 

[Techno]

I'm well pleased that since my upgrade I've been out on four trips and not used millencos. I only keep them now for servicing jobs or if I need to lift a corner in the event of a flat tyre.
Yes it is atrocious that converters were unscrupulous about what is acceptable. I don't know if this still goes on but I do know that pre order customers are at least being offered uprated springs these days. Really it is easy to spot inadequate front springs in hind sight.

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