Twin axle or single-Newbie needs help.

[Monkeymatt1]

Evening all
We are new to MotorHomes but did have a twin axle caravan.We didn't fancy taking the caravan abroad so have sold it and are now looking for a Motorhome.
Budget should stretch to a 2008-2010 plate.
My main concern is the length of the twin axle/tag versions.I have seen other Q&A on the subject.
Most seem to be 8.5-8.9 mtr,so what are people's experience's travelling around France in one of these?
I am not too worried about the toll charges but i am concerned about getting to the stop over sites and not getting in ,especially as we have 2 young children.
How is it on a turning circle against a single axle?
I read something by one person that he thought the interior wears less in a tag because there is less body roll.Any thoughts on that?
Also, I have looked at a couple,one a Bessecar and the other Kontiki.Is there a better make to go for?
We really need one with a garage as we need the storage.We could go for a single axle with bunkbeds at the end over garage if there is such a thing but i haven't found one yet that is 5/6 berth.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we are really struggling with this.
Finally,in say 10 years' time when it's showing its age would a twin axle or single sell better?..i ask as 20 year old tag ones don't seem to age so well.
Many thanks in advance.
Matt

 

[Reallyretired]

Tag axles increase your gross vehicle weight ie you can put more junk in them. Train weight remains the same so the ability to tow anything is reduced. They are invariably front wheel drive so grip on slippery surfaces such as wet grass is poor. Some continental sites have signs saying they don't accept them though this is probably to deter travellers so rarely enforced.
Also you have to buy 6 tyres instead of 4.

 

[pappajohn]

First question.....do you have C1 on your licence.
If not you're on a hiding to nowhere.
You won't find a 3500kg van to legally carry 6 people.
Also, you won't find a tag axle at 3500kg.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Thank you for the reply,i hadn't seen or thought about grass contact so good advice.
Are single axles generally rear wheel drive?

 

[pappajohn]

Thank you for the reply,i hadn't seen or thought about grass contact so good advice.
Are single axles generally rear wheel drive?

The vast majority are built on Fiat Ducato base vehicles so FWD.

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[Reallyretired]

An 8.5-9m motorhome could be a problem on many sites, not only for pitch size but also maneuvering around the site.
Also by the fact you need 5/6 berth I assume you have children and relatively young. I don't think any 5 berth or larger tag axle will be driveable on a car licence so you will need C1 either by test or grandfather rights.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

First question.....do you have C1 on your licence.
If not you're on a hiding to nowhere.
You won't find a 3500kg van to legally carry 6 people.
Also, you won't find a tag axle at 3500kg.

I have a C1 but my wife does not so if i die out there it could be a problem otherwise no problem.

 

[Reallyretired]

Thank you for the reply,i hadn't seen or thought about grass contact so good advice.
Are single axles generally rear wheel drive?

Fiat's are FWD, the only RWD are older Mercedes or very old Ford's. Your question about turning circle. The tag axle has the same turning circle as the single axle, the extra wheels just scrub sideways so watch the overhang.

 

[Phill D]

Bare in mind that you will need C1 licence to drive a gtag axle, which may not be a problem for you. But when you come to sell it at 20 yrs old that could reduce your market as most younger people don't have a C1.
Pappa John beat me too it

 

[Monkeymatt1]

An 8.5-9m motorhome could be a problem on many sites, not only for pitch size but also maneuvering around the site.
Also by the fact you need 5/6 berth I assume you have children and relatively young. I don't think any 5 berth or larger tag axle will be driveable on a car licence so you will need C1 either by test or grandfather rights.

I have a C1.Yes young children and all the bits that go with that hence the storage.I did wonder about a top box then saw a thread about making it too high....confused!

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[Monkeymatt1]

Bare in mind that you will need C1 licence to drive a gtag axle, which may not be a problem for you. But when you come to sell it at 20 yrs old that could reduce your market as most younger people don't have a C1.
Pappa John beat me too it

Again great advice thank you.So do the say 7.5 mtr kontiki and the like driveable without C1?

 

[Figaro]

Never heard that the interior of a tag wears less due to less body roll ?
It's not body roll that causes wear, it's use, kids and dogs

 

[Peter and Julie]

Evening all
We are new to MotorHomes but did have a twin axle caravan.We didn't fancy taking the caravan abroad so have sold it and are now looking for a Motorhome.
Budget should stretch to a 2008-2010 plate.
My main concern is the length of the twin axle/tag versions.I have seen other Q&A on the subject.
Most seem to be 8.5-8.9 mtr,so what are people's experience's travelling around France in one of these?
I am not too worried about the toll charges but i am concerned about getting to the stop over sites and not getting in ,especially as we have 2 young children.
How is it on a turning circle against a single axle?
I read something by one person that he thought the interior wears less in a tag because there is less body roll.Any thoughts on that?
Also, I have looked at a couple,one a Bessecar and the other Kontiki.Is there a better make to go for?
We really need one with a garage as we need the storage.We could go for a single axle with bunkbeds at the end over garage if there is such a thing but i haven't found one yet that is 5/6 berth.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated as we are really struggling with this.
Finally,in say 10 years' time when it's showing its age would a twin axle or single sell better?..i ask as 20 year old tag ones don't seem to age so well.
Many thanks in advance.
Matt

We travel around Europe in a 10m American RV! You will be fine. It's not the UK with crap roads.

 

[Reallyretired]

There are 7.5m motorhomes rated at at 3500kg but put 4 people and their tackle in and you will invariably be illegally overweight.

 

[JockandRita]

Finally,in say 10 years' time when it's showing its age would a twin axle or single sell better?..i ask as 20 year old tag ones don't seem to age so well.

Ask anyone who knows Rita and I, and how we looked after our tandem axled MH, they would say differently.

Pre pandemic, we advertised our 20 x year old Hymer, ( https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-e690.208320/ ). The first person to view bought it.

The tyres tend to age before they wear.
The turning circle is no different to another vehicle the same length, however, the wider you make the turn, the less scrub on the rear tyres on concrete/tarmac, and the less damage to grass.
They are more stable when being overtaken on motorways/dual carriageways.
One disadvantage of selling a tandem axled MH, is that there are fewer and fewer folks with a C1 driving licence these days, and that situation will only get worse.
Ours was a 5 x berth with a half garage, but they are available with full garages.
We had no problems with ours in Western Europe.
Re French tolls, you need to be aware that a vehicle over 3500Kgs and 3 x axles, is often charged at Class 4, the most expensive toll, and double that of Class 2.

Happy hunting for the right MH.

Jock.

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[hja]

Just a point on your C1 - you say you have one but not your wife - what happens if you are ill/twist your ankle/break your arm? You would need to make sure your insurance provided full recovery. Any chance your wife might get a C1?

 

[JockandRita]

Just a point on your C1 - you say you have one but not your wife - what happens if you are ill/twist your ankle/break your arm? You would need to make sure your insurance provided full recovery. Any chance your wife might get a C1?

Not sure about the OP, but both our insurers and breakdown insurers, are fully aware that I am the only qualified driver, and that in the event, they would either need to supply a driver, or repatriate the vehicle.

It's just a case of getting the right cover, as Rita will never drive our MH, (her words, not mine).

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Just a point on your C1 - you say you have one but not your wife - what happens if you are ill/twist your ankle/break your arm? You would need to make sure your insurance provided full recovery. Any chance your wife might get a C1?

I think it may be wise,i'm 49 and she is 38.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Ask anyone who knows Rita and I, and how we looked after our tandem axled MH, they would say differently.

Pre pandemic, we advertised our 20 x year old Hymer, ( https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-e690.208320/ ). The first person to view bought it.

The tyres tend to age before they wear.
The turning circle is no different to another vehicle the same length, however, the wider you make the turn, the less scrub on the rear tyres on concrete/tarmac, and the less damage to grass.
They are more stable when being overtaken on motorways/dual carriageways.
One disadvantage of selling a tandem axled MH, is that there are fewer and fewer folks with a C1 driving licence these days, and that situation will only get worse.
Ours was a 5 x berth with a half garage, but they are available with full garages.
We had no problems with ours in Western Europe.
Re French tolls, you need to be aware that a vehicle over 3500Kgs and 3 x axles, is often charged at Class 4, the most expensive toll, and double that of Class 2.

Happy hunting for the right MH.

Jock.

Does that mean pretty much any motorhome is charged at class 4 as most seem to be over the 3500 or does it have to be over and 3 axle?

 

[jollyrodger]

Ask anyone who knows Rita and I, and how we looked after our tandem axled MH, they would say differently.

Pre pandemic, we advertised our 20 x year old Hymer, ( https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/threads/hymer-e690.208320/ ). The first person to view bought it.

The tyres tend to age before they wear.
The turning circle is no different to another vehicle the same length, however, the wider you make the turn, the less scrub on the rear tyres on concrete/tarmac, and the less damage to grass.
They are more stable when being overtaken on motorways/dual carriageways.
One disadvantage of selling a tandem axled MH, is that there are fewer and fewer folks with a C1 driving licence these days, and that situation will only get worse.
Ours was a 5 x berth with a half garage, but they are available with full garages.
We had no problems with ours in Western Europe.
Re French tolls, you need to be aware that a vehicle over 3500Kgs and 3 x axles, is often charged at Class 4, the most expensive toll, and double that of Class 2.

Happy hunting for the right MH.

Jock.

And it was a very nice one

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[JockandRita]

Does that mean pretty much any motorhome is charged at class 4 as most seem to be over the 3500 or does it have to be over and 3 axle?

Over 3500Kgs is Class 3, but if only a single axle at the rear and under 3 x metres, you can get away with Class 2. Over 3 x metres is also Class 3, but twin axles can take you up to Class 4, pending the toll operator on the day.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[G7UXG]

Does that mean pretty much any motorhome is charged at class 4 as most seem to be over the 3500 or does it have to be over and 3 axle?

Mine is 8.1 metre tag axle but it’s less than 3 metres tall. We only ever get charged class 2. Don’t know if I’m correct or not, but my understanding is that the sensors look firstly for the height and if it’s less than 3 metres tall (but more than 2 metres), it seems to come up with class 2. This has been the case with our 4 previous motorhomes, all of which were 4250kgs and single rear axle.

Never been charged anything more than class 2.

 

[G7UXG]

Should add that we always go to automatic booths, not manned ones.
Edit: (Should say attended ones to be politically correct )

 

[JockandRita]

Should add that we always go to automatic booths, not manned ones.

So do we, on the rare occasion we used the tolls, however, when the barrier won't raise, and you have to communicate via the intercom, (at Potiers Nord and A16 Boulogne ), that's when they tell you exactly what Class you are..............................from the camera images they are viewing. Pleading that you are a "privee camping car", doesn't wash with them.

I'm not the only one to get held up there.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[funflair]

Fiat's are FWD, the only RWD are older Mercedes or very old Ford's. Your question about turning circle. The tag axle has the same turning circle as the single axle, the extra wheels just scrub sideways so watch the overhang.

Or IVECO daily with a variety of chassis weights but all below 7500kg.

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[Monkeymatt1]

Another question....would 2008-2010 models be Euro4 and if so are there any current or maybe planned restrictions regarding emissions as to where you could go?.....France we would like to explore for the first few years.

 

[G7UXG]

So do we, on the rare occasion we used the tolls, however, when the barrier won't raise, and you have to communicate via the intercom, (at Potiers Nord and A16 Boulogne ), that's when they tell you exactly what Class you are..............................from the camera images they are viewing. Pleading that you are a "privee camping car", doesn't wash with them.

I'm not the only one to get held up there.

Cheers,

Jock.

A16 Boulogne never a problem for us, always worked so far. Not tried Poitiers Nord.
One day I may get caught out. If so, I’ll suck it up and not complain.

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Should add that we always go to automatic booths, not manned ones.
Edit: (Should say attended ones to be politically correct )

ha ha thank you

 

[Monkeymatt1]

Is it correct if you are over 3.5 ton then you have to use the cage eurostar?

 

[G7UXG]

Is it correct if you are over 3.5 ton then you have to use the cage eurostar?

No it isn’t. Same train as the cars, just in the single deck carriages at the front half of the train with the coaches. Cars upto 1.85 metres high (I think) go in the double deck carriages at the rear half of the train.

The other service (caged carriages) are freight.