Truma dumping all water (1 Viewer)

[Stoodlemming]

Every time we have a cold night the boiler dumps ALL our water. I thought it was only supposed to empty the boiler?

We only discovered this when we wild camped one chilly night and got up to find no water and had no way to fill it up. At the time we assumed the 12 volt must have been left on accidentally so the pump kept trying to refill the boiler. However, it has just done it again. We are off to Switzerland in less than a week, so can anyone suggest a way to keep water on board?

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[2x2camper]

Yours is like our Adria Twin. The water from the water tank gets syphoned out when the boiler dump value opens. You need to either find a method of keeping the value shut or as we did last night have a large bottle of water for the morning cuppa.

 

[Stoodlemming]

Yes, we have bottled water on board now, but it seems we are worse off than we were with our old van that had no boiler. At least then we knew we had to heat water in the kettle to wash. Now we can't wash at all. Not to mention the tank full of metered water we put in yesterday afternoon at home that is now roaming freely down the road.

I could turn against improved technology. It seems a very strange bit of design to make a van with heating that you can take out in mid-winter, but can't use properly.

 

[Barclaybasher]

Keep the heating on?

 

[Stoodlemming]

Can you run the heating while driving? If you are driving around for the day in -3, wouldn't the valve get cold enough to dump the water?

Or even if you leave the van all day, would it be necessary to leave the heating on? Or would just leaving the hot water on be enough?

I can understand why the boiler itself needs to empty, but why the whole tank as well? It does seem to make cold weather wild camping impossible, and that is something we have enjoyed before. Last Spring, in our old primitive van, we enjoyed the Picos de Europa in Northern Spain, spending lots of our days above the snow line and then passing the nights lower down. We thought the new van would make this even better, but I'm flummoxed to find it worse.

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[golly]

I just leave the water heater on as low as possible, even if driving around there should be enough residual heat to prevent it dumping

 

[Just smiffy]

Leave water heater on low level, if your driving around in cold weather you’ll need warm/hot water anyway, that’s what it’s designed for. That will stop it emptying.

It’s the modern way....

 

[jockaneezer]

Not sure if yours is pumping it out or just siphoning it empty, but why not switch the pump off at night and see if that helps ?

 

[Stoodlemming]

Once when it happened the whole 12V system was switched off, so I think it must be siphoning.

I don't think I'm designed to be modern. At the risk of sounding like a Python sketch, I grew up in a house with no heating, just a coke boiler for hot water, and I've never really come to terms with warm homes. I like the house to run at about 12C, and I wonder if the van heating is superfluous. But OH seems unhappy when he develops chilblains.

Back to the actual subject, I thought the gas was supposed to be off while driving. Do people leave it on and run the water heating while actually moving? ( I have a feeling may be asking some really silly questions, but you are all being lovely)

 

[mitzimad]

put a peg on the dump valve to stop it opening just remember its there for a reason

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[Just smiffy]

Once when it happened the whole 12V system was switched off, so I think it must be siphoning.

I don't think I'm designed to be modern. At the risk of sounding like a Python sketch, I grew up in a house with no heating, just a coke boiler for hot water, and I've never really come to terms with warm homes. I like the house to run at about 12C, and I wonder if the van heating is superfluous. But OH seems unhappy when he develops chilblains.

Back to the actual subject, I thought the gas was supposed to be off while driving. Do people leave it on and run the water heating while actually moving? ( I have a feeling may be asking some really silly questions, but you are all being lovely)

What van and year is it...?

 

[Stoodlemming]

It's a Globecar Campscout, 2014.

 

[Stoodlemming]

I've just read the handbook, again and it says that when draining the boiler you should put a bucket under it to check the full 10 litres has drained. So it sounds as though it thinks it should stop after that, rather than go on until the whole tank is empty. There is also a warning that the safety valve does not protect the pump and water fittings from frost damage, so again it sounds as though the maker expects water to remain in the system.

 

[Riverbankannie]

Once when it happened the whole 12V system was switched off, so I think it must be siphoning.

I don't think I'm designed to be modern. At the risk of sounding like a Python sketch, I grew up in a house with no heating, just a coke boiler for hot water, and I've never really come to terms with warm homes. I like the house to run at about 12C, and I wonder if the van heating is superfluous. But OH seems unhappy when he develops chilblains.

Back to the actual subject, I thought the gas was supposed to be off while driving. Do people leave it on and run the water heating while actually moving? ( I have a feeling may be asking some really silly questions, but you are all being lovely)

There are no stupid questions, just things that you don’t yet know the answer to !
We love giving everyone the benefit of our advice, helpful or not

We leave the gas on as we have an underslung tank and fittings rather like those used in lpg cars. Obviously the gas has to be on for these cars to operate so I see no difference. However, we find there is no need to leave the heating on whilst driving (the normal cab hot air sufficient for a panel van) and any hot water in the boiler tank will stay warm for a long time.

@Minxy Girl can you advise on this campscout ?

 

[Just smiffy]

It's a Globecar Campscout, 2014.

I think @Minxy Girl has one of these..?

A lot of people run their hot water whilst traveling but some English vans shutdown the electrics at the back while driving...

There are a few with this van on here and they will hopefully be along soon...

But in the mean time when parked and at night keep the hot water on its lowest setting if you think it’s cold enough to dump...

Hope it’s sorted for you..

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[Duck Truck]

If you are in the van and using the heating regularly because it's cold out
Then peg the dump valve to stop it operating
REMEMBER to remove the peg if you are turning the heating off for a long period
Once the water is hot in the boiler
it should happily withstand a journey of a few hours with the gas turned off
So long as you put the heating back on when you arrive.

In the alps the temp frequently drop down to -15 or -20 degrees
we just leave the heating on all the time and on low when we go out this circulates hot air and helps stop any pipe work freezing up.

 

[nicholsong]

There are no stupid questions, just things that you don’t yet know the answer to !
We love giving everyone the benefit of our advice, helpful or not

We leave the gas on as we have an underslung tank and fittings rather like those used in lpg cars. Obviously the gas has to be on for these cars to operate so I see no difference. However, we find there is no need to leave the heating on whilst driving (the normal cab hot air sufficient for a panel van) and any hot water in the boiler tank will stay warm for a long time.

@Minxy Girl can you advise on this campscout ?

Annie, remember in MHs it leaves the tank as gas, but in LPG cars it leaves the tank as liquid and is converted to gas at the engine.

Still some risks but different.

Geoff

 

[Riverbankannie]

Annie, remember in MHs it leaves the tank as gas, but in LPG cars it leaves the tank as liquid and is converted to gas at the engine.

Still some risks but different.

Geoff

Thanks for that, I always thought that was the reason given for not worrying too much about leaving gas on. I cannot get to the tank itself but we do have some isolation valves inside. However these also require getting down on the floor in the pitch point between cooker and washroom so I don’t do that either ! (Unless on the tunnel)
Try not to drive with gas appliances working but often forget the manual change on the fridge.

 

[JockandRita]

@Stoodlemming. In winter, if you don't want heat through the night, just turn the thermostat right down to about 10 -12 degrees. This will maintain the hot water temperature using a minimal amount of gas, but also the heating will kick in if temperatures unexpectedly plummet (a very safe and efficient system). The advantages of doing this are 3 x fold, ie, 1. The dump valve doesn't operate, thereby dumping then syphoning all your water. 2. Should someone need hot water during the night, it is instant. 3. In the morning, the heating is also instant when you turn the thermostat up again.

In the Spring or Autumn, just switch over to hot water setting only, and in the summer, no need at all, unless somewhere really cold.

Cheers,

Jock.

 

[Barclaybasher]

My dump valve operated after I set off on this trip - it wasn't cold but it wasn't pegged - maybe it's just old and worn (vibration?).

It's now double pegged, one to hold the valve up and one on top of that around the indent.

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[Minxy]

I think @Minxy Girl has one of these..?

Yes we have a 2018 one.

Not sure if yours is pumping it out or just siphoning it empty, but why not switch the pump off at night and see if that helps ?

Unfortunately Globecars don't usually have an isolation switch for the pump, if the control panel is switched on the pump is too ... I'm gonna fit a switch in line so I can isolate the pump when it's not used, that way over winter when we empty the system and leave the tap levers in the 'open' position there'll be no danger of the pump working in the background if I have to turn the panel on. Others have already fitted an isolation switch and it won't be difficult to do so once our place is on the market I'll be having a play on the camper again and getting my jobs done

.

 

[Duck Truck]

Minxy please pop round and do some jobs on ours

 

[Stoodlemming]

It definitely isn't the pump. We just topped up the tank, refilled the boiler and tried draining the boiler again. It continues to drain well past the 10 litres the manual suggests should empty the boiler.

My husband is an engineer in a chemical works, and is having major abdabs at the idea of bypassing a safety feature by wedging the valve in place!

For this trip we will have to try to keep enough heat in the boiler to keep water in the tank, and in the longer term he is thinking about putting a valve of some sort into the pipe that feeds the boiler so we can drain it and still keep the tank full. It just seems crazy that the boiler would drain it all.

 

[Misterg]

It continues to drain well past the 10 litres the manual suggests should empty the boiler.

Not sure what boiler you have, but many/most(?) have a clear vent hose running to the top water outlet on the boiler. If you have this hose, check that it isn't blocked or kinked (it should come out under the van somewhere as an open end). It is supposed to act as a vacuum breaker / air vent so that the boiler can empty. If it's blocked, it might make the boiler drain siphon from the water tank (or it could just be badly designed plumbing!). You could even check that you can blow through this hose when the boiler is empty.

 

[Duck Truck]

ABDABS

I fully understand his concern the valve is designed to dump the water if the temperature drops to a low temperature around the valve itself. You can solve this by keeping the boiler hot by just heating the water without having the heating on
but if the temperature is really low this risks the rest of the pipework because the water in the system may freeze
having the heating on and set low means a continuous flow of warm air circulates thus reducing the risk to the rest of the pipework. Pegging the dump valve is commonly used without a problem so long as you remember to remove the peg when the heating is off.

We once ran out of gas overnight and the heating went off
the result was the pipework sited furthest away from the boiler froze. I had to defrost it with a hair dryer.
I now have a temperature sensor located in this area it cost £3.50p from Lidl and gives an audible warning if the temperature drops to near freezing near that area. Works brilliantly and worth every penny

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[JockandRita]

You can solve this by keeping the boiler hot by just heating the water without having the heating on
but if the temperature is really low this risks the rest of the pipework because the water in the system may freeze
having the heating on and set low means a continuous flow of warm air circulates thus reducing the risk to the rest of the pipework.

As I quoted earlier.............

@Stoodlemming. In winter, if you don't want heat through the night, just turn the thermostat right down to about 10 -12 degrees. This will maintain the hot water temperature using a minimal amount of gas, but also the heating will kick in if temperatures unexpectedly plummet (a very safe and efficient system). The advantages of doing this are 3 x fold, ie, 1. The dump valve doesn't operate, thereby dumping then syphoning all your water. 2. Should someone need hot water during the night, it is instant. 3. In the morning, the heating is also instant when you turn the thermostat up again.

In the Spring or Autumn, just switch over to hot water setting only, and in the summer, no need at all, unless somewhere really cold.

Cheers,

Jock.

Not only to the plumbing system, but there is a danger to the well-being of those asleep within, if temperatures drop too low. Technically speaking, room temperatures of 18 degrees are recommended, for normal healthy adults who are properly dressed. We can be as snug as a bug in bed with enough bedding (clothing if you like), to keep us warm, but waking up to internal ambient temperatures of around 11 degrees, is about as low as I would dare to go................and I am Asthmatic.

Modern leisure vehicle heating systems are very safe these days, and are designed to be left on for long periods, ie, 24hrs a day, and for several days if necessary. The days of carbon monoxide (CO) being produced internally, from a heating system, are long gone, and the risks involved by leaving the gas and heating on all night, are extremely minimal indeed. They are designed for that, and meet TUV approval.

Heating the MH using an open gas oven, or gas rings, presents a totally different situation altogether, and is one that has a huge potential to be the cause of a loss of life.

@Stoodlemming. If it's genuinely the opening of the dump valve on the boiler that is causing your fresh water tank to syphon empty, then it sounds like there is a problem with the plumbing, or that the fresh water tank is higher than the boiler. If leaving either the heating or the hot water on, prevents it happening in winter conditions, then that's the way to go. The isolation switch for the pump sounds ideal, in the absence of it not being a factory fit option.

Cheers,

Jock.