Towing tests face the axe (ref B+E licence)?

[mikebeaches]

This is an interesting article just published in the Daily Telegraph, relating to the possible ending of the B+E driving test for folk who qualified after 1997.

The article is linked to towing caravans, but I assume if the test is scrapped, it might also apply to younger motorhomers who learned to drive after 1997 and are currently restricted to 3,500kg max vehicle weight without an additional test?

I've copied and pasted pertinent exerts because the Telegraph operates a paywall!

Caravan towing tests face the axe to tackle lorry driver shortage

Ministers consider ending driving tests for towing heavy trailers to free up examiners' capacity for HGVs

www.telegraph.co.uk

Caravan towing tests face the axe to tackle lorry driver shortage​

Ministers consider ending driving tests for towing heavy trailers to free up examiners' capacity for HGVs

Tests for car drivers who want to tow a heavy caravan could be scrapped to free up examiners for truckers as ministers race to combat the UK’s HGV crisis.

The government is considering relaxing requirements for the so-called B+E test, which millions of motorists have to take if they want to drive a car with a trailer where the two have a combined weight of at least 3.5 tonnes.

If the plan goes ahead, it is hoped testing staff can instead focus on clearing a backlog of would-be hauliers seeking a HGV licence.

The measures are just one of a raft of packages proposed to try to boost the number of HGV drivers in the UK, unveiled in a letter to haulage industry leaders from the secretaries of state for Transport; Work and Pensions; and the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs.

Any driver who was granted their normal licence after 1997 must pass a B+E test if they breach the 3.5 tonne limit. Most cars and trailers come in below this weight, but the licence is likely to apply for drivers of heavy SUVs who want to tow a horsebox or caravan.
Drivers who passed before 1997 can haul a trailer if the combined weight is below 8.25 tonnes without taking the B+E test. Id the post-1997 rules are relaxed to the same extent, almost no drivers would have to take the exam.

It came after supermarkets and haulier demanded action from the Government to tackle an estimated 100,000 shortfall of qualified truckers in the UK, amid fears of possible food shortages as goods cannot be moved.

The Government said it is seeking to create capacity for the Driver and Vehicle Standards Agency to test more lorry drivers. Extra funding has already been provided to increase HGV tests from 1,150 a week before the pandemic, to 1,500 now.

The letter added that “increased sovereignty over our decision-making that Brexit has provided” opened up further options.
Ministers are also considering a change to HGV exam requirements for off-road manoeuvres, and may issue provisional licences that cover both smaller rigid and larger articulated lorries.

 

[gus-lopez]

Here both lessons & testing for B+E is done by those who should be doing it . Driving schools.

 

[Googlebot]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

 

[TDub49]

Whoopee. Should make the roads a lot safer. Sovereignty indeed.

 

[Itsmcb]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

It's cringeworthy the amount of drivers that can't reverse anything even a small car into a parking space.
I don't know how they dream up all these licence classifications, I can drive a big 4x4 towing a triple axle trailer or a 7.5 ton truck with a 24ft box but I can't ride a 125cc scooter with a passenger on the back. How does that make sense?

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[busbuddy]

Most people dont even know they cant tow so it will be news to them
The ones that do know go in for the test 'thinking' it will allow them to drive a motorhome over 3.5t but once again reality will be news for them
My partners son did his test, he can (legally in theory) tow my 4t motorhome with his big fat 4x4 but he cant drive my motorhome as its 4t

 

[gus-lopez]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

No problem with it if they are just stopping the tests & no one is allowed to tow until they take a test that they can't.

 

[pagey]

From what I see if it was not for motor movers they would need an extra day's holiday to be able to site the van

 

[Gizmouk]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

Pure comedy gold watching them trying to reverse onto a pitch though

 

[tonyidle]

From what I see if it was not for motor movers they would need an extra day's holiday to be able to site the van

Reversing is a skill that needs continual practice. The average Motorhomer or caravanner will never make enough trips to become skilled. The best that can be hoped for is that they aren't too embarrassed to try. I don't know any non-professional that can confidently reverse under all circumstances.

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[pagey]

Exactly my point they should have to take a test

 

[TheAleMan]

It's cringeworthy the amount of drivers that can't reverse anything even a small car into a parking space.
I don't know how they dream up all these licence classifications, I can drive a big 4x4 towing a triple axle trailer or a 7.5 ton truck with a 24ft box but I can't ride a 125cc scooter with a passenger on the back. How does that make sense?

It doesn’t make sense, and one that I have often pondered over. I’ve had a 5T motorhome and now a 7.5T motorhome but, I had to take and pass a test to ride a 125 scooter..crazy.

 

[Itsmcb]

I don't know any non-professional that can confidently reverse under all circumstances.

I'm pretty good

 

[jongood]

They could sort a lot of the lorry driver shortage out tomorrow if they tackled the BS that is the driver CPC. There are so many older guys with licenses and more to the point experience and knowledge who are refusing to do it. Ive done it twice now and its the same crap it was the first time and I didn't benefit from it then.

 

[pagey]

I drove artics for 20+years I would never go back to it now with all the hoop jumping involved digi tach etc etc I still hold a cpc ,my daughter is a transport manager with a large waste recycler and has a lgv licence and a cpc and can't wait to get out of the industry ps I would like to have a drive of a 750 hp volvo though

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[Googlebot]

It's cringeworthy the amount of drivers that can't reverse anything even a small car into a parking space.
I don't know how they dream up all these licence classifications, I can drive a big 4x4 towing a triple axle trailer or a 7.5 ton truck with a 24ft box but I can't ride a 125cc scooter with a passenger on the back. How does that make sense?

Because bikes make up a tiny portion of the traffic yet the majority of the fatalities so the Government quite rightly strive for higher training and competence.

 

[tonyidle]

Exactly my point they should have to take a test

Any test for the average driver would still not give them the confidence needed to reverse a modern caravan on a crowded site. There are sites that simply don't have room in front of the pitch to allow a reverse-in. And what if nose to wall is a good position? Motor movers fill an essential need especially for the less able. I know two caravanners who would be unable to access or leave their drives without one. Reversing a trailer of any sort requires enthusiasm, a willingness to keep trying, and a thick skin. Even with those attributes there will be times when a motor mover (or a bunch of willing helpers) is needed. How many on here with a toad can perform any complex reversing manoeuvre?

 

[Googlebot]

Any test for the average driver would still not give them the confidence needed to reverse a modern caravan on a crowded site. There are sites that simply don't have room in front of the pitch to allow a reverse-in. And what if nose to wall is a good position? Motor movers fill an essential need especially for the less able. I know two caravanners who would be unable to access or leave their drives without one. Reversing a trailer of any sort requires enthusiasm, a willingness to keep trying, and a thick skin. Even with those attributes there will be times when a motor mover (or a bunch of willing helpers) is needed. How many on here with a toad can perform any complex reversing manoeuvre?

I second this, I was always happy to reverse without the mover. It just meant I could put it within an inch of where I wanted it and level as well. Try levelling blocks with a car attached. Dual Mass Flywheels hated it as well and they cost as much as the mover to replace.

Then there were the pitches where you wanted it facing in.

 

[Jimbob53]

They could sort a lot of the lorry driver shortage out tomorrow if they tackled the BS that is the driver CPC. There are so many older guys with licenses and more to the point experience and knowledge who are refusing to do it. Ive done it twice now and its the same crap it was the first time and I didn't benefit from it then.

That's why I retired. Driving 40odd years. Cycling stopped me staying all b/s. Loved to go back need medical cpc trying not cheap.

 

[pagey]

Any test for the average driver would still not give them the confidence needed to reverse a modern caravan on a crowded site. There are sites that simply don't have room in front of the pitch to allow a reverse-in. And what if nose to wall is a good position? Motor movers fill an essential need especially for the less able. I know two caravanners who would be unable to access or leave their drives without one. Reversing a trailer of any sort requires enthusiasm, a willingness to keep trying, and a thick skin. Even with those attributes there will be times when a motor mover (or a bunch of willing helpers) is needed. How many on here with a toad can perform any complex reversing manoeuvre?

I should think none but that is down to the engineering of them they are not fit for purpose just look at the pivot points there is no way that when you can see the car in the mirrors you will be able to correct it ask any artic driver what trailer is easiest to reverse a 20 ft or a 40 ft but I take your point about parking them at home

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[pagey]

It doesn’t make sense, and one that I have often pondered over. I’ve had a 5T motorhome and now a 7.5T motorhome but, I had to take and pass a test to ride a 125 scooter..crazy.

Even when I still had my hgv to drive 44 ton trucks I could only ride a 50 cc moped the whole licencing thing needs a revamp

 

[knickam]

They could sort a lot of the lorry driver shortage out tomorrow if they tackled the BS that is the driver CPC. There are so many older guys with licenses and more to the point experience and knowledge who are refusing to do it. Ive done it twice now and its the same crap it was the first time and I didn't benefit from it then.

Do the PSV CPC modules count towards an HGV CPC if you have both licences?

 

[Derek’soldvan]

I live in Devon & it’s laughable the amount of even small car drivers (don’t get me started on the big beamers etc & 4x4’s) who either can’t or refuse to reverse when I meet them at a passing place on one of our numerous “a little narrow” roads

 

[GWAYGWAY]

There seems a bit of difference between what I thought the rules are and the Daily Telegraph.
B is a vehicle up to 3500kgs. +a small trailer up to 750kgs
B+E is a vehicle up to 3500kgs plus a trailer over 750kgs up to the max train weight of the towing vehicle
C1 is a vehicle over 3500kgs up to 7500kgs
C1E is a vehicle up to 7500kgs plus a trailer over 750kgs up to the max train weight of the pulling vehicle plated weight.
I knew of no maximum weight of 3500 including trailer????????

 

[Tigger-Tim]

There seems a bit of difference between what I thought the rules are and the Daily Telegraph.
B is a vehicle up to 3500kgs. +a small trailer up to 750kgs
...

B also allows:

• A trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)

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[Jim]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

Reversing a trailer or caravan is easy. It only gets hard when people are watching

 

[Jamesh]

B also allows:

• A trailer over 750kg as long as the combined weight of the trailer and towing vehicle is no more than 3,500kg Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM)

Braked trailer btw.

Cheers James

 

[Tigger-Tim]

I completely disagree with this move. It’s already cringeworthy the amount of caravanners who can’t reverse.

Caravanning life can be very different to motorhoming. When we had a caravan I might only take it out 2-3 times a year. We'd put it on a pitch, and it stays there until we leave.

Any skill needs practice. And only 3 times a year will leave anyone rusty.

 

[Jamesh]

I used to caravan with a 1300kg van and it was tricky finding a suitable (B license) tow car, whilst all along the Mrs XC90 sat in the drive. I think a 1500kg cap and not limit the tow cars weight would be more sensible.

Cheers James

 

[pete4x4]

So what made all of us pre 1997 with grandfather rights able to tow and reverse trailers with no tuition.
and dont say we cant as that includes most of you.
I know we have more vehicles on the road so its a bit more tricky if you cant reverse a trailer but we did allright with a bit of practice.

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