Toroidal LPG tank and solenoid cut off! (1 Viewer)

[ianp]

So its now looking like we may be fitting one of the 4 hole toroidal under slung 55ltr LPG tanks. The main reason we have decided to go this way is that the cylindrical tanks are of such a diameter as they hang significantly lower than the chassis members and so have no protection. Has anyone any experience of such tanks that they'd like to recount, good or bad? In addition we are also looking to use a solenoid valve as a means of isolation on the outlet to the tank as is fitted to most road fuel tanks rather than the manual valves usually fitted to under slung tanks. It's ten quid more plus the buggery factor of wiring it in but feels like it would be much more convenient ! Any thoughts, for or against please?

 

[scotjimland]

could be wrong .. but I though the toroidal tanks were liquid take off for LPG vehicles, . not designed for gas vapour take off for domestic use. The connecting port will have dip tube..

Have you checked this ?

as for fitting a solenoid valve.. no reason not to

 

[TheBig1]

I thought that toroidal lpg tanks are designed for liquid take off for engine use not vapour take off for gas use

Piles and piles of toroidal ones at the scrap yards many rusted out in just a couple of years

I would fit a cylindrical tank and instal a protection plate below to take any rubs or impacts

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[Gromett]

I was under the same impression as both @scotjimland and @TheBig1 was.
toroidal tanks for liquid take off not vapour. Although I suppose you could modify with some work/expense.

 

[jezport]

Ditto

 

[ianp]

No you can buy vapour take off toroidal tanks from both Gasit and Tinley......Tinley being much cheaper! The take off does rise upwards so as to be open in the vapour void above the liquid, just the same as in the cylindrical tanks!
see here.....

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[Lenny HB]

Tinley being much cheaper!

Not much in it Tinley prices are ex VAT, Gas-it inc. VAT.

 

[hilldweller]

Just to be nosey - why toroid, takes up more mounting area ?

 

[ianp]

Just to be nosey - why toroid, takes up more mounting area ?

It does (marginally!) but it is area that we have with the addition that the valving is mounted on the high side. The diameter of an equivalent cylinder in the length that we have available would be an additional 3+ inches lower when mounted. 230mm deep as opposed to 305mm plus brackets etc. The valving to such is mounted on the lower side and the whole hangs below the chassis by a couple of inches.

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[hilldweller]

230mm deep as opposed to 305mm

Ah, it's a long thin cylinder, folded. Now I get it.

 

[busbuddy]

do you actually need/use that much gas ? i fitted a 25ltr cylinder tank under my old van and never even came close to running out

 

[RFS]

The toroidal tank looks interesting. I am planning on fitting refillable to my Hymer. If I went this route, I could use the gas locker maybe for additional batteries or keep a spare Spanish bottle...

Tinley price including VAT is £190 so a fair bit cheaper than the Gasit tank at £336 unless I'm missing something?

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[ianp]

The toroidal tank looks interesting. I am planning on fitting refillable to my Hymer. If I went this route, I could use the gas locker maybe for additional batteries or keep a spare Spanish bottle...

Tinley price including VAT is £190 so a fair bit cheaper than the Gasit tank at £336 unless I'm missing something?

I think you'd be missing the valves and 'box' lid! Yes i know the page states that the valves etc are included but I think it may be a mistake though I was tempted to order one and hold them to their advert!

 

[Lenny HB]

do you actually need/use that much gas ? i fitted a 25ltr cylinder tank under my old van and never even came close to running out

That's only a few days of gas in winter IMO nowhere near enough.

 

[eddie]

I thought that they were used to replace the spare wheel on LPG road conversions in cars?

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[RFS]

Well seemingly this is a vapour take off tank so works the same as the conventional shaped tanks.

 

[RFS]

I think you'd be missing the valves and 'box' lid! Yes i know the page states that the valves etc are included but I think it may be a mistake though I was tempted to order one and hold them to their advert!

@ianp - I sent an email to Tinley to confirm that all the valves are included. They've confirmed they are.

Basically, you can get a tank, sender with in-cab remote gauge, bsp to 8mm adaptor and 12v solenoid shut off valve for £275.08 inc vat and next day del.

 

[Lenny HB]

Tinley price including VAT is £190 so a fair bit cheaper than the Gasit tank at £336 unless I'm missing something?

You must be missing something on their site £256 + VAT

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[RFS]

You must be missing something on their site £256 + VAT

I must confess Lenny, I'm confused now (not too difficult haha). Ian's link takes you to,a cheaper option which includes valves and I asked Tinley to confirm. However, there is the option which clearly shows the box and valves and it is more wonga...!

 

[RFS]

Seems like I opened a can of worms with my email....!

The 'FFV4_600/55 - 4 hole toroidal tank' as I quoted in my email to Tinley and was advertised on their website at £153.69 exc VAT, it's now disappeared and shows no results if I search for it.

There is now the more expensive option 'FKIT-FFV4' at £256.66 exc VAT....

 

[RFS]

Yep.... I must definitely have alerted them to the error as I can't check my basket out now at the price it shows...

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[tonyidle]

I thought that they were used to replace the spare wheel on LPG road conversions in cars?

That was the original reason for the design but they can be useful in other places. There is no difference between a liquid take off tank and a vapour take-off tank. The difference is only in the off-take valve. But you knew that .

 

[eddie]

That was the original reason for the design but they can be useful in other places. There is no difference between a liquid take off tank and a vapour take-off tank. The difference is only in the off-take valve. But you knew that .

I was just joining in

 

[andy63]

There is no difference between a liquid take off tank and a vapour take-off tank.

But could be hugely important in terms of their application...
Do they not have to be marked or distinguished in some way to indicate what type of take off they have...ive never noticed and not sure...
Andy

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[ianp]

That was the original reason for the design but they can be useful in other places. There is no difference between a liquid take off tank and a vapour take-off tank. The difference is only in the off-take valve. But you knew that .

I think you'll find that that is not quite correct. On the 4 hole versions and not the multi valve versions the difference is in the positioning of the 'take off' pipe into which the outlet valve fits. The one terminates in the liquid phase at the 'bottom' of the tank and is fully open ended. The other the vapour one terminates in the vapour space which is above the level of the liquid when at rest. This take off is often fitted with a cap to discourage liquid from entering. The cap is the main reason that its not possible to simply invert the tanks. You can do so but it has potential risks!

 

[ianp]

View attachment 270677 Yep.... I must definitely have alerted them to the error as I can't check my basket out now at the price it shows...

oh bugger!

 

[tonyidle]

I think you'll find that that is not quite correct. On the 4 hole versions and not the multi valve versions the difference is in the positioning of the 'take off' pipe into which the outlet valve fits. The one terminates in the liquid phase at the 'bottom' of the tank and is fully open ended. The other the vapour one terminates in the vapour space which is above the level of the liquid when at rest. This take off is often fitted with a cap to discourage liquid from entering. The cap is the main reason that its not possible to simply invert the tanks. You can do so but it has potential risks!

I said that - the difference is in the off-take not the tank itself. It is perfectly possible to convert one to t'other simply by changing the off-take unit.

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[tonyidle]

But could be hugely important in terms of their application...
Do they not have to be marked or distinguished in some way to indicate what type of take off they have...ive never noticed and not sure...
Andy

I think the vapour tanks are sprayed red.

 

[ianp]

I said that - the difference is in the off-take not the tank itself. It is perfectly possible to convert one to t'other simply by changing the off-take unit.

I think you are meaning the single hole tanks fitted with the multi valves which don't have 'take off' pipes fitted. The 4 hole tanks have a welded in 'take off' pipe which can't be changed. The valve on such a tank is just an isolation valve which is connected to the outlet end of the 'take off' pipe.
A further 'complication' to the above on the cylinder tanks is that the liquid tanks have the outlet axis at 55 degrees to the vertical whereas the vapour tanks have the outlet at 105 degrees so if you where to 'invert' them then the take off pipe internally would not be at the maximum height and nor would the level float be at the right angle to achieve the 80% fill level. It could be more or it could be less!
The tanks from Stako are stamped as to liquid or vapour. If you contact Worthingtons (as I have), who are the US parent company they will advise that the tanks are not interchangeable!
I'm sure many people have chopped and changed the tanks for many reasons but I think that I'll pass on joining them.

 

[tonyidle]

I think you are meaning the single hole tanks fitted with the multi valves which don't have 'take off' pipes fitted. The 4 hole tanks have a welded in 'take off' pipe which can't be changed. The valve on such a tank is just an isolation valve which is connected to the outlet end of the 'take off' pipe.
A further 'complication' to the above on the cylinder tanks is that the liquid tanks have the outlet axis at 55 degrees to the vertical whereas the vapour tanks have the outlet at 105 degrees so if you where to 'invert' them then the take off pipe internally would not be at the maximum height and nor would the level float be at the right angle to achieve the 80% fill level. It could be more or it could be less!
The tanks from Stako are stamped as to liquid or vapour. If you contact Worthingtons (as I have), who are the US parent company they will advise that the tanks are not interchangeable!
I'm sure many people have chopped and changed the tanks for many reasons but I think that I'll pass on joining them.

Not sure what you mean by inverting the tank or chopping and changing things. What I've written up to now was to clarify the difference between vapour and liquid off-take. When a tank is manufactured in has no pipes or valves installed and at that time isn't designed specifically for either vapour or liquid off-take. It has a flange welded to it that determines whether it can use a four hole or single hole valve assembly. The PRV, offtake, cut-off and filler unit(s) can be single- or four-hole for either vapour or liquid use and the angle at which the flange must be set is determined by the the valve unit that will be used. Those parts are what determines whether the tank is used for liquid or vapour supply. For liquid the outlet turns down towards the bottom of the tank. For vapour it turns upwards and is close to the top of the tank. The tank remains in it's correct, as designed, orientation. It isn't rotated, chopped, or changed. Tanks have to stay at the angle determined by the valve unit fitted so that the 80% cut-off (and contents gauge) work correctly. At no time have I suggested modifying any part of the tank or valve unit. If you ask a business that retails tanks to persons outside the trade you will get the simplistic and safe answers. The answers will also (quite rightly) reflect how that business supplies tanks. Once tanks are built, assembled into a kit, tested, and made available for sale then altering anything is obviously not an option. The fact remains however that a tank is a tank and once returned to its natural bare state it can be used, with the correct valve unit, for vapour or liquid off-take.

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