Toll roads

[Diabalo]

In the news today, has this got legs or even true?

Rishi Sunak considers plan to charge motorists for every mile they drive on Britain's roads to fill £40billion tax hole left by the switch to electric cars

 

[dunnah01]

Rishi Sunak considers plan to charge motorists even more for every mile they drive on Britain's roads to fill £40billion tax hole left by the switch to electric cars

 

[Coolcats]

With petrol and Diesel revenues to decline why wouldn't any government do this? 5G and tracking would make it easy to do I guess its just what model would be the best one to apply.

 

[Diabalo]

Labour dropped the idea back in 2007 after the suggested up to £1.50 per mile charge caused uproar.

 

[Pausim]

Rishi Sunak considers plan to charge motorists even more for every mile they drive on Britain's roads to fill £40billion tax hole left by the switch to electric cars

I don’t think we know enough yet to shout “even more”. The road charging is to replace the revenue lost from petrol tax and free road fund licenses when we go electric. Hardly surprising they will need to raise the money somewhere else and on balance charging by use seems fairer than banging the cost on everyone.

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[sonny]

Put up the price of lectric

 

[LesW]

This was always going to happen, to make cars tax free was a mistake from day one, badly thought out and badly implemented.

Electric cars still wear roads out, so money is not even being saved on maintenance of said roads by people using electric vehicles.

 

[68c]

Somewhere deep in hidden British legislation is the rule that the rich must pay less tax than the poor, probably a Norman idea. Buy a new low emission petrol car and you pay less road fund. Start and run your own company and offset some of your personal expenses against it. Once electric vehicles are the majority the Revenue will flex their claws.

 

[Speve]

If they start this they are going to have to improve the quality of the road surfaces everywhere they are getting worse than Portugals roads over here

 

[WESTY66]

I hope they charge foreigners too then?

Might even make the hull ferry more viable for me again
Then again the EU will do the same so we’ll be no better off abroad

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[Coolcats]

Interesting as the following highlights as we know that the VED does not pay for roads but is an easy way fr a government to raise tax

The original VED was dreamt up in 1888, and was replaced by the Road Fund Licence in 1920, funds raised by it being targeted to increased road building and maintenance. From 1937 these same funds were re-directed into the general taxation pot, something that has continued to this day

 

[westhamman]

I had not given the loss of fuel duty much thought, but it would be massive and needs recupping. Will taking the duty off of petrol and putting it on mileage be fairer or just the same. The result will be paying more, although driving less is always an option with good public transport that we have here in London.

 

[WESTY66]

I had not given the loss of fuel duty much thought, but it would be massive and needs recupping. Will taking the duty off of petrol and putting it on mileage be fairer or just the same. The result will be paying more, although driving less is always an option with good public transport that we have here in London.

Nice idea but it won’t affect the foreign trucks coming into the country with full tanks from front axle to drive axle both sides, they don’t put any fuel duty into the coffers and hammer the roads all the same!

 

[glenn2926]

Nice idea but it won’t affect the foreign trucks coming into the country with full tanks from front axle to drive axle both sides, they don’t put any fuel duty into the coffers and hammer the roads all the same!

We could always just stop buying stuff then the trucks would have no reason to come here. Can’t blame the truckers for buying fuel where it’s cheaper. Look how many on here relish going to Luxembourg for the cheap fuel. Public transport is not really an option other than in cities. It’s the government driving the rush to electric vehicles surely they have realised the loss from fuel duty.
Until electric vehicles become viable for the people that don’t live in cities and therefore need a vehicle with reasonable tank range that can be refilled in a couple of minuets then we will continue to need ICE vehicles.

 

[joe and sue]

I don’t think we know enough yet to shout “even more”. The road charging is to replace the revenue lost from petrol tax and free road fund licenses when we go electric. Hardly surprising they will need to raise the money somewhere else and on balance charging by use seems fairer than banging the cost on everyone.

If all those tax exiles and tax evaders who are British subjects and businesses paid their taxes like the rest of us, and were pursued relentlessly, like us ordinary mortals, then there would be enough revenue to cover everything.
If an ordinary working person owes the taxman £1000, they have a problem
If these exiles and businesses owe the taxman millions we all have a problem. !!!!!!!

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[nicholsong]

Nice idea but it won’t affect the foreign trucks coming into the country with full tanks from front axle to drive axle both sides, they don’t put any fuel duty into the coffers and hammer the roads all the same!

Why will charging per mile not affect foreign trucks?

At the moment several countries have laws requiring vehicles over 3t to have electronic boxes in the windscreen and tolls are calculated from information from overhead gantries on kms/miles driven.

A similar system could be introduced for all vehicles, both domestic and foreign.

Geoff

 

[Richard n Ann]

Our VW up costs £20 a year to tax so I think we'll hang on to that as long as possible .

Electric cars have so many disadvantages at the minute, they really are a backward step. Maybe in 50 years they'll be worth considering.

 

[WESTY66]

Why will charging per mile not affect foreign trucks?

At the moment several countries have laws requiring vehicles over 3t to have electronic boxes in the windscreen and tolls are calculated from information from overhead gantries on kms/miles driven.

A similar system could be introduced for all vehicles, both domestic and foreign.

Geoff

Because the idea I replied to suggested the cost be put on fuel duty at the pump.

 

[Coolcats]

Nice idea but it won’t affect the foreign trucks coming into the country with full tanks from front axle to drive axle both sides, they don’t put any fuel duty into the coffers and hammer the roads all the same!

Most imports come on containers and what about our trucks going to Europe and beyond? Should they pay for each and every county they drive through

Our VW up costs £20 a year to tax so I think we'll hang on to that as long as possible .

Electric cars have so many disadvantages at the minute, they really are a backward step. Maybe in 50 years they'll be worth considering.

EV’s do have a lot going for them and will only get better some disadvantages such as charging point availability but overall it’s the way to go until Hydrogen arrives in big numbers

 

[SpeedyDux]

All cars equipped with e-Call (now mandatory) effectively have a built-in tracker. It would be relatively easy to use them as a basis for a shift to road use taxation without having to install new telematics hardware in every car, although that might become compulsory for older cars at some point. Many companies fit them in works vans and company cars to monitor their staff.

Proposals for taxing cars based on usage have been put forward many times over the years and probably originate from HMRC or the Treasury. Every time, the announcement has met with overwhelming public opposition so it became a vote-loser and politically unacceptable. Times have changed thanks to the shift from ICE and especially diesel car sales to EV sales and the impending 2030 cut-off deadline for new ICE sales.

The problem with taxing electricity is huge when the government plan is to ban gas or oil fired central heating boilers and force all domestic users to switch to elecricity for heating. The tariff cost of electricity is already 3 or 4 times that of gas per equivalent Kw hour.

Taxing road usage instead of taxing energy is becoming more likely IMO.

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[joe and sue]

All cars equipped with e-Call (now mandatory) effectively have a built-in tracker. It would be relatively easy to use them as a basis for a shift to road use taxation without having to install new telematics hardware in every car, although that might become compulsory for older cars at some point. Many companies fit them in works vans and company cars to monitor their staff.

Proposals for taxing cars based on usage have been put forward many times over the years and probably originate from HMRC or the Treasury. Every time, the announcement has met with overwhelming public opposition so it became a vote-loser and politically unacceptable. Times have changed thanks to the shift from ICE and especially diesel car sales to EV sales and the impending 2030 cut-off deadline for new ICE sales.

The problem with taxing electricity is huge when the government plan is to ban gas or oil fired central heating boilers and force all domestic users to switch to elecricity for heating. The tariff cost of electricity is already 3 or 4 times that of gas per equivalent Kw hour.

Taxing road usage instead of taxing energy is becoming more likely IMO.

By looking at the various parts of your post can i assume the following:
1. you are quite happy with your every movement being monitored and tracked, I would consider this to be an invasion of privacy in a free and democratic country
2. you are ok with being charged for your fuel (electricity for charging), road useage / tolls, and a vehicle / road tax which will certainly be re-introduced once most cars are electric and that revenue stream dries up.

 

[SpeedyDux]

By looking at the various parts of your post can i assume the following:
1. you are quite happy with your every movement being monitored and tracked, I would consider this to be an invasion of privacy in a free and democratic country
2. you are ok with being charged for your fuel (electricity for charging), road useage / tolls, and a vehicle / road tax which will certainly be re-introduced once most cars are electric and that revenue stream dries up.

No, I am not happy with the privacy issue. If you buy a new car you have no choice because you can't opt out. The T&Cs allow the built-in e-Call system to send usage data to the manufacturer all the time, whether you like it or not. What is the alternative in the short term, except to buy an older used car that doesn't have the e-Call safety feature, but in the end you won't have a choice when telematics as a basis for usage tax become compulsory in every car (and by extension, MHs).

I am pointing out the high probability that road usage based tax will be needed to replace fuel duty and VAT on fuel. Whether VED will be extended to apply to EVs is another issue. Raising new taxes on electricity as a replacement is a non-starter in my view.

 

[WESTY66]

Most imports come on containers and what about our trucks going to Europe and beyond? Should they pay for each and every county they drive through

I don’t know where you have been looking, there’s more foreign trucks on our roads than ever these days, we’ve had six trucks in here last week from Germany with Lithuanian hauliers!! Theres not many U.K. trucks go abroad, have a look next time you’re abroad see how many U.K. trucks you see.

 

[Richard n Ann]

I want my Defender back the only electrics were starter motor, lights and a fuel solenoid

 

[63720]

I could see this coming with the rising sales of low or duty free cars. If the current VED rates are changed, or even reduced, then I'm in favour of it. If you use more electricity you pay more, same for gas and most things in society so why not road use.

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[BILL 875]

Reading the OP at £1:50 per mile a return trip to Dover would cost £810.00 a great idea

 

[BILL 875]

Another way to look at the £1:50 rate i have done 30,000 miles over 4 years so that would be a charge of £45,000:00 at the worst, best to leave the M/H in France i do not think they would stand for the crap we put up with.

 

[Lenny HB]

Nice idea but it won’t affect the foreign trucks coming into the country with full tanks from front axle to drive axle both sides, they don’t put any fuel duty into the coffers and hammer the roads all the same!

Foreign HGV's pay tolls to use our roads. It's not much compared to French tolls.

https://www.dkv-euroservice.com/gb/media/content/documents_1/benefits/toll_9/great_britain/levy_uk_tarife/levy_uk_tarife_en.pdf

 

[nicholsong]

Because the idea I replied to suggested the cost be put on fuel duty at the pump.

You replied to

"Will taking the duty off of petrol and putting it on mileage be fairer or just the same. The result will be paying more, although driving less is always an option with good public transport that we have here in London."

'Taking duty off fuel' and 'putting it on mileage'

I think you are confused.

Geoff

 

[WESTY66]

Foreign HGV's pay tolls to use our roads. It's not much compared to French tolls.

https://www.dkv-euroservice.com/gb/media/content/documents_1/benefits/toll_9/great_britain/levy_uk_tarife/levy_uk_tarife_en.pdf

That’s a bargain compared to going thru France

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