The Leisure Battery Industry

PhilandMena

PhilandMena

Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Posts
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Location
Corby, Northants
Funster No
1,455
MH
Coach Built
Exp
Since 2007
Hi, Great to see a battery distributor on here and I wish you well. However, I am very criticle of the leisure battery industry as a whole and would ask the following. 1. Why in general is the battery warranty given so poor with terms like fair wear and tear not covered! 2. Why is the test of a leisure battery under a warranty claim done as a starter battery which is no good for testing a leisure battery and will pass a depleted leisure battery 3. Why do so many distributors sell leisure natterirs that are in fact stsrter batteries and 4. Why is there no national or international standard for a leisure battery, resulting in dealers/distributors providing their own interpretation as to what a leisure battery is.
I shall come back to you a little later about the NCC Verified battery scheme and the damage it has caused to the leisure battery industry and the mislabeling of leisure batteries.
 
Battery Megastore Warranty T & C.

In my judgement, about as much use as a chocolate teapot and typical of so many battery distributors.

Warranty Procedure If you have fully charged your battery and think it is faulty there are 2 options on how to process your warranty claim: Option 1 -Having the battery tested yourself Take the battery to a local garage for a battery test. Make sure the battery is fully charged and over 12volts when the test is performed. Ensure that the voltage is shown on the test report. Send the test report via fax, email or post with a copy of your invoice or order number. Make sure your address and phone number are included. When we have received the test report and the invoice we will call you to arrange a new product to be sent to you and collection of the faulty item. Battery Megastore UK Ltd do not refund the cost of any test reports received. Option 2 - Returning the battery for Test Call us with your invoice / order number, we will then take a deposit of £20 and collect your battery for testing. If the battery is faulty we will refund your deposit and send you a new battery along with a voucher for 5% off your next order. If your battery is not faulty we will send the battery back to you with the print out from the tester. The battery will be sent back fully charged and ready to use. Under the warranty no refunds will be issued. Contact Details Email: sales@batterymegastore.co.uk Fax: 01684 850139 Post: Battery Megastore, Unit 29, Alexandra Way, Tewkesbury, GL20 8NB If you believe yourself to have more than one faulty battery please contact our technical team for assistance before proceeding with the above on 01684 298800.

A Warranty Replacement is invalid as a result of: a) Normal wear and tear b) Failure to follow the instruction manual c) Negligent and improper storage, usage or installation d) Unauthorised modifications to the battery e) The use of so-called means of improvement Alphaline Leisure Batteries The warranty of Alphaline Leisure Batteries is reduced if used for the following applications: Live Aboard usage: 1 Year Commercial and Industrial usage: 1 Year Electric fence usage: 6 Months
 
I've taken batteries back to Halfords on numerous occasions (more than three) and had warranties honoured. Once even without a receipt (On Halfords badged battery)

But people can completely knacker a battery in a weekend, so if I sold batteries my terms would look a lot like that. Sometimes batteries fail out the door and any test will pick that up. Inherently reliable if looked after, 99% of batteries fail because we abuse them.
 
PhilandMena said:
Hi, Great to see a battery distributor on here and I wish you well. However, I am very criticle of the leisure battery industry as a whole and would ask the following. 1. Why in general is the battery warranty given so poor with terms like fair wear and tear not covered!
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Because people are unsympathetic about batteries, don't understand batteries, have poor memories about batteries and some lie about what they have done to batteries. The battery warranty on anything is at best cumulous.

The number of people that when asked have they checked the level of their leisure batteries regularly say "Oh yes", then ask "Actually, how do you do check the level?" or say "Yes" and then don't know where their leisure battery is actually installed, or say that they have never ever let there leisure battery go flat, only to be reminded that they had phoned from Spain in a panic as their leisure battery had gone flat three times in one trip the previous Winter!

PhilandMena said:
2. Why is the test of a leisure battery under a warranty claim done as a starter battery which is no good for testing a leisure battery and will pass a depleted leisure battery
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There is no real test for a leisure battery, that is actually a leisure battery. Realistically, measure the voltage and take a guess. Got a bit longer? charge it up and take some measurements, place a small known load on it and wait! after a few hours do some more tests and get your calculator out and work out "whats what"

PhilandMena said:
3. Why do so many distributors sell leisure natterirs that are in fact stsrter batteries
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obviously so they can test them! :giggler:

PhilandMena said:
and 4. Why is there no national or international standard for a leisure battery, resulting in dealers/distributors providing their own interpretation as to what a leisure battery is.
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No one cares, too many application variants and too many charge regimes and time variations. There is no universally accepted standard for engine batteries so no one is going to get too excited about the 1200 new motorhome registrations last year in the UK

PhilandMena said:
I shall come back to you a little later about the NCC Verified battery scheme and the damage it has caused to the leisure battery industry and the mislabeling of leisure batteries.
Click to expand...
There is your answer to your last question! I doubt "damage" has been done, people will still go to Halfords and buy their £84.95 caravan battery and abuse it in their caravan or camper.

I am not sticking up for anyone or blaming anyone, but I started my working life for the Longlife Tyre & Battery Company at 17 and as the Junior I was the one, soldering the lead plates, sticking battery cases together with bitchumen and filling with acid syphoned from carbouys nestled in straw, people tend to treat batteries as out of sight and out of mind, until the battery is flat and then its panic panic panic!

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When I got to the bit where you said 'I am not sticking up for anyone' I did chuckle :rofl: . I guess 'Traders' must stick together and support each other ? A kind of a brotherhood me thinks !
 
PhilandMena said:
4. Why is there no national or international standard for a leisure battery, resulting in dealers/distributors providing their own interpretation as to what a leisure battery is.
Click to expand...

eddievanbitz said:
Got a bit longer? charge it up and take some measurements, place a small known load on it and wait! after a few hours do some more tests and get your calculator out and work out "whats what"
Click to expand...

A perfectly practical test but why is it not undertaken? A lack of ability, or desire?

The batteries are specified with a C20 (or whatever) capacity so why not test against that specification?

Ian
 
PhilandMena said:
When I got to the bit where you said 'I am not sticking up for anyone' I did chuckle :rofl: . I guess 'Traders' must stick together and support each other ? A kind of a brotherhood me thinks !
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That was my polite way of wondering what you problem with the Leisure battery industry is.

My guess? As a dispirited, garden shed inventor, you were laughed out of the meeting with the Evil LBDC's (Leisure Battery Distribution Controller) office with your home made revolutionary caravan power supply that runs on Meths and Old Spice! :LOL:
 
bigtwin said:
A perfectly practical test but why is it not undertaken? A lack of ability, or desire?
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Us lot mainly! The public! Tell someone that has called in with no appointment that the battery test will take 24 hours on a bench and people start to scream and threaten

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eddievanbitz said:
Us lot mainly! The public! Tell someone that has called in with no appointment that the battery test will take 24 hours on a bench and people start to scream and threaten
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You might be right there but offering it as an option would at least be a start. The vast majority of Customers tend to assume that ‘the experts’ know what they are talking about and are likely to listen to what they are saying.

Ian
 
eddievanbitz said:
That was my polite way of wondering what you problem with the Leisure battery industry is.

My guess? As a dispirited, garden shed inventor, you were laughed out of the meeting with the Evil LBDC's (Leisure Battery Distribution Controller) office with your home made revolutionary caravan power supply that runs on Meths and Old Spice! :LOL:
Click to expand...
I guess I must have touched a raw nerve for you to respond like that !
 
bigtwin said:
You might be right there but offering it as an option would at least be a start. The vast majority of Customers tend to assume that ‘the experts’ know what they are talking about and are likely to listen to what they are saying. Ian
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The trouble is that the "vast" majority of customers don't buy from experts, just the cheapest person flogging what they want.

If someone wants to sit down with us, discussing their power requirements and what they need and how we can help achieve it, great, if someone simply wants to buy a leisure battery based on price we would suggest Halfords everytime.

Its part of the battery Cabal all traders are party to!:giggler:
 
The problem seems to be that most people don't understand their battery needs and often under spec them and then buy the cheapest 'Leisure Batteries' they can find. Proceed then to download them far too far, far too often and then wonder why they have died far too soon and in such a short time.

The battery suppliers/manufactures know this, so are very suspicious when anybody claims that the batteries they sold them are faulty.

Most people only have experience of their car battery that lasts year and and it never goes flat. That's because the manufacturer has worked out the spec needed and a car battery has to do very work - comparatively.

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Just a little further information, one of today's installation jobs for our workshops
1573745048991.png

So a brace of Victron lithium batteries with external BMS with a Victron inverter/charger, and a Sterling B2B towards being finished being tested and set up.

1573745525011.png

Screen shot from the workshop laptop

So PhilandMena This is all tested and replicable, the batteries are not car batteries, the batteries conform to various standards and we do not need to use a lead acid "drop tester" to test it.

For the observant you will see that the batteries are happily sucking up 91A which is very nice! The B2B is chucking in about 47A on tick over

Screen shot from the users App

1573746586175.png
 
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PhilandMena who is the supplier on here that your op refers to please? I've just spent a fortune having new ones.

Also, re the solar panel lights indicator by the batteries.. Are the green or the red lights supposed to be on? Sorry if that a daft question but I often ask them . :(. GJH @jocjkaneezer.
 
I think possibly half the problem is that an average MH owner may not know exactly what he / she wants the leisure battery to do. EG, is it going to run the TV, recharge 29 I-pads, a fully electric fridge and a couple of batteries from your E-bikes ? If so you really want some GOOD batteries and you'll have to keep an eye on the battery voltages in case whatever is charging them is not up to the job. Like a solar charger with a couple of cloudy days in the winter.

For us it was easy, all lights are LED, we have no TV and if not on hook up the fridge runs on gas. Only thing which takes any real amount of power is the electric bed, but if after three days the leisure battery voltage is anywhere down around 12.5v, I'd put the engine on for the 1 minute it takes to raise the bed.

So from new we had a Chausson single 110Ah leisure battery, I stuck a voltmeter across the terminals and could see the battery voltage from anywhere in the MH. We found that we could last a good 3 days off hook up. After five years I changed this battery to two of similar spec, still with the voltmeter so now I recon I can get 5 days off hook up.

Dead simple, no drama, but without the voltmeter I'd have no idea what I was doing to the batteries.

If I had a more power hungry vehicle then I'd have up'd the spec of the batteries.
 
What solar controller are you using Joy ?

These are the guys I get my batteries off. They come with a lifetime guarantee, but the bloke who fixes them has never survived the lead poisoning/acid burns more than eighteen months !


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What a fascinating thread, but can anyone tell me what the physical difference is between a "starter" and a "leisure" battery is.
 
Joy, some of my earlier posts on this thread have been removed, including the very first post made by Battery Megastore. This is the supplier you are enquiring about I believe.
 
jockaneezer said:
What solar controller are you using Joy ?

These are the guys I get my batteries off. They come with a lifetime guarantee, but the bloke who fixes them has never survived the lead poisoning/acid burns more than eighteen months !


Click to expand...


Bit dumb with technology :(. But does 'Electrobloc' sound right?
 
ctc said:
What a fascinating thread, but can anyone tell me what the physical difference is between a "starter" and a "leisure" battery is.
Click to expand...
In essence, there is a international standard for a starter battery which lays down defined parameters that the battery must meet. There is no such standard for a Leisure battery and this has lead to a lot of inferior batteries being labelled and sold as a Leisure battery. It could be argued that quite a few of these batteries are being miss sold in as much as they are being described as meeting certain performance characteristics which have been subsequently established as being false.
A bigger picture of just how bad this has been is in the attached link.

Campaign For Clearer Leisure Battery Standard Changes - NCC verified battery scheme is a fraud

Campaign For Clearer Leisure Battery Standards. The NCC Verified battery scheme is a fraud - So called 'verified' batteries that can't possibly perform that well. Test reports that don't exist, 'verified' Batteries that break their own rules, Trading Standards breaches, etc. We request the...
www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk

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