Tale of Woe

Saxon66

Saxon66

Joined
May 10, 2016
Posts
116
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103
Location
Norwich
Funster No
43,013
MH
CI Mizar gtl living
Hi

We bought an 10 year old CI motorhome 16 months ago from a local dealer. They assured us that there was a habitation check done at the time but no paperwork was offered proving this (I do have it in writing that they will conduct the necessary checks). I know that we should have demanded proof but we really wanted this van and that probably clouded our judgement at the time.

Fast forward to today and we have just had the van independently checked as part of a habitation service. It appears that we have substantial damp (to the point of the wood being rotted through) along both sides of the entire van and it will need extensive structural repairs to make it right. We have been advised that we should avoid driving it.

I intend to take it back to the dealership next week to see what their thoughts are on selling a vehicle that was obviously already well on its way to being worthless. Has anyone else suffered a similar experience and was it resolved? We've already talked to Citizens Advice and they have quoted the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that gives us 6 years of 'comeback' but I fear that this is going to turn into a nightmare.

It's not just the money but the emotional attachment that we've built up with the past years experiences with our kids. I'm truly gutted!

Cheers.
 
Gutted for you.
Did you happen to pay, at least, part of the purchase by credit card? If so, you may also have comeback under Section 75 of the Act covering this.
 
16 months is a fairly lengthy period of time and a lot can happen and deteriorate in that period. It could well be there was no real issue way back but since then something(s) have failed to allow the water ingress and subsequent rot. In the right conditions timber can deteriorate over only a few months. The challenge is going to be proving the fault was present when sold, and did not arise afterwards. Did whoever made the current check give indication of causation and how long it could have been there?

Habitation checks are normally on an annual basis, so 16 months you are late and that alone could give your dealer some leeway
 
How very disappointing for you.
Who was the dealer?
I sincerely hope that you will have some legal redress. It will all be a pain in the backside to deal with,but probably worth it in the end.
Good luck.
Please keep us informed of your progress,it will help others in a similar situation.
 
Totally gutted for you,hope you can resolve things with your dealer,but i expect they'll want nowt to do with the problems now they have your money.
good luck.
KEV

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Kannon Fodda said:
16 months is a fairly lengthy period of time and a lot can happen and deteriorate in that period. It could well be there was no real issue way back but since then something(s) have failed to allow the water ingress and subsequent rot. In the right conditions timber can deteriorate over only a few months. The challenge is going to be proving the fault was present when sold, and did not arise afterwards. Did whoever made the current check give indication of causation and how long it could have been there?

Habitation checks are normally on an annual basis, so 16 months you are late and that alone could give your dealer some leeway
Click to expand...

Hi, I agree about the timescale entirely and accept partial responsibility for it not being detected earlier. The independent guy today seems to think that it is something that has been years in the making but proving that will be very difficult.

I'm hoping that the dealership (I'm unwilling to name them yet until there is some kind of resolution, good or bad) will be honourable and we can work out a way that isn't too painful for either of us.

Interestingly, I mentioned on another thread that I was looking at getting the hab check done and got a lot of answers that were along the lines 'why would you do that if you already own it!'. Ho hum.
 
Most would not hab check a vehicle they are buying, if from a reputable dealer, and they give you the paperwork. But recommendations are then for regular, annual checks, and for those who have a warranty the check must be done to maintain that warranty. Some how, whether you call it a hab check or something else, periodic inspections of anything are desired to spot things that are starting to fail before they become a major failure - the stitch in time principle. I'd go so far as to suggest a MH, subject to so much vibration when you are on the road, needs the checks, as well as mechanical servicing. That vibration could gradually shake loose anything.

It's got to be galling to have a serious problem that could have been brewing for a long while. I suppose one of the big things to identify is if it is repairable, and how much, relative to the value of the MH.
 
Kannon Fodda said:
Most would not hab check a vehicle they are buying, if from a reputable dealer, and they give you the paperwork. But recommendations are then for regular, annual checks, and for those who have a warranty the check must be done to maintain that warranty. Some how, whether you call it a hab check or something else, periodic inspections of anything are desired to spot things that are starting to fail before they become a major failure - the stitch in time principle. I'd go so far as to suggest a MH, subject to so much vibration when you are on the road, needs the checks, as well as mechanical servicing. That vibration could gradually shake loose anything.

It's got to be galling to have a serious problem that could have been brewing for a long while. I suppose one of the big things to identify is if it is repairable, and how much, relative to the value of the MH.
Click to expand...
Yep, with you on all of that. It was the reason to have the check done now, ready to get anything repaired over winter.

We'll just have to see what the costs look like but we're fully expecting around the £10K mark from what we've learnt today. We'll then just have to weigh up the merits against the potential loss. Unfortunately we couldn't sell it on privately now to an unsuspecting private buyer knowing what we know.
 
No doubt that's a bummer. I guess you have to with up looking at the mileage on the base vehicle the cost of the repair, add on the original cost and divide it by the number of years you think the vehicle will last.

In good repair it could probably do you at least another 10 years so your £10k cost is maybe £1000 per annum for your future holidays.

Tough - sorry to hear about your misfortune.
 
Best of luck, maybe approach the dealer with just the facts to start with see what they say

As you probably will never be able to prove it was in this condition when you collected it, they might be willing to help, although I do share others fears they will not

Have you added anything to the roof, or even just been on it to clean it, that will not help your cause

I hope it all works out for you, what is the approx current value, or what did you pay, that will make a big difference to justifying the value of repairs

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From my perspective this is all about damage limitation.

First off I’d get a couple of quotes from reputable repaiers

Then I’d employ the services of a solicitor to make a claim under the consumer rights act prior to commencing legal action.

Hopefully you can recover half the cost of repair

Best of luck
 
DavidG58 said:
Best of luck, maybe approach the dealer with just the facts to start with see what they say

As you probably will never be able to prove it was in this condition when you collected it, they might be willing to help, although I do share others fears they will not

Have you added anything to the roof, or even just been in it to clean it, that will not help your cause

I hope it all works out for you, what is the approx current value, or what did you pay, that will make a big difference to justifying the value of repairs
Click to expand...
Hi

No, nothing added that would cause structural damage and the only time anyone went on the roof it was the dealership staff themselves to check a skylight so hopefully no blame to us.

The van is currently worth about £28K looking at market value and, as has been mentioned by others, it now becomes a case of working out residual value against how long we expect to keep it. I'm feeling like we will have push as hard as we can legally but if it all fails we'll have to get the repairs done as without them the van is valueless. It'll also save having to tell a 6 and 8 year old that we're selling it!
 
pappajohn said:
Trade in with the same dealer.
When they mention the severe damp and rot just say there can't be as last year you told us at purchase it was sound and dry.
See what they say to that.
Click to expand...
Funnily enough the dealer called us earlier this year as he had a van that he thought would be 'perfect for us' and he wondered if we wanted to part ex ours in. We declined as we had no reason at that time to think anything was wrong with ours. Based on this I'm reasonably sure he wasn't aware of the damp problem when he sold it (as he obviously didn't check it) and hope that he'll be reasonable when it comes to repairs.

Of course, he could have checked it and it was bone dry when he sold it to us but based on the severity of the rot, I doubt it very much.
 
"We'll just have to see what the costs look like but we're fully expecting around the £10K mark from what we've learnt today. We'll then just have to weigh up the merits against the potential loss. Unfortunately we couldn't sell it on privately now to an unsuspecting private buyer knowing what we know."

We had a major repair done on our van for something around the £4k mark... so get some quotes and hopefully it won't be as bad as you are expecting. I remember how sick I felt at the time but once it was fixed all was well. Good luck.

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keades said:
"We'll just have to see what the costs look like but we're fully expecting around the £10K mark from what we've learnt today. We'll then just have to weigh up the merits against the potential loss. Unfortunately we couldn't sell it on privately now to an unsuspecting private buyer knowing what we know."

We had a major repair done on our van for something around the £4k mark... so get some quotes and hopefully it won't be as bad as you are expecting. I remember how sick I felt at the time but once it was fixed all was well. Good luck.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that, it's made me feel marginally better :)

Cheers
 
Don't think you will get much joy with the dealer after 16 months obviously including a winter, but can't on the other hand see a repair costing anywhere near 10 grand, have you any skills to do it yourself or a handy mate.
By all means try the dealer but don't think it's worth a lot of hassle, the best you could do is do his part ex idea, and let him test it , see what he says then.
 
Here's my experience...I was so lucky to find an absolute specialist... maybe there is a CI one around..good luck....

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

Hymer - A confession - Its got Damp

Good job you took it to the 2nd guy the first one obviously doesn't understand Hymer construction - there aren't battens that can swell, Hymer use the PUAL system for construction. My thoughts also Lenny. :( @h1ghway1, the reason I put you on to Peter Curry, is with the retirement of Peter...
www.motorhomefun.co.uk www.motorhomefun.co.uk
 
All an auction will do is get the vehicle off your hands; you won't get "market value" for it even if it's in good condition and if the damp is spotted, which it almost certainly will be, you're wasting your time.

You need to start with some firm quotes of how much the repair is going to cost before you start with any negotiations with the selling dealer. At that point you have a couple of options open to you, rather than just turning up and asking what are they going to do about this? It's a difficult one - some dealers are excellent and will assist all they can, but I'm afraid they are not in the majority and I fear most will just say "tough" or along those lines. You have left it late to start complaining, whatever the legal position is. And if it does go to Court the judgement may well go against you and you're into even more loss.

I, too, am really gutted about the situation, but I'm afraid that's life. Try not to dwell on the negatives and try to consider all the options - I'm sure a positive approach will, in the end, be the best way forward.
 
It’s a waste of time taking it to a MH dealer for repair, as it needs a specialist body work shop. They are ones who know how they are put together and how to get them apart. Sorry to here about your problems but I would not expect too much from the dealer. The problem could well have started after you bought it and just gone un-noticed for the last 16 months. The trouble is, it’s just one of those things that happen to some MHs. You are not the first to have major problems and I don’t think you will be the last.

I know when we traded in a 14 month old Pilote to Southdown Motorhomes they crawled all over it for a good 1.5 hours. They checked everywhere for water ingress and made a note of anything that needed attention. Talking to the salesman while we waited he said that they do tear up some deals when the trade In turns up and has a few damp issues
 
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Hello, we had exactly the same problem with a CI motorhome and the repair costs were £6k. It is all covered by the Consumer Rights Act, effectively the goods were sold to you not fit for purpose and you have a legal right to a refund. We took advice from Which legal advice and you can join their scheme to get that advice right now. What you need to do is get a full written assessment of the damage, cost to repair and let the seller know what the problem is. If they will not refund your money then you have the right to decide how it will be fixed and where to take it, the seller does not have the right to tell you how it will be fixed. Any civil court will look at this as to what was a reasonable action to take and it is best to work with the seller rather than be obnoxious. In our case we had service records going back ten years with the same service company and yet they had not found any damp, mainly because they serviced cars not motor homes. We used this to highlight our case and the selling company did not want to know about repairs, then asked us to return it for them to fix which we refused and then finally agreed for it to be taken to two independent approved service against that can do this type of work. We were prepared to pay the bill and on being fixed, the bill was sent to the garage where we bought the motorhome and it was paid. Get legal advice, know your rights and be patient, the law is on your side, importantly you tell the seller how this is going to work and get the motorhome repaired quickly as delay simply makes it worse cost wise. If you can simply get your money back the all the better but an accurate assessment is vital as a starting point. Regards
 
Cridon said:
Hello, we had exactly the same problem with a CI motorhome and the repair costs were £6k. It is all covered by the Consumer Rights Act, effectively the goods were sold to you not fit for purpose and you have a legal right to a refund. We took advice from Which legal advice and you can join their scheme to get that advice right now. What you need to do is get a full written assessment of the damage, cost to repair and let the seller know what the problem is. If they will not refund your money then you have the right to decide how it will be fixed and where to take it, the seller does not have the right to tell you how it will be fixed. Any civil court will look at this as to what was a reasonable action to take and it is best to work with the seller rather than be obnoxious. In our case we had service records going back ten years with the same service company and yet they had not found any damp, mainly because they serviced cars not motor homes. We used this to highlight our case and the selling company did not want to know about repairs, then asked us to return it for them to fix which we refused and then finally agreed for it to be taken to two independent approved service against that can do this type of work. We were prepared to pay the bill and on being fixed, the bill was sent to the garage where we bought the motorhome and it was paid. Get legal advice, know your rights and be patient, the law is on your side, importantly you tell the seller how this is going to work and get the motorhome repaired quickly as delay simply makes it worse cost wise. If you can simply get your money back the all the better but an accurate assessment is vital as a starting point. Regards
Click to expand...
Thanks so much for this! We are literally about to drive to see the dealer to find out what his initial reaction is and this is a great help. We have the van booked in next week with a specialist to get their opinion.

Thanks again

Mike

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Saxon66 said:
Hi

We bought an 10 year old CI motorhome 16 months ago from a local dealer. They assured us that there was a habitation check done at the time but no paperwork was offered proving this (I do have it in writing that they will conduct the necessary checks). I know that we should have demanded proof but we really wanted this van and that probably clouded our judgement at the time.

Fast forward to today and we have just had the van independently checked as part of a habitation service. It appears that we have substantial damp (to the point of the wood being rotted through) along both sides of the entire van and it will need extensive structural repairs to make it right. We have been advised that we should avoid driving it.

I intend to take it back to the dealership next week to see what their thoughts are on selling a vehicle that was obviously already well on its way to being worthless. Has anyone else suffered a similar experience and was it resolved? We've already talked to Citizens Advice and they have quoted the Consumer Rights Act 2015 that gives us 6 years of 'comeback' but I fear that this is going to turn into a nightmare.

It's not just the money but the emotional attachment that we've built up with the past years experiences with our kids. I'm truly gutted!

Cheers.
Click to expand...
Hi there, I do feel sorry for you even though the fact that no proof of the habitacion check should have started alarm bells ringing, however I am not sure that all is lost, being as you bought it from a dealer even if it did not come with any warranty, the dealer has a legal obligation to ensure that it is fit for purpose, this is clearly not the case, I would be inclined to seek further advice with a view to taking the matter to the small claims court, I would have thought the citizens advice would have advised you of this .
 
Saxon66 said:
Thanks so much for this! We are literally about to drive to see the dealer to find out what his initial reaction is and this is a great help. We have the van booked in next week with a specialist to get their opinion.

Thanks again

Mike
Click to expand...
so what did the dealer say yesterday?
 
Hi

Sorry for the late reply, we've been away (but not in the damp camper).

So, we took the van to the dealer we bought it off but before actually seeing the owner, we dropped by the workshop as I've always got on with the guys there. They were more than a little surprised by the condition of the van but I pointed out that some of the work they had previously done could have contributed to the damp problem and they helpfully agreed. We then headed to the offices and talked to the man who can make the decisions. Thankfully there was no immediate denial of responsibility and a general air of concern. Of course we did catch them on the hop with the problems and they have asked that we bring the van back to them next week so that they can conduct their own checks. I'd like to think that we will still get a reasonable response but fear that they will have hardened their approach by then.

In the meantime we are also taking it for another independent check by a damp specialist about 30 miles away. I want to build a case that can't be denied and we'll need to have as much information as we can get prior to throwing ourselves into any kind of battle.

It feels like a positive start but I'm not holding my breath yet.
 
Thanks for keeping us up to date and although it's early days it seems you're not getting a negative reaction - well just now anyway. Try to keep positive and firm about what you want but above all remain calm - you'll not get anything good once a slanging match starts.

We're all here rooting for you and ready to offer as much support as you want.

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