So this happened

[GlynJ78]

Hello, my name is Glyn and I’ve recently joined the forum.
Sadly, we have experienced a serious incident which occurred at the end of our recent holiday, whilst driving home in our 2018 Bessecar motorhome which we’ve had from new.

During the latter part of our journey, whilst travelling on the motorway, we noticed a strange smell coming from behind the front passenger seat. This was followed by smoke circulating around the back of the front seats. We immediately pulled over when safe to do so and discovered the source of the problem. Our grandchildren were sitting in two of the four seated area adjacent to the source of the smoke. We immediately evacuated the vehicle. I was able to ascertain the smoke was coming from the 12 volt fuse board, situated under the near side double seat, the 15 amp fridge fuse had melted the plastic casing and the smoke was excessive. I have photographs which clearly show what occurred but for some reason, I can’t load them on this thread. As you can imagine, we were very shaken. To enable us to continue on our journey I removed the remains of the fuse, whilst allowing the board to cool off.

I know many of you will share our concern. I’ve contacted the local dealer who in turn have contacted Swift. We need to have assurance that the motorhome fuse board is replaced and wiring checked prior to us using the van next, which is a booked holiday from 10th August 2022 however a wrangle over who pays for what will be inevitable I think…and of course from ordering the part to it being delivered is going to take months.

I have a theory that as the van is equipped with a tall/ bigger fridge than the previous model that the electrics may not have been upgraded to accommodate demand from the larger fridge. Has anyone else experienced anything like this or heard of it?
Thanks
Glyn

 

[gerry mcg]

Sorry to hear that.
Arcing of blade fuses can happen

Electrical Near Miss - Melted 80A fuse

I’m posting this for discussion as to what might have happened as a near miss on my electrical system following my B2B install I’m at a bit of a loss to be honest - so please feel free to discuss. this is an 80A fuse (bought from amazon? that i put in in place of a 50A fuse in the starter...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

And

Warning - 12v 20 / 30 amp inline fuse / circuit breaker arching.

If you have any of these fitted its worth checking them out. I fitted one of these between the positive feed from my solar panel and the MPPT late last year, I had to do some work on the solar panel and this seemed to be an ideal introduction so that i could isolate the panel in future...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

12v wiring issues can lead to fires.
Allocating blame here might be difficult

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

A bad experience indeed but I don't think you will find that Swift or your dealer will be paying for anything as no one will want to accept there are any design faults etc.Your fridge and associated electrics are some 5-6 years old and well out of warranty.
Have you added anything to the fuseboard or installed a B2b etc ?

 

[GlynJ78]

A bad experience indeed but I don't think you will find that Swift or your dealer will be paying for anything as no one will want to accept there are any design faults etc.Your fridge and associated electrics are some 5-6 years old and well out of warranty.
Have you added anything to the fuseboard or installed a B2b etc ?

Thanks and no, haven’t touched it. Van is 4 years old in September.

 

[Spriddler]

Welcome.
Very scary, Gary.
Odd that it has not been a problem in the past 4 years since new.
I would've expected the fuse to blow unless it was a faulty fuse or fuse holder or there was a short circuit within the board or before the fuse.
Obviously it needs investigation.
Do you need a Swift/Bessacar replacement board? I suspect they buy in a proprietary board and the same or a similar may be readily available.

(Idle thought from personal experience - the grandkids didn't drop some sort of metal object down there did they?)

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[Littlewheels]

Broken Link Removed


So pleased you all survived this incident, l agree with Gerry the allocation of blame could be difficult and leave an ever bigger scar. You and your grandchildren got through it and it’s best in the past.
A good auto electrical technician needs to check the whole system to give you peace of mind that it will not happen again.

 

[GlynJ78]

Welcome.
Very scary, Gary.
Odd that it has not been a problem in the past 4 years since new.
I would've expected the fuse to blow unless it was a faulty fuse or fuse holder or there was a short circuit within the board or before the fuse.
Obviously it needs investigation.
Do you need a Bessacar replacement board? I suspect they buy in a proprietary board and the same or a similar may be readily available.

(Idle thought from personal experience - the grandkids didn't drop some sort of metal object down there did they?)

Thanks, no, Grandkids don’t use that seat as not belted. Will need to look for a new board.

 

[Spriddler]

Hmm, with the photo available it looks as though a fuse has been arcing in a loosely gripping fuseholder.

(As a last resort to get away on hol you might get away with bypassing just the burned one with a separate and temporary fuse. I'd replace the adjacent damaged fuses and make sure that the heat hasn't loosened their holders).

 

[Wildbill]

Welcome to the forum sorry to hear of your problem best of luck.
Bill

 

[icantremember]

That looks to me to be a Sargent unit with a Swift logo added.
Sargent are a great company and I have found very helpful so may be worth a call. https://sargentltd.co.uk/

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[ambulancekidd]

 

[Andacami]

 

[Jimbohorlicks]

Thanks and no, haven’t touched it. Van is 4 years old in September.

Yes a miscalc ,was thinking of my van at 2017 and went the wrong way ,but even at 4 years If you check the warranties I doubt if your covered, but best of luck with having it fixed and just lucky to have noticed it in time to prevent any other damage or injury to the gkids.

 

[GeoffnDee]

as icantremember has said it is a Sargent electrical unit called Swift Command and the Sargent website has information about it and its operation between Swift/Sargent , in the Sargent support section. If you get in touch with Sargent they may be able to help as to why this may have happened. 01482 678981 www.sargentltd.co.uk

 

[Puddleduck]

Some brilliant advice whcih I have filed away in case I need it in the future

And now you know why so many people are happy to pay the subscription so they can get help so quickly.

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[Mike800966]

Hi Glyn, you could be right about the upgraded fridge . For 12v operation they have a small heater simar to the 240v operation but obviously draws more current. There was a posting on here very recently about fuses overheating. A slight electrical resistance in the fuse holder causes heat which then reduces the springiness of the holder which increases heating etc. Heat and plastics don't mix so you get a sort of thermal runaway situation. Check the wattage of the heater calculate the current and check the fuse rating was correct. Yes you could get away with bypassing the fuse way with a temporary one but the heating may well have damaged the nearby fuse holders.
Hope this all helps
Mike

 

[Rumour and Innuendo]

Thanks, no, Grandkids don’t use that seat as not belted. Will need to look for a new board.

We had an old Talbot that had a similar problem. Our fuses were under the seat and we smelt burning. I stopped the van and and located the source of the smell. It was the fridge fuse. Ours was a bank of four fuses, so we took out the overheating fuse, went to a motor accessory shop and bought four inline fuse holders. Rewired it in their car park. The guy in the shop said that spade fuses were a problem as they got older, so he sold us some tubular fuse holders. When home, I tidied it up, took out the old fuse bank and kept the van five more years with no problem.
We did look at all the spade fuse holders and checked they were good fit. Where we found a problem, I coated the fuse blades in solder. Seemed to cure the problem.

 

[Platelet]

You say that it’s the fridge circuit with a 15amp fuse? Are those drops of melted plastic or leds? a red drop of plastic which is 10amps? and amber (end one) which is 20amp, 15 “should” be blue.

 

[kingspeed]

Thanks, no, Grandkids don’t use that seat as not belted. Will need to look for a new board.

Hello,
Just a thought, that wiring system you have in your Bessacarr is built and designed by Sargent Electrical who are in Hull .
Sargent are very approachable and may well be able to help.
I have a 2018 Bessacarr 524, and have contacted them several times.
Regards Trevor.

 

[Lenny HB]

If it is the 150/160Lt fridge freezer a 15 amp fuse is a bit on the small side as the fridge can draw 14 to 15 amps on 12v. We have had 3 vans with the big FF they have always been fused at 20 amps.
I suspect that poor contact between the fuse & fuse holder has caused arcing which has caused the problem. Another source of problems like this are cheap Chinese fuses when replacing fuses epeccilly ones carrying higher current it is best to use branded fuses like Littlefuse etc.

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[MarionK]

Hi Glyn, you could be right about the upgraded fridge . For 12v operation they have a small heater simar to the 240v operation but obviously draws more current. There was a posting on here very recently about fuses overheating. A slight electrical resistance in the fuse holder causes heat which then reduces the springiness of the holder which increases heating etc. Heat and plastics don't mix so you get a sort of thermal runaway situation. Check the wattage of the heater calculate the current and check the fuse rating was correct. Yes you could get away with bypassing the fuse way with a temporary one but the heating may well have damaged the nearby fuse holders.
Hope this all helps
Mike

Drawing more current, should just have blown the fuse. Not sure if even haveing a 'too high' rated fuse would generate heat like that!

 

[gerry mcg]

There was some article someone linked to that suggested the fridge circuit on other models with similar power distribution boards was incorrectly fused at 15A rather than the designed 20A - leading to the 15A fuse running close to, but below blow current - resulting in overheating that does not happen with a 20A fuse

Electrical Near Miss - Melted 80A fuse

If you buy a clamp meter make sure it does DC current. A lot advertise as 'DC clamp meters' but they only measure DC volts. Here's the one me and Lenny use: UNI-T UT210E True RMS AC/DC Current Mini Clamp Meters w/ Capacitance Tester I got my sparkly new clamp meter yesterday I put on the...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

and here - similar mode of failure on similar power board wits 15A fuse in fridge circuit instead of designed 20A

Fuse melting.

Afternoon funsters, driving back from Knaresborough yesterday I could smell some burning plastic and after pulling over and checking I found a fuse slightly melted into the fuse holder in the ec600 power supply, it is fuse 13 on the list and powers the fridge D+. looking for answers to why this...

www.motorhomefun.co.uk

 

[gwyntaxi]

Hello, my name is Glyn and I’ve recently joined the forum.
Sadly, we have experienced a serious incident which occurred at the end of our recent holiday, whilst driving home in our 2018 Bessecar motorhome which we’ve had from new.

During the latter part of our journey, whilst travelling on the motorway, we noticed a strange smell coming from behind the front passenger seat. This was followed by smoke circulating around the back of the front seats. We immediately pulled over when safe to do so and discovered the source of the problem. Our grandchildren were sitting in two of the four seated area adjacent to the source of the smoke. We immediately evacuated the vehicle. I was able to ascertain the smoke was coming from the 12 volt fuse board, situated under the near side double seat, the 15 amp fridge fuse had melted the plastic casing and the smoke was excessive. I have photographs which clearly show what occurred but for some reason, I can’t load them on this thread. As you can imagine, we were very shaken. To enable us to continue on our journey I removed the remains of the fuse, whilst allowing the board to cool off.

I know many of you will share our concern. I’ve contacted the local dealer who in turn have contacted Swift. We need to have assurance that the motorhome fuse board is replaced and wiring checked prior to us using the van next, which is a booked holiday from 10th August 2022 however a wrangle over who pays for what will be inevitable I think…and of course from ordering the part to it being delivered is going to take months.

I have a theory that as the van is equipped with a tall/ bigger fridge than the previous model that the electrics may not have been upgraded to accommodate demand from the larger fridge. Has anyone else experienced anything like this or heard of it?
Thanks
Glyn

That 15amp fuse sounds a bit low for the large fridge/freezer, I would have thought it should be more like 20/25amp the large F/F draws quite a hefty current.... just a thought.

 

[bluebirds]

Hello, my name is Glyn and I’ve recently joined the forum.
Sadly, we have experienced a serious incident which occurred at the end of our recent holiday, whilst driving home in our 2018 Bessecar motorhome which we’ve had from new.

During the latter part of our journey, whilst travelling on the motorway, we noticed a strange smell coming from behind the front passenger seat. This was followed by smoke circulating around the back of the front seats. We immediately pulled over when safe to do so and discovered the source of the problem. Our grandchildren were sitting in two of the four seated area adjacent to the source of the smoke. We immediately evacuated the vehicle. I was able to ascertain the smoke was coming from the 12 volt fuse board, situated under the near side double seat, the 15 amp fridge fuse had melted the plastic casing and the smoke was excessive. I have photographs which clearly show what occurred but for some reason, I can’t load them on this thread. As you can imagine, we were very shaken. To enable us to continue on our journey I removed the remains of the fuse, whilst allowing the board to cool off.

I know many of you will share our concern. I’ve contacted the local dealer who in turn have contacted Swift. We need to have assurance that the motorhome fuse board is replaced and wiring checked prior to us using the van next, which is a booked holiday from 10th August 2022 however a wrangle over who pays for what will be inevitable I think…and of course from ordering the part to it being delivered is going to take months.

I have a theory that as the van is equipped with a tall/ bigger fridge than the previous model that the electrics may not have been upgraded to accommodate demand from the larger fridge. Has anyone else experienced anything like this or heard of it?
Thanks
Glyn

Hello Glyn. I got a autotrail Cheyenne 2009 and it’s got a small box sargentEM50A with fuses for electric step 12v battery charging and 12v fridge freezer 160litres etc Behind driver seat. Same thing happened 15 amp fuses melted to nothing I phoned Sargent they said try 20amp fuse still melted so my brother fitted an in-line fuse 20A instead so far it hasn’t melted but the wires get hot so I have ordered another em50 fuse box £160 hopefully it will solve my problem. But for now I leave fridge turned off when driving no problem. If you got crash sensor gas regulator you can run fridge on gas when driving.

 

[Lenny HB]

If you got crash sensor gas regulator you can run fridge on gas when driving.

No you can't fridge has a naked flame against construction & use regulations.

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[BrianS]

This photo is of a blown 20a fuse on the circuit board of the Thetford N3141 3-way fridge just to let you know you are not alone!

The fuse and the surrounding area of the PCB and wire feed from the van got very hot as you can see from the photos.

 

[Platelet]

Hello Glyn. I got a autotrail Cheyenne 2009 and it’s got a small box sargentEM50A with fuses for electric step 12v battery charging and 12v fridge freezer 160litres etc Behind driver seat. Same thing happened 15 amp fuses melted to nothing I phoned Sargent they said try 20amp fuse still melted so my brother fitted an in-line fuse 20A instead so far it hasn’t melted but the wires get hot so I have ordered another em50 fuse box £160 hopefully it will solve my problem. But for now I leave fridge turned off when driving no problem. If you got crash sensor gas regulator you can run fridge on gas when driving.

Sorry but that is really bad advice from an auto electrician. You can go down in rating but never up. If there is a short at the lower it will blow, if there is a short at the higher it MAY overheat, it’s also dependant on the wire thickness. Is there a relay in the circuit?