Smart alternator or stupid one ?

[roadwarrior]

Having just bought a autosleeper winchcombe with a lazy cab aircon, (blower loses power after an hour, but picks back up if you turn off aircon for a few mins and turn on aircon again ... I had thought the alternator was at fault and had another fitted. NOW - They have fitted a smart alternator, and of course it's not charging the auxiliary battery, but I didn't notice as a few days later I set off for France (still there)
My question is this ? Do I go back and say oy you fitted the wrong type of alternator or not ? I accept the smart one is supposed to be better but it will I actually get better fuel consumption for all my wallet efforts? I know I would have to buy a battery to battery charger which included my solar panel charging and that's a few more hundred quid and I still have to fix the blower problem. Also a little confused about smart alternators buggering up some battery types as I read that some can't take the higher voltage it puts out in bursts. Gentlemen ?

 

[poppycamper]

Intrigued by your situation... did you have "smart" alternator fitted originally? Reading your post I would say no..
If not, is it actually possible to fit a "smart" alternator to a "non smart" vehicle.
I Will follow this thread with interest!!

 

[Nanniemate]

Having just bought a autosleeper winchcombe with a lazy cab aircon, (blower loses power after an hour, but picks back up if you turn off aircon for a few mins and turn on aircon again ... I had thought the alternator was at fault and had another fitted. NOW - They have fitted a smart alternator, and of course it's not charging the auxiliary battery, but I didn't notice as a few days later I set off for France (still there)
My question is this ? Do I go back and say oy you fitted the wrong type of alternator or not ? I accept the smart one is supposed to be better but it will I actually get better fuel consumption for all my wallet efforts? I know I would have to buy a battery to battery charger which included my solar panel charging and that's a few more hundred quid and I still have to fix the blower problem. Also a little confused about smart alternators buggering up some battery types as I read that some can't take the higher voltage it puts out in bursts. Gentlemen ?

You may find some of the ladies maybe helpful

 

[movan]

The gentlemen may not know, or they may argue amongst themselves... but there are many knowledgeable women on batteries such as Maz and irnbru.

 

[Lenny HB]

If it didn't have smart alternator before I would definitely go back and insist they fit the correct alternator as it could cause other problems as I doubt if the have fitted the other bits like the shunt to insure the alternator works correctly.

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[rod_vw]

Very unlikely to have a smart alternator retro fitted as it's operation is dependent on many other things outside the actual alternator.
As for not charging the leisure batteries, if the smart alternator and 'stop - start' etc. are all original then if you only have a basic split charge system then the leisure batteries will only charge to about 80% if you have a modern battery to battery system then they should be being fully charged by the engine 12v system.

 

[roadwarrior]

May I humbly apologize to the ladies and restart this with Ladies and gentlemen, your thoughts and advice please.
Ok so, yes I suspect I had a conventional alternator before as it charged the aux battery and now it does not and the voltage is different now - starts at 14.4 but quickly drops to around 12.5 but also flies upto 15 v briefly too,
I'm guessing when the van comes off load now.
After a day of driving it is still 12.5v now instead of around 13..6 as it was. I now have to rely on the solar panel to push it up to it's more normal 13.6

 

[roadwarrior]

Rod, I don't have stopstart, and I dont have battery to battery charger either, as far as I can see I have Sargent 3 way charger as fitted when new in 2016.

 

[roadwarrior]

I am well aware this in not right hence me asking for advice , do I go back to standard alternator or do I now in invest in the smart alternator concept and get a b2b charger and modernise it all ? Is it worth it? I like the idea of 100 % charged for instance, but does it actually help with consumption or is it theory waffle ?

 

[Bolti]

May I humbly apologize to the ladies and restart this with Ladies and gentlemen, your thoughts and advice please.
Ok so, yes I suspect I had a conventional alternator before as it charged the aux battery and now it does not and the voltage is different now - starts at 14.4 but quickly drops to around 12.5 but also flies upto 15 v briefly too,
I'm guessing when the van comes off load now.
After a day of driving it is still 12.5v now instead of around 13..6 as it was. I now have to rely on the solar panel to push it up to it's more normal 13.6

Thats how my conventional alternator was operating before it konked out in France.

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[poppycamper]

I am well aware this in not right hence me asking for advice , do I go back to standard alternator or do I now in invest in the smart alternator concept and get a b2b charger and modernise it all ? Is it worth it? I like the idea of 100 % charged for instance, but does it actually help with consumption or is it theory waffle ?

roadwarrior although I do not have a definitive answer to your problem my instincts would be to go back to the original set up (alternator) as I still don't see how it would be possible to just fit a "smart" alternator without making other changes...
I am however prepared to be proven wrong... as I said above I am following this with interest.

 

[Nanniemate]

May I humbly apologize to the ladies and restart this with Ladies and gentlemen, your thoughts and advice please.
Ok so, yes I suspect I had a conventional alternator before as it charged the aux battery and now it does not and the voltage is different now - starts at 14.4 but quickly drops to around 12.5 but also flies upto 15 v briefly too,
I'm guessing when the van comes off load now.
After a day of driving it is still 12.5v now instead of around 13..6 as it was. I now have to rely on the solar panel to push it up to it's more normal 13.6

I'm sure the ladies will forgive you have enough on your mind

 

[autorouter]

Intrigued by your situation... did you have "smart" alternator fitted originally? Reading your post I would say no..
If not, is it actually possible to fit a "smart" alternator to a "non smart" vehicle.

I don't really know, but it sounds more like a software/firmware problem than a hardware problem. I can imagine that the electronic control units in the vehicle might all be the same, and they have different options set for the two alternator types. After all, they fit the same wiring looms to everything, and just ignore any unwanted wires.

 

[roadwarrior]

Autorouter, sadly not , my research so far while I languish in France, is that a smart alternator needs a battery to battery charger, as a smart charger does not charge an aux battery as well. Bit of a backward step to me.. and so b2b charger literally straddles between the two batteries and charges up the aux battery. Ironically at 13.6v . As I understand it this all about the relentless drive for saving the planet.

 

[roadwarrior]

Poppy, my instincts agree with you, but I am exploring the options as I do like the idea of 100% charge and maybe better fuel consumption - the sprinter engine is not exactly frugal at worst at 25 mpg, but it is a lovely engine and twin turbo

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[rod_vw]

Poppy, my instincts agree with you, but I am exploring the options as I do like the idea of 100% charge and maybe better fuel consumption - the sprinter engine is not exactly frugal at worst at 25 mpg, but it is a lovely engine and twin turbo

I think I am correct in saying that a certain indication of a vehicle with smart alternator technology is a module attached on or very close to the -ve engine battery terminal which monitors the battery status. Again if I'm correct that battery is under the cab floor in front of the left front seat on your Sprinter.
You may find all the appropriate manuals for your vehicle at Broken Link Removed which may help you convert the charging system if you wish to do it.

 

[Raul]

Smart alternator works in smart mode, if ecu is programmed for one. Also it will see it if data cable is plugged in the shunt near battery -ve terminal. If you unplug the data, which is your case, you don’t have one, and ecu does not know about it, the smart alternator will continue to work as all other alternators. Your problem is not alternator, maybe something else. You can test for voltage on idle and high revs to confirm voltage.
In fact some have actually pulled the plug on the shunt to disable the smart functions on smart equipped alternators, and fall back on conventional operation. It’s done often on cars.

 

[autorouter]

A smart alternator is indeed about using otherwise wasted energy to charge the starter battery. The alternator switches off during normal accelerating and cruising driving. When you want to reduce speed, by lifting off the pedal or actively braking, the alternator cuts in to provide extra engine load, assisting the slowing-down, using the unwanted energy to charge the starter battery. As part of this idea, the starter battery can't take in unwanted energy if it's already full. So the alternator cuts out in normal driving so that there is always some space left to take the unwanted energy.

Unfortunately the simple method of charging the leisure battery is to connect it straight to the starter battery with a relay. If the starter battery doesn't get fully charged, then neither will the leisure battery.

The solution is to use a B2B charger, which takes power from the alternator in the same way that the lights, wipers and fans do, and gives out a voltage optimised for charging the leisure battery. This is a good idea for MHs with a non-smart alternator, but essential if there's a smart alternator.

 

[Spriddler]

The gentlemen may not know, or they may argue amongst themselves... but there are many knowledgeable women on batteries such as Maz and irnbru.

 

[roadwarrior]

I'm beginning to realise I'm totally out of my depth here, I looked at the batteries, the aux batteries seem to be 2 small 12v batteries under the the passenger seat and a huge starter battery under the passenger floor, on which was a collection of gismos on both terminals the like of which I have never seen before, so in conclusion, and coupled with the huge belt going round the engine and driving the alternator I conclude I have a smart alternator. Given that the garage would not have changed the pulley system I must conclude I'm an idiot and out of my depth. So.... Why has the aux battery stopped charging since the new alternator ?
A look in the AS handbook tells me the charger fuse is 25amps and fitted internally to the psu... So where is the psu ? And while I'm still at school - what's a shunt ?

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[Raul]

Google smart alternator shunt, and have a look at the pictures, if yours has it on the -ve post of the starter, then you have a smart alternator.
A shunt it’s a resistor that can measure current and calculate power, energy that goes trough it.

 

[Wildbill]

If it didn't have smart alternator before I would definitely go back and insist they fit the correct alternator as it could cause other problems as I doubt if the have fitted the other bits like the shunt to insure the alternator works correctly.

As Lenny HB says go back and get the proper one fitted problems with surging could be a problem burnt out wiper motors or have controller as Lenny says probibly no shunt fitted
Bill

 

[roadwarrior]

I'm sorry boys and girls I have laid a false trail for you all as it turns out the alternator is appropriate, it is a smart one and the psu is fine for it, so my actual problem is as experienced in an earlier post elsewhere by another gent. So, Everything works as it should except for ....and I think I have 2 separate problems, the aux battery is not being charged when the engine is running, but the fridge works fine when driving, and the blower fan loses blower force after a while when using the aircon at full cold, I have had the aircon checked and that is fine. I have discovered if I turn off the aircon the blower returns to full force, so I rest the aircon for a few mins and turn it back on again and it works again. Neither of these problems would have been apparent in short journeys of blighty of course, but long hot journeys in hot france are different .
Before I bought this van I had never heard of smart alternators and so I panicked somewhat when in a foreign land and not a clue what was going on. So , I will return the van to the garage upon my return to England but if it's something silly like a fuse somewhere I would love to know where to look and at least fix one of these problems.

 

[GeoffnDee]

If your Motorhome is fitted with a Sargent PSU there may also be an separate small unit marked EM50 that could have a fuse in it relating to the split charging.

 

[roadwarrior]

If your Motorhome is fitted with a Sargent PSU there may also be an separate small unit marked EM50 that could have a fuse in it relating to the split charging.

That sounds very interesting any idea where I mind find it ?

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[rwg]

If you have a smart alternator then the fan speed will vary (probably quite noticeably) as you drive. When you take your foot off the accelerator the alternator will increase its output, possibly up to about 15v, making the fan run faster. Pop your foot down again and the alternator will drop to 12.5v or so to let the engine power go to acceleration and the fan speeds drop.

This effect might be part of what you are noticing with the fan running better or worse at times.

Cheers,

Robin

 

[GeoffnDee]

On Autotrails the EM50 is normally behind the drivers seat but I do not know where it is on Autosleepers but its location may be shown in the handbook as the fridge and other fuses are also in it. If you go to www.sargentltd.co.uk you can see what it looks like in their shop (fuse box and control units) which may help you locate it ,if fitted.

 

[autorouter]

If your Motorhome is fitted with a Sargent PSU there may also be an separate small unit marked EM50 that could have a fuse in it relating to the split charging.

Worth checking that, even with a smart alternator and B2B. The EM50 might be used to power the B2B instead of the split charge relay.

 

[roadwarrior]

Ok found an em45 under the bench seat 20 amp for battery but nothing for splilt charging, but under the passenger seat I found two small batteries wired together and a heath Robinson inline fuse joining them that needs looking at when I get home.

 

[GeoffnDee]

EM45 are sometimes used instead of EM50 units on Mercedes ,, is the 20amp battery fuse ok ?